People keep telling me I’m depressed, isn’t this just hell for anyone?

[Secondchildregret]

4:30am (if we’re lucky, once it was 3:30am)
every single day..
without fail.

Both of them are up screaming, shouting, whining, crying.

I give them milk and a banana and they continue to fight scream and cry.

Will not go back with anything we’ve tried it all - paid a sleep consultant… everything.

My eyeballs ache most days
im cloudy and can’t concentrate
I just want to fucking sleep I want to go to sleep in silence and rest in the knowledge that I am going to wake up when I’m fully rested in silence and have a chance to come around before being shouted or screamed at.

I work ten hour shifts to give them everything they need and they just won’t let me sleep.. ever..

By the time I’ve finished sorting out all the crap from them throughout the day/evening it’s post 9pm, half hour of silence to myself then to sleep.

We still frequently get broken sleep because it’s cough season and they cry all the time

They can’t even play in their rooms quietly so I can at least have some rest in silence, one steals the others dummy and they fight over it.

it’s not a lot to ask.. imo

My son did not sleep through the night until he was 4.5 years old - sleep deprivation is a form of torture of course OP is reasonable describing her life as hell!

If there are 2 of you then one needs to go to bed early and get up early.

Whilst the other sorts the stuff out for the morning and goes to bed later, then gets up later.

You can take in turns of which one does which.

In the early days it’s literally just finding things that work and although it’s not ideal it will mean both of you getting a decent amount of sleep.

I'm not actually surprised they are waking 12 hours after food, and after 10 hous of sleep

Exactly, this seems kind of obvious

Push their bedtime, this let's you give them a late snack. I know you say it won't work but they will adjust eventually. I really don't think it's safe to let two kids that young toddle around while you stay in bed.

There is no way your neighbour is ok with getting awoken at 4.30 every day, you need to do something.

It’s not really the ‘early days’, though. OP needs to sort this, not just get through it.

Have you tried co-sleeping? I still co-sleep with mine and sleep like a baby every night (we all do!). When we put them in their own room it’s like your situation. Nobody sleeps unless we sleep together and then we get an amazing night sleep!

So every child in France is going to bed too late?

When we lived there 8 was a very normal bedtime and honestly I never heard anyone talking about 4 am and 5 am wake-ups the way they do here

Wait - just RTFT. You put them to bed at 6?? 6??!!! That’s way too early! Let them stay up until 9. Then they’ll naturally sleep until 7. 6 is insanely early. No wonder they’re up so early. They’ve already had enough sleep by 4:30!

(I live abroad and the earliest any child I know is put to bed is 9. Never earlier. Most people think it’s crazy how early British people put their children to bed and I can’t help but agree! What’s the point of it? They’re babies who can nap at any point during the day if they’re tired. The British tradition of the crazy early night just makes everyone’s morning difficult and miserable.)

Why are they going to bed at 6?!

You need to stop the banana at 0430.

It'll be a rough few days but you need to break the habit.

It's so tough, isn't it? My ds was the same, also pulled at the cot bars to go to bed at 6pm! We gave him porridge or ready brek after nursery so just before bed which did help a bit. We did end up buying a TV for our room though just so we could stay in bed until 6am and he'd sit and watch (days before tablets). We also really had to limit day time sleep. It did get better and he's now a typical teenager lying in until noon...hang in there.

When we had this our sleep plan was:

More food in the day
More consistent nap times in the day
Earlier bedtime (but yours look good)
Gradual retreat at early wake ups

Id push that you make 5.30am getting up' time so dark, silence, ignore screaming. We would stay on a chair in the room with the ocassional "it's night time" but don't engage / get them up.

Once food / day naps were better, we went for the gradual retreat. Screamed blue murder for the full hour first night, 30 mins 2nd night, half hearted 15 minutes, very weak attempt at protest on 4th night. 5th night stirred, I said "it's night time" went straight back to sleep.

DD3 (almost) goes to sleep at 6pm and wakes at 7am. What's wrong with that? If I put her to bed at gone 9, in theory she wouldn't wake until 10am! Or just wake at 7 and not get enough sleep.

I had two easy children and my third was so much harder, never slept tantrums etc. I knew the difference so understood but I had loads of people say it's a phase etc. play it down when really they had no clue because their experience was not comparable. Some things we did to help-

Tag team - I slept 8-12, then dh came to bed and I got up when needed in night needed /did the early start.
I never got him up before 630, I just kept putting him back to bed.
Weekend we each got a lay in til ten (sorry I don't know if you have a partner?)
Between730-630 it was dark, quiet no food/drink/toys. I didn't even speak just lead him back to bed.
I would also do a quiet time in afternoon (once naps stopped) from 2-330 ish where there would be tv on snuggling on settee just a few quiet toots. So even if I didn't sleep. I rested.

The banana is a new thing, ten days ago. They were getting up before I gave them a damn banana 😂

We have put the toddler to bed later, consistently, we’re 2.5 years into this it’s not our first night! We have tried everything he still gets up at that time.

When we try a later bedtime for 2yo he ended up getting hysterical and napping in the day. Which didn’t help the earth morning.

Have you tried tag teaming it.

One of you set alarm for 4.15. slip out scoop them both up and downstairs straight into coats and out for a early walk, yep even in winter, they will love a boots and coats winter walk with torches.
If you have a car then into the car drive to warm up briefly then radio on and breakfast in car this should take you till 6am. Then home.
Each does this one day on one off.

I had two under two with a DH that worked away and no family help.
DS was a 5am waker, so l did;

Alarm at 4.50 to grab a strong cup of tea (essential!) As ds woke l put him in stroller, got DD dressed warmly, dog lead on dog and went out ...(.admittedly l felt safe where l lived) Walked to park 30 minutes, dcs had mini torches which they loved.
Most of the year it was getting light by the time l got there, so dcs out of buggy, breakfast was in the park for 9 months of the year at least...dog had run, dc let off steam, l blearily nursed my flask of coffee....
On return they were calmer and Tv kept them happy for a good hour while l showered........

This all only works if you get to sleep earlier.
If yours are asleep by 6pm, then you can easily be asleep by 9pm.

From 6 months mine went down at 7pm, so l was in bed by 9am, alarm set for sleepy11pm nappy changes and bottle then back to sleep.

I sacrificed a social life to have more sleep and a routine that avoided screaming children at all costs. I was happier, coped better and enjoyed those short few years more. Now they are 15 and 16 l miss the toddler years! But l do not regret the priority l gave them for that time.

29 month old still having naps is expected. Those that don't tend to fall into two catagory:- (a) they have really long night sleeps so don't need it (b) they have ingrained poor sleep habits.

Your 2yo having a nap - and your 1yo having two naps per day - is what I'd suggest happens in order to shift your sleep routine to a later bedtime and later wake up

It's normal for 2 year olds to nap?
Let him nap in the afternoon, snack and bedtime later

He doesn’t sleep later if he has a nap though, that’s what I’m telling you.

It means he goes to bed later, that is all. So instead of getting some quiet time in the evening we get none and are still up at 4:30

So in reality who ever is looking after them in the day has to have 1yo having a 10-11 nap then 2yo having a 11-1nap then 1yo having a 13:30-14:00/14:30 nap? nice.

weve tried all of the practical things people usually try, we need to learn to live around it like doing chores in am instead etc

So in reality who ever is looking after them in the day has to have 1yo having a 10-11 nap then 2yo having a 11-1nap then 1yo having a 13:30-14:00/14:30 nap? nice.

No.

• 1yo naps 9.00-9.45am
• 1yo and 2yo both nap from 1pm, woken 3pm if not awake
• 1yo bedtime starts at 8.00pm
• 2yo bedtime starts at 8.30pm
• Or if you prefer joint bedtime, both at I.30pm

I speak from the experience of my oldest two (of four) children being 14 months apart. Plus lots of experience advising Mums on baby sleep issues.

Correction: Or if you prefer joint bedtime, both at 8.30pm

Op. I listened to fate regarding my 430am/5am baby. It worked, along with pink noise for us and darkened room, adding a supper. A lot of people know and take fates advice. She works wonders.

You have to give a new routine a good period of time. Worked in about 1.5 weeks for us. However i will say that changing other things in my Los routine took more 6 weeks.

My ds could be kept up until midnight and he'd still wake up at 5.30am, later bedtime made no difference.

I honestly believe the key to bed time chaos is consistency. They get up, you put them back to bed with no chats or bananas or whatever, they get up again you put them back AGAIN and again and again every single time.

I considered anything before 8am night waking. Ie not putting the lights on, not speaking, check not hot/cold/wet/thirsty/hungry then me back to bed.

I think your early dinner bed routine is madness!

If you are going to put them down that early then you need a 8pm bedtime for yourself.

OP I feel for you. You are in the trenches and will have low resilience whilst you are so tired. The only way out of this is to follow @FATEdestiny suggestions + telling nursery no more 4:30pm tea. You will have a tough few weeks but by mid December it will be okay and you will be so grateful you did it. Good luck.