Refugee Guest puts 5 yr old to bed too late

[No1pugmum]

We’ve been happily hosting a refugee and her son for 18 months. He was 3 when they joined us, now 5. When they arrived. he regularly went to bed after 10pm and she asked me to help him have an earlier bedtime after I explained how it wasn't good for anyone that he was staying up so late. That worked and he was going to bed earlier. Fast forward to now. He’s in Reception, but he’s regularly up at 8:30, sometimes even later, on a school day. On Sunday he was still up and watching telly at 8:30 and, last night, I got home from taking my older daughter out and he was still up at 8pm, watching telly, not fed and still in his school uniform. I told her I was concerned with his late bedtimes and he should be in bed by 7pm. Her response was to say she can’t put him to bed earlier because she’s got online courses that need to be done at a certain time as other people are involved and the times can’t be changed. I appreciate she wants to better herself, but I don’t think she realises how much a late bedtime could be affecting her son’s development and well being. Should I continue to try to advise, or butt out? I feel like I’m failing him if it continues. Any advice is appreciated.

Early bedtimes are a Western social construct

In Spain children go to bed 10:30 / 11 and that it’s quite early for some people.

I don’t understand why a child has to be in bed at 7 pm either.

My children go at around 9/ 9:30 and they are fine. Nobody has died.

Let her parent her child.

It's brilliant that you are doing this and it is hard to have a family who do things differently to you in your space. I'm sure that some of this is the stress of just knocking on each other in a difficult situation. But from outside the UK, 7pm is an extremely early bedtime for children and if they're not used to it, they won't sleep - it will frustrate everyone. It's nice that you care about his welfare but this is really a choice for his Mum.

This! British parents often favour very early bedtimes to get rid of the kids and spend time in their own. Overseas evenings are much mire family centered.
However in her case she sounds overwhelmed by her studies commitments and given what she has had to go through in the last 2 years, bedtime routines are small fry. Either offer to put the kid to bed yourself or leave her to it.

I told her I was concerned with his late bedtimes and he should be in bed by 7pm

Who says? None of my kids were ever in bed by 7pm at 5yo. They have all turned out just fine.

While my kids didn’t go, most kids here in nursery/daycare are not picked up until 6pm by parents on way home from work. That’s kids younger than school age. By the time they are picked up, make way home in traffic, get in and get fed there would be zero chance of bed by 7pm! Same for after school care, most are signed out around 6pm here. Mine didn’t have that issue and we’re home much earlier, but even so would never have gone to bed at that time at that age. If made, and they could actually go to sleep (as they were in no way tired at that time), they would have been up at stupid o’clock in the morning which would not have been great for them or anyone else!

Pp saying it’s different culture - a kid being still in uniform at 8pm and having not eaten? I know a lot of people from a lot of cultures, there’s definitely variations across the world in the approach to bedtime etc, but children are still usually in a routine that gets them to school on time.

If he’s picked up at 3:30 there’s no reason to not have fed and bathed him. Staying up late is one thing, but not doing any basic care until gone 8 would be pissing me off, too. It’s not about culture, it’s an issue that he’s not getting up in the morning because he’s knackered. If we’re talking culture differences/refugee family, this person is away from their support network and the family who would maybe normally give suggestions and advice on parenting - I would sit her down kindly and speak about the not being able to get up in the mornings. It doesn’t have to be mean or rude, I’m sure OP is capable of being tactful and caring. People are always moaning about lack of ‘village’ and not having a support network, but if you have a good support network they do usually gently advise and support. This mum is away (I’m guessing?) from her own mum/sisters/friends etc who might usually be offering advice and even if she isn’t, well the child being late to school every day will cause issues so it needs to be addressed.

It sounds like they’re probably just getting on your nerves and this is symptomatic of that

My DD is 5 and does extra curricular activities every day after school. There's no way I could get her in bed for 7pm after dinner, bath and bed and also some time with her!

You need to chill out a bit. 8.30pm isn't that late.

Definitely not your business, 8:30 isn't so crazy. Mine is in bed by 8 but frequently still awake at 8:30. I wouldn't be impressed with anyone judging my parenting on something so minor as bedtime.

Children do not need to go to bed at 7, it is ridiculously early and it doesn't fit in to the lifestyle of a lot of families

Just to add to my post no I don’t think 7pm is realistic for a lot of families. I just object to the not being able to get up and to school on time. I also have an aversion to kids not being bathed and fed as soon as they get in but I think that’s some kind of hangover from my own childhood. It also depends what time they get in. A kid picked up at 6 cannot be in bed by 7

I dint know any child that age in France that are in bed at 7.00pm.
They dint go to bed before 8.00~8.30pm. 7.00pm is the time they start eating.

Dont impose your way of doing things to her. It’s not because it’s the norm in the U.K. to feed children at 5.00pm and put them in bed at 7.00pm that it’s the only way to raise a child nor that it’s the best way.

This is a hard one, OP. Your house, your rules. But also her habits, her parenting, among many other things you're probably bumping up against.

I wonder if, after 18 months, it's time for you and your guest to move on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking about this at this point. And I say this as the daughter of a refugee who was able to stand on his own two feet entirely because of the kind host who sheltered him... but not for 18 months. That's too long for one person to give.
I wonder if you should set a goal to 'complete your journey' (trying to word this nicely, cringe as that sounds!) by 24 months. That way you see an exit sign ahead and they get a softer exit and some time to establish their next steps. Also, you can sort of step back from the things that are bothering you and accept their patterns, routines, etc., knowing that they'll be moving on.
I think you just need your space back, to be honest. Nothing wrong with that! You've been a good soul, given back to the world, given them a running start in the UK. They'll be ok.

@EverybodyLTB my dcs never got changed from their uniform after school.
Just like I never get changed from work clothes after work.
They are just clothes.

I suspect the child has had a nice snack after school instead so isn’t feeling hungry (the mum would know about it otherwise!)

This. 8:30 is towards the later end for a 5 year old but o don’t think it’s terrible.

I think you are viewing this from your own prism of experience which may be different to other cultures. I'd butt out or offer to do his bedtimes yourself

This isn't a long thread. Why are people ignoring OPs update where she has been pretty accepting of the replies?

I think some British parents have an almost religious adherence to the idea that young children should be in bed by 7pm. Even though many of them don't necessarily need to get up super-early. It is a cultural thing, I suppose.

I think the real question here is not what time the child goes to bed, but whether they are getting enough sleep. And whether they are alert and active during the day etc.

You've done a wonderful thing in hosting this family, OP, and I admire you for it. But I think you have to respect the fact that cultural attitudes towards bedtime will differ, and as long as the little boy is healthy and happy, you need to allow this family to parent in the way that they see fit. It might be different from your way, but just as good.

Still quite interested in talking about cultural differences and the ins and outs of families with different ways of doing things under the same roof?

I can't imagine how any working parents can get their children in bed by 7. I never managed before 8 and that was doing dinner bath and stories as quickly as possible.

No dinner is more of a concern though.

FWIW worth we also have a refugee living with us. Her children are adults and not with us, but she thinks my children go to bed very early (lights out by 8ish). It's definitely cultural - my in laws who are from another european country consider 9pm a very civilised appropriate bedtime for children who have to be up at 7am. And it seems to work fine for them!

As a foreigner, it's a British thing to put kids to bed so pointlessly early though. I don't really understand it because then British kids wake up insanely early and British parents don't get proper sleep either?! And also that seems to be why British parents are always so stressed out about after work/dinner routine, rush rush rush to get ready and tuck in for bedtime.

As long as the child gets enough hours of sleep overall, and doesn't sleep at some insane hour, it's fine

This is definitely a cultural difference. Children do need their sleep - it doesn't have to be from 7.30pm. You are overstepping by getting involved and being controlling. Just have an agreed time by when he will be in their own room/s so not impacting the rest of the house say 9pm which gives her flexibility etc to make decisions about her own child

8.30pm is not that late. My five year old is rarely asleep before 8.30pm, often later - he's in bed for 8pm but he just doesn't sleep, so there's no point. He wakes up around 7.30am, which works for us as we live very near school. He's slept this way since he dropped his afternoon nap, so it's obviously his natural rhythm.

A bonus is that we very rarely get woken up at 5/6am, like my friends who put their children to bed at 7pm...

Yes agree with all of this. It is cultural and 8 isn't that late that it will impair their development so don't worry.
My DCs go to bed between 8 and 8.30 as I'm from Germany and it's also quite normal there. And it does indeed mean we don't have any ridiculously early wake ups, so it's a win-win.
It also means DCs can stay up late enough to have dinner out at weekends etc. I was trying to get them into the 7pm UK routine but it was really restrictive for us and left no time for family time by the time we finished work.