Refugee Guest puts 5 yr old to bed too late

[No1pugmum]

We’ve been happily hosting a refugee and her son for 18 months. He was 3 when they joined us, now 5. When they arrived. he regularly went to bed after 10pm and she asked me to help him have an earlier bedtime after I explained how it wasn't good for anyone that he was staying up so late. That worked and he was going to bed earlier. Fast forward to now. He’s in Reception, but he’s regularly up at 8:30, sometimes even later, on a school day. On Sunday he was still up and watching telly at 8:30 and, last night, I got home from taking my older daughter out and he was still up at 8pm, watching telly, not fed and still in his school uniform. I told her I was concerned with his late bedtimes and he should be in bed by 7pm. Her response was to say she can’t put him to bed earlier because she’s got online courses that need to be done at a certain time as other people are involved and the times can’t be changed. I appreciate she wants to better herself, but I don’t think she realises how much a late bedtime could be affecting her son’s development and well being. Should I continue to try to advise, or butt out? I feel like I’m failing him if it continues. Any advice is appreciated.

My five year old wouldn't sleep until after then no matter how hard we tried. He was fine.

Some kids that age don't need as much sleep.

To say it's effecting his development isn't just wrong, it's utterly offensive.

When my son was 5 he rarely slept before 10, and that's on a school light! He just doesn't need a huge amount of sleep

I'm a single mom and work full time. When DD was that age she was very rarely in bed before 9. By the time I'd got her home from nursery it was 6.30. Tea, chill time, bath, story and bed took us at least up until to 9. No harm done. Just leave her be. Unless the child is drooping I'm sure he's fine.

I agree with this.

Plus bedtimes are often a cultural issue. 'Our' way of doing it is not necessarily the right way- it's just our way.

could be affecting his development. As could being a child refugee, his mother living in isolation without her support network etc etc.
Their lives are basically on hold at the moment and this is his mum's best effort.

DS went to bed at 8pm in reception. Woke up at 8am, so was getting plenty of sleep. The bedtime is a non-issue.

If she isn’t doing anything with him when he gets home from school, that is more of an issue - you say he hadn’t had tea yet because she was still doing her online course. He shouldn’t be sitting there for five hours while she works, waiting to be fed. But it’s not really clear if that is an ongoing issue, or a one-off.

Also, what time is he getting home from school and last eating? I have a reception aged child and I’m not able to believe that one would happily eat at midday and then quietly sit watching tv until 8pm without anything in between.

We have plenty of food available at after school clubs so could he be eating then or are you saying he hasn’t eaten because he hasn’t had a hot evening meal, which also isn’t essential? If a child has a hot school lunch I don’t see any issue with something cold or sandwiches later on if that’s what works around a parent needing to work.

Just come back from Italy where I saw activities for small children advertised which ran from 5-7pm.

The UK is the outlier in terms of putting children to bed so early. It will not negatively affect him in any way to go to bed at a more 'normal' (for the rest of the world) time.

My kids were in actives until 8pm a few nights a week at that age. What are you playing at? You’re not the parent, you’re not her owner either. You don’t get to say when he goes to bed. Butt out.

If the arrangement isn’t working because you want the kid out of the way at 7pm then admit that you don’t want them to stay anymore and get them moved. But you seriously need to stop dictating when she puts her child to bed or commenting on her parenting unless the kid is actually neglected or in danger. It has nothing to do with you.

Surely when you agree to host you understand you do not get to dictate to people how they live? Why are you right and the mother wrong?

I think there is a difference if he is going to be later than (you think) is ideal and is tired/grumpy/upset from lack of sleep, or whether he's functions fine on the sleep he's getting....?
I can't remember ever having a strict 7pm bedtime for my own DC. I think they went to bed around 8pm at that age although thry probably weren't watching TV.
If he's used to going to bed fairly late then 7pm might seem very early but if the mother asks for advice or wants him to go to bed earlier maybe you could work out ways together that he could be ready for bed earlier. Eg could he have a bath and get into pjs before she's online, even if he watches some TV after?

You're not failing him. Bedtime varies widely between cultures. Set boundaries around use of shared space if you want to, but leave it to his mother to decide his bedtime.

My 5 year old goes to bed around 9 and is usually asleep by 10. She wakes naturally around 6.30/7. Doesn't exhibit any signs of tiredness at all.

If we'd put her brother down at 7 when he was 5, he would have been up around 2am.

The only people who have ever complained are dh's siblings at family gatherings because they want their children out of the way earlier and their kids were kicking off about their cousins still being up. This feels similar to that.

Thanks everyone, really appreciate your advice. Sometimes you can be too close to a situation to see what’s happening. I’ve already do a lot of the things that have been suggested (pick him up
from school, have food he can eat in the fridge ready, try to involve him in our mealtimes). I don’t want to interfere with his meals too much as he eats a very different diet from us and is very fussy. I’d be seriously over stepping if I put him to bed, that should be his mum who does that. We both work and I have two older kids who have ASD and who have after school activities, so it’s difficult to get too involved (and I don’t think I should get too involved as she needs to be independent when she moves on). But I think the conclusion is I should let her get on with it. I need to reassess my boundaries and stop feeling guilty for something I can’t control. Really appreciate your comments.

I thought you were going to say he was up until the middle of the night. I don't know anyone who sends their children to bed earlier than 8.30/9, but their children aren't waking up at 5am either. A child going to sleep at 9/9.30 and waking up at 7/7.30 is still getting 10 hours of sleep
Some of them have activities after school - swim, dance, skating etc that mean they wouldn't be able to go to bed earlier on those days, I hardly thing it's damaging their development.
Unless he's obviously overtired/grumpy/falling asleep, or the school report concerns, I would leave her to parent her child.

You do realise different countries / different families have different customs?

I’m from an European country where dinner is at 8/9pm, bedtime an hour later. Yes, this includes 5 year olds. No, nobody has been harmed by it, quite the opposite. Yes, I will do the same with my own children.

Is the little boy starving at 8pm? Is it that he hasn’t had dinner yet, or that he hasn’t had any food at all since lunch? Is he capable of getting up in the morning and making it to school in time?

Telling her that him being awake at 8:30pm might “harm his development” is preposterous. Please don’t be that offensive to your guests, the British way is not the only right way.

I need to reassess my boundaries and stop feeling guilty for something I can’t control.

Guilty for what, exactly? What’s there to feel guilty about a totally normal evening routine?

What ar you feeling guilty about? That a different parent does things differently to you?

Op I think the answer is butt out.

If the child is up OK for school stay out of it. My kids have never been in bed at 7pm. Lots of kids are in wrap around care until 5.30-6.00 they still need to get home dinner and bed.
No chance will it happen much sooner than 8.30. Lots if kids groups (Brownies, sports clubs etc) are on until 7.30-8.00.

8.30 isn't wildly late for kids

I would step back a bit, it sounds as though you are already doing what you can.

How is it affecting you? Do you want an adult evening and find this child on your sofa at what you consider to be too late a time?

I think you need to be honest about the issue in order to decide how to tackle it (or not).

Hosting a Ukrainian family really made me question a lot of British cultural beliefs for the first time. Things that we accept are the ‘right’ way, without question, might not necessarily be right.

I too went through a stage of being stressed about interfering, until I told myself that I was overstepping. There may be situations that you must take action over (e.g. It’s common to leave kids alone in the house from the ages of 6 or 7. Obviously that wouldn’t be allowed here), but for all other things I’d keep my nose out unless I was asked. Once I made that conscious decision my life got much easier!

Good luck, it’s a wonderful thing you’re doing. The kid is safe, in part down to you. That’s huge. A late bedtime won’t hurt him.

Anyway- I gave my thoughts up thread- but good on you and your family for taking in refugee guests. I could not have anyone living intimately in my space for so long- it would stress me beyond belief so i admire you for it. I have a good friend who has taken in a Ukrainian family. She was a child on the kinder transports herself and taken in by British families so she felt she wanted to do that herself. It's been hard for her and they get along great- but still not having your own home entirely to yourself is hard.

So I admire you OP. And there will be niggles and irritations of course.

We were homeless for 7 months and had to live with the in-laws. Mil made it her mission to use the time to correct all the parenting "mistakes" she thought we were making. It made a stressful time much worse. I think you need to take a step back and be a landlord and friend rather than a foster carer.

When my children were that age there was no chance they would be in bed at 7, and if we had tried they would have taken ages to get to sleep. It made no difference to their performance at school.