Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

I disagree it is dramatic.

Yes babies cry and don't know night from day at first but the whole usual checks of temperature, nappy, comfort, wind, feed etc don't make a difference to some babies that scream all night. So the poster was perfectly valid in suggesting there might be a medical issue.

And the usual medical issues can mostly be dealt with. And actually at this point, the OP would probably be grateful for something that can be treated in a straightforward way that will make their baby more comfortable.

My first born screamed all night and had dairy allergies and silent reflux. I was relieved when doctors finally listened, diagnosed and prescribed.

@Jennifer48 you mentioned hiccups.
Obviously hiccups are normal but if there are lots and he's not burping, it could be silent reflux.

Very simply, this is where the stomach valve hasn't developed yet and means the acid after a feed is travelling back up, and is painful. Think sick burps/hot spicy burps.

This would mean he would hate lying down, goes backwards after a feed (so in discomfort rather than fed contently and sleepy) and a lot more crying than other babies.

There should be loads of info about this but conscious you're unable to do much at the minute so top tips (bearing in mind it's been over a decade since my babies were born so if anything sounds against the latest safety measures don't do it!)

• Bouncy chair with soothing vibrating setting so he's upright - a god send for your showers, loo or even to get some sleep at night. Not recommended for more than two hours but we ignored that.

• Hold upright, have him facing you after a feed and twist him slightly to see if he burps naturally. I would sing in my son's face (poor thing) to almost distract him from burps. If I patted his back I think he withheld it (as the acid can be painful).

• Hold upright as long as possible after feed.

• Tilt his cot so it's on a downward slope. Books under the legs of the cot on one end (head end).
• Baby sling to keep him upright and so you can actually get the smallest of things done.

If you think it is silent reflux, get a doctor to listen to you and prescribe meds. Ideally skip the Gaviscon etc and go straight to Omeprazole.

Xx

My baby was like this. The night I fell asleep sitting in a chair while holding her was the night I knew something had to change. Thankfully she only dropped to the breastfeeding pillow sitting on my lap as it was a recliner and my legs were up.

what worked for me was cosleeping. Very specifically, starting the night cosleeping and nursing to sleep. I would lay on my side and breastfeed in that position. Baby would be laying on the bed, but nuzzled against me and milk drunk so would fall asleep. I could then shift back a bit to get into a safer sleeping position. Inevitably, baby would wiggle over closer to me, but I was better positioned at that point so it worked.

I also reali3: my baby needed to be on a different schedule than the books said. If I fought for a standard bedtime we were both miserable. We shifted to going to bed about midnight every night and suddenly she was so much happier. We would sleep until 10 each morning with some drowsy nursing sessions in the night. Eventually I got her on a more traditional schedule, but since it wasn’t necessary in those early months, accepting what she needed and keeping odd hours really helped.

Yes. This is probably the best advice on the whole thread

I had this- survival for me looked like:
-my partner holding the baby downstairs for two or three hours at night so I could at least get a tiny bit of sleep

-cosleeping where I was on my side in a c shape around my baby (couldnt sleep well like this, but it’s safe if your mattress isn’t soft, there are no loose covers and you’re breastfeeding. See the safe sleep seven) At least I was lying down.

-very controversially, and I’m not reccomending it, but my baby had severe reflux and I realised the only way my baby would sleep was either upright on someone, or on his tummy at nap times while I watched him. My sleep deprivation soon got so bad it became very dangerous for me to hold him at night as I was catching myself falling asleep, so I had to just put him down on his tummy. It made me so anxious so my sleep was still shit, but at least he was safer than me dropping him. I told midwives, doctors, anyone at any appointment and they understood it was my last resort and no one told me off or told me to keep trying to get him to sleep on his back (which I did try for the first few weeks and it always triggered him to scream and writhe in pain within 10mins).

-edited to say, like previous posters, also had to accept my baby like to sleep deepest between 1am and 1pm, leaning into that routine helped to

How are things going? Any improvement yet? ❤️

Thank you for everyone for responding. Thank you for asking @PregnantPumpkin Things are still very difficult. My older sister said she thinks my baby has got his days and nights mixed up and I'm so worried my breastmilk isn't doing much for him!. My baby feeds twelve times a day in each breast (a feed can last between ten minutes and one hour) but is always ravenous afterwards: how is that possible? so I topped it up with 70ml of Cow & Gate around 8-8:30 pm.
After that, he fed from from each breast a couple of times each and his eyes closed- tentatively, I wrapped him up put him in the pram, and my mother said I should go to bed to try to get some rest. As so often happens- although I only found this out when my mother told me this morning- his eyes had opened in the 30 seconds it took me to reach the top of the stairs to my bedroom. I didnt know it at the time. What perturbed me was that my instincts were that he should take a pacifier and told my mother that. She thinks it's "cruel" to give a three week old baby a pacifier if he's hungry. I agree- but I didn't think, after all that he'd had, that he could still be hungry! So when the baby opened his eyes, my mum gave him another 70ml bottle of Cow & Gate and that, plus her pushing him gently in his pram, was the only thing that made him sleep in his pram for about three hours . I'm annoyed because I feel like my milk must be water because it doesn't settle or satisfy my baby. This is really upsetting me.
I thought I knew his hunger cues- particularly because during his last breastfeed before I went to bed at two o'clock this morning, he was sucking on the breast seemingly ojt of habit/to comfort himmself, so I thought the pacifier would be OK. I don't agree with my mother's opinion that had pacifier it's cruel at that age but I am annoyed he was still hungry after so much breastfeeding and it wasn't the pacifier he needed anyway he is clearly ravenously hungry.
Even after three hours sleep, I was still shattered. The days are manageable, the nights are simply horrendous- physically and emotionally.

Lots of newborn babies are given pacifiers - they're definitely not cruel! As I posted earlier I had to stop bf with my first for my own mental health and she was just as healthy and bright as my next 3dc who were exclusively bf. Dd2 is contemplating having her second and is stressed about the bf as she hated it but feels that she needs to give number 2 the same as dc1. Good luck!

you will get there op.
it is still early days,
glad to hear your mother has got over her fear of giving him a bottle at least

i am not keen on dummies for breast fed babies but it is not my choice,
it is your choice

I think at this point for your own sanity you’d be better off just giving him formula and if you want to carry on breastfeeding perhaps either stick him on for 10 minutes before a bottle or express so that you can actually see what he’s getting . At least then you would know whether the sleeping is down to being hungry or something else .

To be honest OP I was shit at breastfeeding and it made me feel terrible at the time. My two only put weight on when fed formula, I took too much notice of mumsnet didn’t top up dd2 and she ended up in hospital.

They are now in their teens and the breastfed babies of the other mums who made me feel bad are vaping, have anxiety, anorexia. ADHD, aren’t that great at school etc etc. It’s pretty meh in the end breastfeeding.

My son fed constantly and it was because his latch wasn’t great. I’d suggest a BF clinic or the midwife to check the latch. My son fed up to 18 times a day in the first week or so annd this wasn’t normal and was because we needed to fix the way he was feeding. I also mistook the cues, I thought every fuss was hunger, but actually it was often tired/bored who knows. So encouraging him to go a little longer between feeds (eg going for long walks to stretch the time between feeds maybe even by 10 mins to start with) so he was properly hungry rather than snacking, plus improving his latch really helped. It was soooo hard in those early weeks and we did mix feed after I got mastisis when he was 4 weeks but only did one bottle a day and bf the rest of the time. Later on I was so glad I kept the bf up as it’s cheaper and sooooo easy later on.

whatever routine you find that works for you is just fine though xxx

I really think you need some breastfeeding support. Whilst it’s true that breastfed babies do feed a lot, including comfort feeding, sometimes a lot of very long feeds can be a sign of a poor latch that’s resulting in inefficient milk transfer. Please look up your local breastfeeding support group and go along, you can have a good chat and everyone there will completely understand what you’re dealing with.

Please, please don’t doubt your milk, or milk supply. There is a growth spurt at 3 weeks which makes babies extra fussy and ravenous, and giving formula top ups at this point will stop your body increasing your supply. I know your Mum means well but by giving him formula she’s actually undermining your ability to breastfeed.

It’s been said several times on this thread, but stop trying to put him down in his pram or Moses basket to sleep. He’s three weeks old, he’s going to wake up everytime you put him down, guaranteed. Babies need contact, they need to be held, they need to be close to us. It doesn’t have to be you holding him, your DH or Mum can burp him and cuddle him to sleep, but as soon as they put him down he will wake up. Not because there’s anything wrong with him, but because he’s a 3 week old baby, it’s normal for them to wake up if you put them down.

Set your bed up to safely cosleep, even for daytime, a nap for both of you in the afternoon can make a huge difference. Your sister is right, he doesn’t know the difference between night and day, but again, this is normal. No baby dies at three weeks old. Cluster feeding in the evening helps babies start to sleep longer at night, so again, giving formula at 8pm will interfere with that.

Finally, if you are going to ignore my advice to stop giving him formula, make sure anyone giving him formula is using paced bottle feeding. Have him reclined at 45° or laying on his side, and hold the bottle horizontal, so the test is only half full of milk. This way he has to actively suck to get milk out. The traditional hold with baby on his back and the bottle tipped up results in milk dripping out even if he isn’t sucking, meaning he has no choice but to drink it all. Babies drain bottle like this not because they are starving, but because they have no choice because the milk is flowing into their mouth and if they don’t swallow it they’ll choke!

No baby does *at 3 weeks old. Holy shit, awful typo I’m sorry

*know the difference between day and night.

Please find a local breastfeeding support group, I think you would benefit from some face to face specialist help if you want to keep breastfeeding; you'll meet other mums there and you won't feel so alone. This all sounds currently within the realms of normal, just really really hard.

Thank you all. For what it's worth,I do not want to give him a pacifier or formula. I am simply at my wit's end. Neither of my sisters gave formula or a pacifier. They exclusively breastfed so this doesn't feel normal to me.

I have slept three hours , in scattered snatches, in the last 48 hours.

Please try and find a breastfeeding group! They can check your latch and there will be other women there in your position (lack of sleep) that will be helpful. Every group I’ve been to has been really supportive and most women there with newborn babies are in various states of dishevelment (I put off going because it was so difficult to get out of the house let alone make myself presentable).

@Jennifer48as others have said please don’t doubt your milk. It’s completely normal for 3 week old newborn babies to breastfeed constantly, especially in the evening. It’s worth remembering that breastfed babies don’t always feed because they’re hungry. Sometimes they’re seeking comfort, sometimes they just want a snack, sometimes it’s to be close to you. It’s completely natural and normal. Have you had your baby weighed recently? If he’s following his centile than that should help put your mind at ease.

It honestly won’t be your milk. Babies cluster feed, particularly in the evenings. Also more throughout growth spurts and development changes.
your sister is partly right about nights and days being mixed up. Babies aren’t born with a circadian rhythm, it takes time to develop.

Understanding why my baby was the way he was helped me get through it. I didn’t get more sleep but I understood the developmental process. It isn’t you, it isn’t your baby.

I'm saying this kindly, OP - but you have just said you're at your wits end, and there are still options for you to try that can help. You need to consider your mental health and tbh I don't understand what the issue is with pacifiers / dummies? They are recommended for reducing risk of SIDS and they can keep a baby settled when they want to suckle for comfort rather than just for hunger. I don't know any babies that had any issues with breastfeeding due to dummy use. I exclusively breastfed both my babies and my first was similar to yours - I was only getting about 45 mins of solid sleep in a stint. She always wanted to feed and never took a dummy. Wouldn't be put down. my second, was also exclusively breastfed and she also took a dummy. She slept sodding amazingly, and the dummy helped settle her off to sleep too, whereas with my first I'd had to rock her every single time or she screamed.

Why don't you just try it for one night- and see if it makes any difference with the length of sleep?
If it doesn't work, then no harm done - or if you still feel the same way about it after then you don't have to continue use.

As everyone is telling you, it is normal for babies to feed 10 times a day, perhaps even more. They cluster feed to build supply. This is normal. Your baby is doing exactly what it should be doing.
My 2.5 year old feeds 10+ times a day, a new born baby will need even more little and often. That's just how new borns are designed. I remember mine feeding for 8 hours straight one day.

It is a horrific, sudden change to have little to no sleep. But you will survive it. Soon it will be a distant memory.
I had awful anxiety over sleep when mine was that age, and post-natal depression on top all linked with sleep. I wanted to give my baby back. But it was over as quickly as it began, and now 2.5 years later it really is a distant memory. Mine had allergies and terrible itchy skin. He woke 10+ times a night until he was 2.

Babies also have no idea about night and day. They sleep on and off, day and night. How you feed won't make that any difference to that. You have to adapt in this early months to survive.

Please please please reach out to a breastfeeding support group or IBCLC. You need support from professionals, to help you understand that what you are going through is normal and also to help you assess whether you can make any changes to improve things for you and baby.

Mine is 10 weeks now and 100% didn't know night from day, being told it's normal doesn't help in the moment but if it gives you any hope the last four or so weeks he seems to have worked it out. We were going to bed around 2am for the first few weeks so that the nights didn't feel so long for me if I was up all night, sometimes it would be 7am before he'd go to sleep then we'd manage to sleep til around midday, now we go to bed about 8/9pm ish so I hope that gives you some hope. Have you tried your little one in a reclined bouncy chair, my boy is still velcro in the day but I tried him in one a couple of days ago (because I was desperate!) and he actually settles quite well in it - not a safe sleep surface but if you can get your mum to watch while you grab an hour that could help.

Please look at safe cosleeping. It really is a game changer. Keep him close, doesn’t have to be you, let him sleep in his dad’s arms, in his grandmas arms, he just needs contact to be settled. Then you can get some sleep.