People keep telling me I’m depressed, isn’t this just hell for anyone?

[Secondchildregret]

4:30am (if we’re lucky, once it was 3:30am)
every single day..
without fail.

Both of them are up screaming, shouting, whining, crying.

I give them milk and a banana and they continue to fight scream and cry.

Will not go back with anything we’ve tried it all - paid a sleep consultant… everything.

My eyeballs ache most days
im cloudy and can’t concentrate
I just want to fucking sleep I want to go to sleep in silence and rest in the knowledge that I am going to wake up when I’m fully rested in silence and have a chance to come around before being shouted or screamed at.

I work ten hour shifts to give them everything they need and they just won’t let me sleep.. ever..

By the time I’ve finished sorting out all the crap from them throughout the day/evening it’s post 9pm, half hour of silence to myself then to sleep.

We still frequently get broken sleep because it’s cough season and they cry all the time

They can’t even play in their rooms quietly so I can at least have some rest in silence, one steals the others dummy and they fight over it.

it’s not a lot to ask.. imo

I’d get up at 4, make two nice warm bottles, let each have it in their cot whilst I changed their nappy also in the cot. No light, silence, no chatting, back to sleep.

And do have later tea, later physical activity, calming bedtime routine and slightly later bedtime most nights.

Just mulling this over @Secondchildregret

So instead of getting some quiet time in the evening we get none

It's swings and roundabouts isn't it? You and DH need to decide if having quiet time after 6pm is more important than having quiet time after 4.30am.

Because you can't have both. It's totally unreasonable to expect a 6pm bedtime and, say, 7am wake up. You can't have it both ways. Either:

• Relish your 6.30pm-8.30pm 2h quiet time, get yourself to bed for 8.30pm so you can cope with a 4.30am wake up and be ready for it.
• Have that 2h quiet time sleeping from 4.30-6.30am. The payoff is that your evening doesnt start until 9pm, after an 8.30pm kids bedtime. You don't need to go to bed so early, so get an extra hour or two quiet time later in the evening

The average toddler nights sleep is 11h - but the range of 10-12h overnight sleep would all be normal.

• 6pm-4.30am is 10.5h sleep. Very close to the average expected wake up time of 11h, and within normal range.

So you simply cannot expect your toddlers to sleep later in the morning when they are put yo bed at 6pm.

You either have to suck it up, value your quiet evening, go to bed early and plan to start your day early.

Or shift the routine of the whole day later. That will take work and consistency. It will be difficult and won't change overnight, or even within a week. But is definitely doable if you decide that morning sleep is more important than teatime quiet time.

That's what it comes down to: is morning sleep is more important to you than teatime quiet time? Or not?

Exactly what I was going to suggest.

@FATEdestiny taking your advice, 2yo had nap 11:30-13:30.

will update

Re quiet time, I don’t know I think I maybe chasing my tail with wanting it. Do I only want quiet time so bad because I’m so exhausted and if I was better rested wouldn’t need it? Who knows, trying the nap thing and later food starting today

Don't forget you will need to give this 3 weeks to see a change in routine, and that's only if you're consistent.

Its unrealistic to expect a lasting change today, or even this week. It will be really hard work at first - with difficult evenings and mornings. Work though it though.

(PS - synchronise their lunchtime nap. It makes your life easier.)

Good luck. Just remember it's not a quick fix! Needs consistency and time with any new routine.

@Secondchildregret I've followed @FATEdestiny advice and it works. You have to move times for everything by 10/15 mins every 2-3 days.

Our routine:
6am wake up
Milk
7.30 weetabix
10am snack (banana and biscuit)
Midday Lunch
1pm nap
3pm wake & small snack
4pm hearty snack
6pm evening meal
6.45pm bath
7pm milk (takes 30 mins to drink, they play around)
7.45 last nappy change & brush teeth
8pm asleep

DD now walks to the stair gate at 6.45 on the dot waiting for her bath and walks to the stair gate after her milk at the end of the day.

I was like you, you do need chillout time but you learn to accept just 1 hour.

Are they not interested in screens? If they would watch something upon waking either you or your partner could sleep in each morning. Or would earplugs be enough?

Please don’t introduce a screen to a 14mo.

My 20m old only needs 7-8hrs of sleep per night. And he is a 6hr wake window man.
But the same way as your DC OP, he makes noises that he's hysterically tired at 6pm. But if we put him to sleep then he'd be up at 2am.
So we just accept he needs 20mins at 6pm to take the edge off. And he goes to bed at 10/11pm.
Everyday still starts at 5/6am. It's torture.

Screens are fine in small doses and supervised.

@Tadpoll I'm more concerned about the earplugs suggestion 😢 poor babies

You might want to look into the research behind that.

Also not sure how supervision makes it any better? Presumably they’re not watching Silence of the Lambs.

I’m intrigued. If it’s torture why are you not fixing this?

No 20mo ‘only needs 7-8hrs sleep a night’.

@Tadpoll
💁

This is a common theme with parents of children who don’t sleep. Eventually they just decide that their child needs the minimum sleep the child can achieve at that time. The tiredness does it to you.

they need 12-13hrs but never mind. It is so hard when you are so tired. I remember it. Vaguely.

😬

Actually sounds like he should be going to bed at 6pm and staying there, not having a pointless 20 minutes nap then.

@00100001 yes I agree that would be lovely. He then wakes up at 2am. I've gone to work countless times having been up since 2am.
We've changed every nap time / wake window/ meal time / routine/ bed boundary/sleep association. 2 sleep consultants. 6ms ago we bought a mattress to bed share. No difference. Sorry I know I just sound like I'm being stubborn.

Try something else to eat before bed. They are probably genuinely Hungry if it's 12h since tea
my dd has a supper (toast/banana/cereal etc) and a 7oz bottle before bed (25mo)