Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

Mine was like this and a dummy saved me. I had to try a few different ones to get one that she would take, but when she did she actually slept. Before that I was her dummy 24/7.

ETA a bottle of formula before bed also helped knowing she was full

this is very very dangerous please don’t do this

just to add i’m a single mum and one breastfed all my 3 and i’m currently on my own with a 2 year old and 9 month old ei i get how hard it can be i do co sleep which helps and i rest where i can so if you can sleep during the day i’d recommend that, sleep is developmental and formula won’t necessarily make a difference

All 3 of my babies slept on my chest for the first 6 weeks. They then slowly let me put them down.
formula doesn’t make them sleep better but it does mean your partner could do a feed.

it sounds tough but it will pass, they just start sleeping longer stretches

edit sorry just seen you don’t have a partner. Could you try to coax your mum into trying a bottle in the day while you’re there and then slowly see if she could do a day bottle while you have a day sleep?

I used to have a friend who would take baby out in pram for as long as baby would stay quiet for. Sometimes this gave me as long as two hours in the middle of day. Once you break the cycle and get even a little bit of rest you will feel much better. Hope things improve for you soon.

I am so sorry this stage is so hard. It will pass. We coslept because were in this situation, I would reccomend looking at cosleepy on instagram for tips! It is actually really safe. Another thing you could do aswell or instead is express a bottle of milk/ use a bottle of formula and leave your baby with your partner, go to bed at 7 and then get him to bring the baby to you at 11, meaning you can bank 4 hours sleep at the start of the night. Good luck, you have got this!! It will get easier xxx

Well let's face facts. New babies aren't designed to sleep alone and none do in nature. I know the advice is not to co sleep but people have been doing it for millennia. It's dangerous if you drink, take drugs etc
I coslept, breastfed in sleep, etc. I just arranged myself in a position on my own in the bed (no husband) where my arms were above and below baby to stop me rolling on them. I never squashed them obviously. We both got tons of sleep.
Having no sleep is far more dangerous for you both than sleeping together.

Lots of good advice here OP, so just a couple from me (which may be repeats so apologies if so)

• sleep deprivation is used as a form of torture. You are not wrong for finding this hard.

• do you have the funds to see a lactation consultant? My DC1 cried like this constantly and it turned out that they were not able to feed/latch. I’m not saying that this is necessarily the issue, but I found the council run breastfeeding support groups gave the same advice over and over again and weren’t willing/able to really figure out what was going on. I think I paid about £80 to see someone and it was a huge huge help.

• As others have said, could your mum perhaps take the baby out for a walk in the pram whilst you get some sleep in the day? Asking for help is not a sign of weakness. If your mum feels worried, could someone go with her maybe, a friend or sister?

Heart goes out to you. Could you consider a temporary night nurse??

I came back to add that the co-sleeping position I posted was suggested to me by the health visitor as a safe option. She said she knew that it wasn’t the official advice but that this was real life!

If the baby only sleeps upright on your chest or arms and similar with the pillow - It may be reflux where the baby needs head above stomach to sleep and you can try putting a pillow under the mattress to raise the cot slightly.

Bit you need to ask for help so you can sleep!

We have dog walkers - potty we don’t have baby walkers!

Another advocate of safe cosleeping here.

I resisted it because of the horror stories, my DD was exactly the same as your DS (velcro baby) and then one night I woke up having fallen asleep with her at my boob and she was face down on my lap. I decided cosleeping was worth a try as much less dangerous than that .. it was the best decision and I wish I'd done it far, far sooner.

I honestly don’t think it was, if I was sleep deprived and wrote in my original post that even 4 hours would be a dream this reply would piss me off beyond belief and I haven’t even been in OPs situation lol

Are you on your own or could the baby’s father help?
And have you tried swaddling the baby? I used to find that helped a lot.

I would recommend a 4oz bottle to start with, 25 ml will do nothing x

The early sleep deprivation is rough and is a killer. It is such a shock to the system, but it does gradually get better. One day, very quickly, it all seems like a distant memory.

There is no scientific evidence of an actual difference between method of feeding and overall sleep duration. I think you either get a baby who sleeps or you don't.
I know a few people who had first babies that slept really well from day 1, and when they had second who didn't they realised it was nothing they did, it was just luck of the draw.

This is how I survived:

Firstly, check out safe co-sleeping and try to implement that. Baby wants to be close to you, it is so natural for them to want to be with their mother to feel safe, so lean into that.

Secondly, I would go to bed at 6pm with the baby. Between then and 8am I would manage to get enough, albeit very broken, sleep to just about function. It is rubbish going to bed so early, but it didn't last long. But about 3-4 months we started going about 7-8pm as baby settled into more of a routine.

Thirdly, stay off social media and also stay off your phone at night. I also cut out a lot of sugar and I didn't have caffeine either. You'll then be more ready for sleep when baby does sleep. I had such anxiety over sleep, I saw getting sleep my priority for those first few months and it really is surprising how quickly it passed.

I wouldn't give up breastfeeding without trying some other things first, like co-sleeping. You never know if formula would give you more sleep overall and once you stop feeding, you no longer have the tool to help.
You've put in the really hard work to establish feeding, you've just got to get through the rest of the tough period, which will be over in a blink.

Breastfeeding is so amazing, not just for baby, but for your future health too. And also your future sanity as it is such a useful tool for so many things as time goes on.

My horrific sleeper is 2.5 now and we continue to co-sleep and breastfeed when he wakes at night. I have way better sleep than friends who formula fed, because I feed him back to sleep and it is quick and effortless. They are all suffering with split nights, early wake-ups, etc.
Eg today mine slept in his cot from 8pm until he woke at 4.45am. He came into our bed, had a feed, and was asleep again within 15 minutes, and we slept again until he woke at 7.30am.

I never would have risked cosleeping before having a newborn, however since breastfeeding I have had to lie down in the bed with the baby, as I almost fell a sleep holding her on the sofa a few times or sat upright.
If you are desperate, you can dress the baby up warm and make the bed safe. Sleep or lie down in a c shape with your arm above baby's head, knees bent and baby's head at breast level, make sure pillows and duvets are away from the baby and baby is not up against the wall or can fall into any gaps.
I have had to do this a few times, I wouldn't say it's the best option as it's always better for baby to sleep in a cot, but better than falling asleep with baby in an unsafe position, or if your hips are hurting from sitting up it's good to have a rest. Baby always seems to sleep better too.

I don’t care if it’s angered you. Breastfeeding is the problem if it’s stopping her get enough sleep to function.

I am so sorry OP, having a newborn is a shock to the system enough and what you have described sounds horrific. You need help asap, do you have anybody in your life that can help out? Does he sleep in a pram? Could anybody take him for a walk with expressed milk or even formula so you can get even 30 min/ half an hour? I don’t have a solution but was compelled to respond to you because I wish I could hug you and help you and get you some sleep. People used to tell me “it will pass” but it didn’t help me at the time. All I can say is it feels at times like you might die from exhaustion but you somehow keep going, and you will look back and wonder how you did. But you really need some support asap ♥️ if you ever want to message me for a rant feel free, sleep deprivation over the last 17 months has affected me mentally so so badly. Huge hugs xxx

Sorry just to reiterate for my prev response it has NOT BEEN like this bad for 17 months, it will get better and not be this bad forever, I just meant mine is 17 months now and over that period I have had bouts of sleep deprivation

I’m so so sorry. This time is awful. I remember 4 weeks in having had under three hours of broken sleep every night, I was broken. If someone had offered me a pill to go to sleep and never wake up again, I’d have taken it. It’s torture.

If you need to do formula then please do it. BF is great and all, but don’t let the BF nazi health visitor/midwives get to you! (Maybe it’s different to how it was 16 years ago. I do hope so!)

Do whatever you need to do to survive.

Wishing you strength and peace. Xxx

Those days are so, so hard. I vividly remember a couple of weeks in, my then husband sitting slumped on the side of the bed holding the baby looking utterly defeated. And that was with both of us pulling our weight. You're on your own and sleep deprivation is no joke.

The simple fact is that the baby wants to be close to you. Try a sling so you have your hands free at least, and/or try safe co-sleeping. You just need to have a bare bed, basically. I really feel for you, I can remember that deep tired nausea.

It does get better, I promise.

we cosleep with our kids. I wear warm clothes and sleep with the baby under my arm. The blanket is only up to my waist. If you are able look up the safe way to cosleep. It changed my sleep deprived life

I had two babies with no support and as a single parent - one would not sleep and would wake every 45 mins (for 9 weeks!). I used to cry all the time and felt utterly miserable, so I truly sympathise. Even at 10 years old I am still being woken up every night without fail but he sleeps for 4-5 hours straight at least now. I am going to the doctors next week to see what is going on there, but that's another story.
These are the things that helped: I would hire a baby sitter and sleep during the day or take a long bath, I also coslept and had a next2me cot attached to my bed, I breastfed as I found it was easier and I didn't have to get out of bed to prepare formula, etc (I didn't need anything else to think about)
Their sleep patterns change fairly frequently, so undoubtably a night with more consistent sleep 4 hours + will be coming. I used to tell myself that it will change and I will get some sleep soon.
On reflection, I think a sleep consultant would have been really helpful too. I really feel for you - I still feel traumatised from that period of my life.

Dear @Jennifer48 in my opinion, there are 3 things absolutely necessary in a young baby's life:

1. a main caregiver, who has had enough sleep - preferably their mummy, but anyone who always has the baby's well-fare and happiness as their ultimate, and essential goal.

2. a full tummy

3. a clean and protected nappy area

I have put you, their mummy - in this particular case - having enough sleep as the most important thing for your beautiful baby. If a baby's caregiver is running on empty, and you OP most certainly are, you can maybe coast downhill for a very short while, but then the down hill bit suddenly runs out and the road turns into a very steep uphill climb, which tragically you have no chance of achieving when you are running on empty. So what can you do? You do whatever you have to do in order to get enough sleep in any 24 hour period.

That leads to the other two essential requisits for a baby's survival and happiness. Number 3 should be relatively easy to achieve; every time you change the nappy - even if it has only had urine in it, clean the area thoroughly, then apply an effective barrier cream.

Number two doesn't mean trying to force baby to have too much milk - that wouldn't work anyway - but having fed my first baby solely on breast milk for the first week or so, and then changing to mixed feeding, but individually at each feed, I found that breastfeeding my first baby, and then in the same 'meal' topping up with formula, was quite soul destroying. So I breastfed during the day, and at night-time I gave at least two formula feeds. The first when I was hoping to be able to go to sleep reasonably soon, and at the next, when the baby woke up after the first formula feed. I might have been lucky, but with those two formula feeds I usually got a 'doable' amount of sleep, if not, the next feed would have probably been a formula feed as well.

I have to be honest with you here Jennifer, my first baby soon rejected the breastfeed, which I think was because they had to work harder to get the milk from my breast, but I did have a much more settled,, and content baby when s/he went fully on to Formula. I comforted myself with the fact that at least my baby had got the benefits of my Colostrum, and at a short while of only my breast milk on top of that. Except in extreme circumstances, I always advise starring out breastfeeding, even if the mum doesn't want to do so after the initial few days.

I also tried co-sleeping with my second baby, and, maybe luckily, no harm came to my baby, and that was years before all the advice about co-sleeping safely was available. I had been determined - I now think very stupidly - to solely breastfeed my second baby, which I managed until they were fully weaned (we started weaning at 4 months old, and sorry, but I don't know why the advice has changed to wait until babies are now 6 months old, but I presume there were statistics that showed that to be safer). But, I do have one episode from my co-sleeping time that I think, and hope is safe to share here; I woke up one morning to find that my little one hadn't woken me in the night, but there was a rather big 'love bite' on the side of my chest!

I have one other practice I would like to share with you OP, and it might be totally irrelevant to you, but when my babies - whichever way fed - use to wake up and start screaming immediately for their feed, I would give them either the first breast, or half of a bottle of formula, straight away, or as soon as possible, and then change their nappy (I think that the barrier cream I advised earlier when changing a baby's nappy, helped with that aspect) at the half way point. I felt that changing the nappy half way through had two main benefits, baby was much happier, and do didn't wriggle and/or scream while having their nappy changed, and it also helped to wake baby up a bit, so they didn't fall asleep on the first breast, or too soon on the bottle.

Unfortunately, I can't give you any safe advice about how much formula to offer a baby - presumably decided on by the baby's weight at any given time - but every child is different, and sadly there are few to no absolutes when it comes to areas like this. I think that personally I would always make up a little extra of their formula - but always at the correct amount of water to powder ratio that is stipulated on the tin/carton - and if they don't want anymore, then accept that, but if they are still showing signs of hunger I would let them have that extra amount, after all we don't know how much they take when breastfeeding.

I'm so sorry that this is so long, but if you are reading this you have presumably managed to get through it. I hope that I haven't given you any actual bad advice OP, but if you are in any doubt then please check with the health medic that you get on with, and trust, the most. Also, if any Mumsnetters can have been bothered to read all of this, then I am sure they will point out any, and all, faults. Do please listen to them, and although I don't think that babies have changed much in the last 40 odd years, safe practices certainly have!

Oops, one last thing you might think I have missed out on as a priority, which is the love babies both need and deserve. I think that your OP Jennifer showed us all very definitely that you love your baby very much, and that you wouldn't have all the concerns you do have if you didn't love your sweet baby. But, the other reason I didn't put love down as a priority, was because not all babies are lucky enough to be born into a loving environment, for all sorts of reasons, including the poor mum having acute postnatal depression. So, I still advocate that at the beginning of a baby's life, the first 3 things I spoke of, are still the most important. I want to give you flowers Jennifer, but I don't think they will help, so instead I am sending you a Big Hug, which probably won't help either, but I can't think of anything else, except thank you from me, and the village, for being such a great Mum 🤗 xxx