Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

Are you definitely getting his wind up? When you wind him the way you described does he burp? There's other techniques to do it if that isn't working for you. Just look on youtube and I'm sure there'll be some demonstrations.

Oh it’s so tough. Solidarity as my first was exactly like this.

Try just making a big bottle and see how much he drinks. It’s just easier than doing little amounts and having to constantly make more. After a while you’ll see how much he drinks as an average and just make that plus a bit just in case he’s especially hungry.

when you wind him, does he burp? I had to really thump my firstborn! (Obviously not enough to hurt him but much harder than other people did it). Not settling even when held does sound rather like wind…

lastly, are you feeding/winding/etc in a nice quiet/dark room? For some reason it took me ages to figure out that my baby was easily overstimulated. Just being in the living room with the tv on low was too much for him.

ultimately, I know it’s hard, but no harm will come to him if you need to just put him down and have a breather. NHS 111 actually reminds you of this when you ring about a sick baby that won’t stop crying (I had to ring them last week).

A lactation consultant at the hospital assured me he does not have tongue tie.

@Jennifer48 as part of establishing your supply your baby will need to be feeding almost continuously at times. The feeding stimulates your body to make the right milk for the next day. So giving formula messes that up, as your body doesn't then always make enough and so then baby isn’t satisfied and you are in a vicious circle. My DD once did pretty much 7 hours straight one night which was absolutely ridiculous but it was what she needed. That’s when people get all
muddled and persuaded they “don’t have enough milk” but it is normal to cluster feed.

Have you has any luck with feeding lying down? Forget the sleeping part, focus on being able to do the safe lying down feeding part.

And you absolutely can and must put them down to go to the loo or have a shower or get a drink. I used to put DD in a bouncer in the bathroom with me for showers but in a safe space in the bedroom is also fine for short periods.

I can absolutely guarantee you it will not be like this for months. Each stage has its challenges but the first 6 weeks is the period where it is hardest in sleep/feeding terms. This is not forever. You are doing a great job.

It might be worth checking again… we also got signed off at the hospital then a specialist said she had it! And we had all the same signs… constant feeding but always hungry

Poor you, OP. I think it's really important that you share your low mood with the midwives/health visitor (not sure who you have visiting you at this stage)

As others have said, it's fine to just put him somewhere safe so you can go to the loo and shower. Yes, it's horrible hearing them cry, but for a few mins it's fine while you take care of your needs. It's better that you take a breather and go back to him when you're calm and have had a moment.

Can't remember if i've seen this in the thread, but can you baby wear him during the day so you're handsfree and can get on with things. Even just getting out for a short walk in the fresh air will do wonders for you.

When your mum/sister is there, use that time to sleep - everything else can wait!

Discuss sleeping with him propped up on you with your HV. She might have some advice on how to make it safe in your bed if he's absolutely refusing to lie down on his own (as mine did)

And you decided to have another one after having a first baby like this? 😄 Brave woman!

In answer to your questions: I can't express enough milk to make a nice big bottle at the moment. Plus he's on my breast almost all the time so I don't get enough time to pump more than once or max. twice a day.

He doesn't really burp when I wind him. My sister told me just ro rub his back vigorously, not to pat with the flat of the hand. He does quite often have hiccups.

We're in a dark room at night - just a bedside lamp, no overhead light and no T.V.

@Jennifer48 I don't have anymore advice than what's been already suggested here but just keep coming back on here overnight if you've got time but aren't able to get any sleep, hopefully it'll make you feel less alone. I found it really lonely overnight, one of us will be awake to reply I'm sure. It really will get better but I know it feels hopeless at this stage ❤️

@Jennifer48 oh goodness, you really are having a tough time. No wonder you feel like you can’t go on like this. Sending you virtual hugs. Is he settled when he’s on the boob? Or is he flailing his angry little fists about?

Get assessed for tongue tie, see an IBCLC if you can afford it.
Baby may have allergy, to milk which is why giving him formula isn't helping. Maybe try cutting milk out your diet for a few weeks to see if that helps.

Just let him sleep on you rather than trying to lay him down - do you have a sling? Mine never slept in the next to me or pram until he was much older. At this age they need to be connected to you. Lean into that.
Chest sleeping or c-curl (after about 3-4 months I had to hold my baby on his side as he wouldn't sleep on his back, after speaking to health visitor).

It is also completely normal for a newborn baby to cry this much. He's not even a month old. He doesn't understand night or day, etc.

Have a read of breastfeeding and the fourth trimester by Lucy Webber? Get it if you don't already.

The first months are HARD!! They are such a shock to the system. You just have to prioritise giving the baby what they need so minimise the crying and upset. You'll have a shitty time for a few months, but it does end/you get used to it. I promise.

Me too. Couple of midwives and the hospital’s BF counsellor all said no tongue tie.

14 verrrrry long weeks later .. private lactation consultant said tongue tie. Oral surgeon agreed and cut it.

What are feeds like? Does your baby look like he’s got a big mouthful of boob or just perched on the nipple? Does he ever come off half way through feeds and have to be relatched? To remove him during a feed, would it be difficult, is there a suction effect - eg if you pull him away slowly does it pull on your nipple or does he just come off (and get cross!) Any clicking sounds? Squashed nipples?

I didn’t know what a good latch looked and felt like with my first. It didn’t become painful for weeks so I thought it was fine (then it got very very sore).

OP I lay on my side and slept whilst baby fed on the breast. I got lots of sleep this way and baby fell asleep and stayed there too.

Lullaby trust tell you how to do it safely and is better than you falling asleep with baby in your arms

oh yes… if your baby can’t latch side lying so all this side co sleeping advice doesn’t work… that’s also a sign of possible tongue tie

Did she put on gloves and feel around in his mouth?

Can you get to a local breastfeeding support group? Preferably one run by an IBCLC. I think some help checking his latch so you know he's feeding well and getting enough, plus just being able to talk to other new mums is so, so helpful.

Hey OP I work with babies & have seen loads of tongue ties, if you PM me a photo I can tell you for sure. In regards to the winding him - try sitting him up as tall & straight as you can and circling him rather than patting. He may have reflux - these aren't the normal baby cries they scream constantly & it is so draining. I obviously can't diagnose this but the reluctance to lie flat is a big sign he is not comfortable.

Respectfully, a tongue tie cannot be diagnosed visually. It requires a full tongue movement assessment.

I'm a lactation consultant and we can only say to someone we believe their baby would benefit from being seen by someone who is qualified to divide a tie. Even after we feel for their tongue movement, it is not up to us to say for sure.

I have seen surgeons surprised at how restricted a tie was after cutting it as they couldn't tell when they felt it.

So while I can absolutely see a tongue and think it needs investigation, a tongue cannot be checked "for sure" in a photo.

I do divide them. You can absolutely see a tongue tie whether it is minor or major.

You can’t see a posterior tie from a photo, surely

You can't. You can't tell if a frenulum even needs dividing from a photo. I've known babies with "ties" that look so obvious but tongue function is not impaired.

I can look at a photo and say "your baby's tongue has a slight heart shape" or "your baby's tongue doesn't lift very high" and recommend they have a full assessment and are referred to the surgeon/TT practitioner but there is no way you can tell for certain on a single photo if there is a tie and if it is affecting feeding.

My refluxy baby wouldn't wind with patting or rubbing the back. I had to rock her forwards and backwards from a seated position as the wind was getting stuck otherwise. They're all different and what works for some or most babies may not work for yours.

You should google too much foremilk. Lots of short feeds can be a problem and hurt when digested. Not sure how you sort that problem though if the baby is alqays at the breast. I’d volunteered at the breastfeeding clinic telling people to try have longer feeds with larger gaps between feeds try not to be used as a dummy- then had my dd and experienced how ridiculous it is to try that when baby wants 5 min feeds every 15 mins!!

also google different ways to wind a baby. Rubbing/patting isn’t enough for lots of babies. You kind of have to mobilise their middle- support his head and wiggle his bum around in circles and side to side- straiten his spine too. All gentle and careful obviously. I work in childcare and did a bit of maternity nursing (overnight nanny for newborns not a midwife), also volunteered at the breastfeeding clinic. Lots of newborn nanny experience. I can wind a baby when I’m told they have been winded. I always made a point to show my overnight parents how to wind the baby if they were open to advice and I found their baby needed proper winding to settle.

also re toung tie. Listen to tube pp’s saying it could still be tounge tie. I was told my second didn’t have tounge tie when in the hospital that I just didn’t have the hang of feeding. I tandem fed and my first was a great feeder so I could clearly see the difference in his ability to latch and his swallows. I pushed as I was sure he had tounge tie and then the woman who tut it diagnosed yes he has tounge tie. Snipped it and he fed differently straight away.

there is not enough support for new mothers. Basics of feeding and winding are not natural if you have a tricky baby and no experience or support from those who do.

Why only 25ml of formula if was still hungry - why didn’t you give him more

ive known bf babies have a feed at boob and then take 90ml

make up 90/120 and see how much he drinks

def burp well

you need to look after you so have shower - change pad - cream etc whatever you need

feed first so know not hungry. Wind. Swaddle tight so feels snug. Place in cot so know in a safe place , with white noise and tend to yourself

baby will be safe and if cries for 5 mins will be fine

If you do want to do a formula feed then 25ml isn’t much, at his age your baby would probably take 3 or 4 times that.

Have you got any breastfeeding groups near you? They usually have someone to check latch and if nothing else you’ll find other mums in the same position. I found knowing I wasn’t alone helped just a little bit.

Could he be lactose intolerant. I didn't find out until my child was much older that he was lactose intolerant after drinking a large milkshake, after also drinking milk for breakfast, he doubled over in pain and it was a lightbulb moment for us. When little he was frequently upset at night, had explosive poos, and had what the health visitor said was colic. I'm afraid I just didn't realise it could be lactose intolerance. As he grew I gave up giving him any formula to top him up and he was exclusively breast fed and things then improved. It's worth considering.
Also try a C shaped or clockwise massage across the tummy to help with colic, wind and general tummy pain is very helpful.
Hope things improve soon for you both.

make up a big bottle with formula. If you’re struggling to wind him then possibly needs some infacol to help. I really hope you both get some sleep soon!