People keep telling me I’m depressed, isn’t this just hell for anyone?

[Secondchildregret]

4:30am (if we’re lucky, once it was 3:30am)
every single day..
without fail.

Both of them are up screaming, shouting, whining, crying.

I give them milk and a banana and they continue to fight scream and cry.

Will not go back with anything we’ve tried it all - paid a sleep consultant… everything.

My eyeballs ache most days
im cloudy and can’t concentrate
I just want to fucking sleep I want to go to sleep in silence and rest in the knowledge that I am going to wake up when I’m fully rested in silence and have a chance to come around before being shouted or screamed at.

I work ten hour shifts to give them everything they need and they just won’t let me sleep.. ever..

By the time I’ve finished sorting out all the crap from them throughout the day/evening it’s post 9pm, half hour of silence to myself then to sleep.

We still frequently get broken sleep because it’s cough season and they cry all the time

They can’t even play in their rooms quietly so I can at least have some rest in silence, one steals the others dummy and they fight over it.

it’s not a lot to ask.. imo

@Rosieisposy its not for everyone but it gets “pushed” because it equals a better nights sleep for many many people.

Mine were early risers. I had to go to bed earlier to compensate so I had enough sleep. They are very close in age, they will soon play together but for now it will be hard work. Can you get jobs done in the morning when they're awake rather than leaving them to the evening?

Well, it’s worth a suggestion, but it doesn’t work for everyone and I do think that needs saying as well.

To be honest OP, getting up at 5 to do chores and bed at 7 is no life and I can understand why you wouldn’t want that. I think I’d be inclined to look into a different sleep consultant.

They must have room for a double king sized bed.

Again it might just be us but in the days when I tried co sleeping ds would always insist on burying into me (then kicking me all night!) so the size of the bed made no difference!

First of all yes not getting sleep for such a long time is awful. Mine didn’t sleep.

I had to cope, not try and battle through so that meant earlier nights sometimes and taking naps when I could at weekends.

I also set up white noise, blackout blinds and a decent pull out bed in their rooms so I could crash next to them for night wakings without proper Co sleeping.

If the sleep consultant didn’t work then it’s either they’re shit or there’s s medical reason for poor sleep. In our case, mine had silent reflux triggered by cows milk and acidic fruits. So we had to tackle that.

It will get better, they won’t be doing it forever but you can end up in a dark place while it’s happening.

Same, we call eldest feet seekers because they just keep reaching out until they touch skin. And proceed to scrape a toenail against you.

anyway, I don’t think I’m depressed because when out i take joy in then seeing things for the first time/I love getting them their favourite toys and watching them play. When I’m at work I’m engaged, driven and motivated. I JUST WANT SLEEEEP.

My sentences are short because my eyeballs hurt but I’m on my phone desperate for any advice.

I think cleaning/tidying in the morning is good, I will implement that immediately- thank you.

Yes there are two of us, we can’t afford a hotel even on the sofa we are awoken by the noise, they really are noisy!! Our neighbour beards them running around the house starting at 4:30am🥹.

Sympathies OP. My 6 year old gets up between 2am and 3am. Special needs, runs like a whirlwind and as usually this morning has smeared so I'm cleaning that too before it's even hit 5am

It's hard.

My 3 would have played together unsupervised at that age. They wanted to be near us. If wasn't until 4ish they would go elsewhere to play.

I know some kids need less sleep - but regular 4:30 waking if not through cold, hunger, habit can be a sign if an additional need.

If there are no undiagnosed additional needs then you need new habits. Tough as it is to implement them you need to try something else.

If you can afford it try a different sleep consultant or your health visitor or listen to a friend talk about what they do. (But you have to be open and willing to change). It might mean changes to parenting approach in the day to be consistent with night.

Do you have PND? No idea. If you even suspect it go talk to your doctor. Young kids are tough. But 4:30 waking is not normal or sustainable.

My oldest two are just over a year apart. At that age they’d often wake at 4-4:30am. I’d give them each a bottle of milk in the cot, no talking, if older one interacts just repeat ‘it’s night time’ and leave the room. It took a few days but they understood eventually and would then fall asleep again and wake much happier at 6:30-7am. I would guess yours are crying and grumpy because they are starting the day so early. I know it’s really really hard but 4:30am is still night time (well, it is in our house) and needs to be treated as such. I’m sending you lots of solidarity and sympathy OP. I know it’s exhausting x

Has your neighbour complained OP?

We do say it’s night time but 2yo cries/screams/asks to go downstairs and 1yo cries getting louder and louder until we get up and get him drink/banana. It doesn’t matter how many ‘it’s night time, back to sleep’s we do.

The neighbour didn’t complain, they were polite, just mentioned in a conversation they can hear them running around at 4:30😬.

I think you need to remind them that night time is when you sleep. With DS I never used to speak in the night, I’d hug, kiss and shush him but never spoke. Only the nightlight was allowed to be on, and we never ever played with toys in the night. It was always kept dark and quiet. He was not allowed out of bed until 6am at the earliest. I appreciate it’s harder with two but giving them snacks and letting them play will mean they always get up in the night. Perhaps a groclock would be a good visual for them? They must stay in bed until the clock changes colour.

Stop letting them leave their room, if they need something you can nip and fetch it but they must stay in their room (unless they need a bathroom trip but I assume they aren’t potty training yet?)

I totally get it OP it took a while for mine to get it, but they did get it in the end. I know that doesn’t work for everyone.

Ah ok I’m going to say that’s probably your neighbours polite way of saying they don’t want to hear children at 4:30am! Have they got tablets to watch? Will they sit and watch TV/your phones? Yes some people will say it’s not brilliant but it’s 4:30am and at least it’ll give you a chance to doze on the sofa (and the neighbour won’t passively aggressively complain again fingers crossed!)

The upside is, your older one will really start to understand soon that he/she needs to sit quietly for a bit and watch TV. I know it’s torture at the moment OP I really do get it, but at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel (even though it feels very far away) x

What are their routines op let's see if we can help

With 1 year old, maybe he is hungry. With mine, the minute I heard him in the cot stirring at 4am, I’d put the bottle of milk in his hands in the cot. Would that work?

Just wanted to send sympathy. In the same boat, 6m and 27m. Last night I slept 9.30 - 1 and then 6 - 7 (DH took over from 6). One of the kids was awake at all times between 1am and 6am. It’s torture. I have a prescription at the pharmacy to collect on Monday for some sertraline but I really don’t want to be taking drugs and dealing with the side effects when I know that if they just slept I wouldn’t feel like the world was a horrible place. I’m a different person when I’ve had a full night of sleep - all of 3 times since youngest was born!

shadowpuppets you poor thing, you really have my sympathy. Are they poorly? X

Hi OP. I just want to offer support and sympathy. I don't think you're depressed, I think you're in very difficult circumstances which anyone would find unbearable.

I think the drink and snack could be a problem, agree they probably need a big bowl of cereal just before bed. I'd also write down their full routines and work out naps- but back on naps during the day if you can and see if it helps.

Then I'd buy noise cancelling headphones, get a white noise machine and take turns on the sofa with my other half to try and maximise rest for each of us until things got better. They will get better, I hope you're ok.

We had one of these, and yes I ended up on ADs - although I suspect lack of sleep exacerbated the PND rather than caused it.

When my oldest, regularly awake from 1am-3am, up for the day at 5.30 was just a little bit older than your oldest he asked for an alarm clock for Christmas. The gro clock had done nothing, but we dutifully bought him one, and it has been brilliant. Yes, you never maybe get a lie in because they might sleep longer, but if it knocks the crazy early waking on the head it's worth it! He's now a teen and washing up right now having made everyone scrambled eggs for breakfast (alarm clocks now switched off at the weekend, but originally it went 7 days a week)

We never told him he had to sleep, but he had to allow other people to sleep. I'd give them a bowl of porridge just before bed, and then turn the 4am snack into milk in bed, and then silence until the time starts with a 5 initially.

For the sake of your health, and your neighbour's sanity, I really think you need to try and work on getting closer to 6am but it will take time.

This. No snacks, no going downstairs, no talking at all. Porridge at bedtime.
If they cry they cry. Encourage comfort teddies and blankets.
If you're desperate, then alternate nights with your DH and take turns to sleep in the garage/shed/car. Sounds ridiculous but my friend got a full nights sleep every other night this way.

When is their tea time, last milk and bedtime?

I'm with pp about the no snacks etc, shush and lay them down, say sleep time now. Add a supper of banana and milk. Offer water only. Tough week, then hopefully sorted. Buy the neighbours some ear plugs and box of chocolates for the week.

I couldn't see it but what's nap routine, along with bedtime? As maybe something needs tinkering.

Just remember sleep deprivation is used as torture for a reason. It is tough and sucks.

Thanks @Namechangedforthisonetoday. Baby was up and down between 1 - 3 and was up at 5. On night 2 of ‘gentle’ (ha) sleep training and suspect that the noise disturbed the toddler who had me sitting with her for an hour at 4… Im praying the sleep training works tbh as this is my last resort, I don’t know what you do when the last resort doesn’t work. Have been trying to explain to everyone that I really think it’s sleep deprivation not depression as to why I’m so bleak at the moment but it doesn’t feel like anyone understands, so OP’s post spoke to me :)