People keep telling me I’m depressed, isn’t this just hell for anyone?

[Secondchildregret]

4:30am (if we’re lucky, once it was 3:30am)
every single day..
without fail.

Both of them are up screaming, shouting, whining, crying.

I give them milk and a banana and they continue to fight scream and cry.

Will not go back with anything we’ve tried it all - paid a sleep consultant… everything.

My eyeballs ache most days
im cloudy and can’t concentrate
I just want to fucking sleep I want to go to sleep in silence and rest in the knowledge that I am going to wake up when I’m fully rested in silence and have a chance to come around before being shouted or screamed at.

I work ten hour shifts to give them everything they need and they just won’t let me sleep.. ever..

By the time I’ve finished sorting out all the crap from them throughout the day/evening it’s post 9pm, half hour of silence to myself then to sleep.

We still frequently get broken sleep because it’s cough season and they cry all the time

They can’t even play in their rooms quietly so I can at least have some rest in silence, one steals the others dummy and they fight over it.

it’s not a lot to ask.. imo

Too early a bedtime results with this madness. 4:30pm teatime and then nothing to eat until breakfast the next day is why they wake up hungry.

As pp suggested extend bedtime by an hour with either park, activities or bit of TV. Then a later bath at 6pm with a supper of banana and milk or cereal & then bedtime. It'll take a few days to adjust but the supper near bedtime should prevent a midnight snack later.

That sounds awful. Can you take turns on the weekend to have a lie in? That’s the only thing that saved me, was the occasional lie in. I’d book them in in advance

Maybe it's too soon after their dinner at childcare.

I'd try a combination of keeping them up later and giving banana and milk or porridge before a letter bedtime so they aren't hungry at 4.30am.

Then because they are in a 4.30 wake up body clock wise you need to do the back to bed routine then because you are safe in the knowledge they aren't actually hungry.

It's fine to ignore them screaming - otherwise they just learn it gets them what they want even if it's not best for them.

I'd also consider those days you are at home staying at home and chilling for a bit. Out for the day at 8/8.30 on a day off could be over stimulating them.

People think making children really tired makes them sleep. It can actually make them too overtired and they can't.

So I'd do dinner for you at 5/6pm. Then a nice walk or scooter - the fact it's currently dark will help calm them because fake light can be stimulating.

Home - bath - snack and bed. Then sleep training at stupid o clock in the morning. I'd even consider taking a week off to stick at it every morning and stay at home inbetween whilst you and dh catch up on some sleep on a rota.

The 1yo is a 6pm bedtime guy, has been since birth. We thought he was a unicorn because 6pm hit and he just cries until he’s on his own in his cot. No fussing to get to sleep just in cot alone and he’s out.

The 2yo we’ve had a lot longer to try different things and we’ve tried 7pm bedtime 8pm bedtime. There have been occasions when he’s gone to bed at 9pm/10pm if we’ve been on day trips or staying over family’s houses and stilllllll gets up at that time.

We will retry foot later, something stodgy and maybe sweet so they eat as much as poss. Definitely moving folding laundry to the am😀

if the kids are asleep by 18:30 then what's stopping you from going to bed at 7pm or 8pm? This is what I used to do when I had an early waker.

The thing is any changes you make to routine takes up to 3 weeks to see a change. Sometimes longer.

Is it pitch black in los room? I had to black out every single room and shut downstairs doors to prevent any light.

Sorry op this sounds exhausting. As others have said about increasing food in evening, would it help to sit with them at the tv and give them something they really like for snack eg. Flapjack, hot chocolate. Up the milk intake in evening. Give in a bottle if prefer. Maybe not worry about them soaking through by morning. Try different nappies eg. Pampers night ones I think some people find them better for overnight. Or get a reusable nappy cover and put it over the nappy it would keep in any leaks. I would also try getting bedtime later again but combine it with the extra food and minimal interaction in the morning.maybe if could make a makeshift bed on floor in each room one go in to each and if they really awake put a cartoon on your phone and lie next to them with it..I know you said you tried later bed before but I think that with increased evening food and milk and trying to stay in bed might work. Anyway best of luck with it your doing amazing to cope sounds very hard.

Oh I didn't see about the nappies soaking. We had that issues. We brought some boosters from kitkin. We pop 2 to 3 in of a night with a nappy and knickers to keeps nappy in place and no more leaks for us. We use pampers overnight and use a bigger size too.

I don’t think there’s such thing as a baby that needs to go to bed at 6. There are countries in the world where babies go to bed at 10 from birth all the way to adulthood - the rest of the day adjusts around that.

push the bedtime back by 30 mins for 3 weeks, then another 30 for 3 more weeks. Ensure he has 2 daily naps. Ask nursery not to give food at 4:30 anymore and start giving it at 5:30 yourself at home - they’ll be hungry and grouchy at first.

when you’ve established both kids on a 7pm bedtime they can have their 4:30 nursery meal again and rice pudding or cereal at 6:30 at home.

Definitely as pp said. Our nursery offers dinner at 430pm and my lo refuses it as her routine is between 5pm and 530pm. It worries nursery like crazy. But she scoffs dinner at home.

Your 1 year old definitely needs two naps.

Also if I put my lo to bed at 7pm she's up at 530am. 8pm bed is more 630am. Sometimes 7am.

I'd do later bedtimes too. Not every child needs a 12-hour block. Some need 11 or 10, so if he's asleep by 6 and up at half 4, that's an entirely appropriate amount of sleep in terms of hours. If you have a lower sleep needs child then trying to get the mythical 7-7 out of them just doesn't work.

And it will be a shitty week or so while you adjust to later bedtimes, but it sounds shitty just now anyway so nothing to lose really.

The thing with kids I think you need to accept is that you often either have an evening to yourself and early nights or very little evening but a 'lie in' in the mornings.

How dare you tell someone who is clearly suffering that what they’re going through isn’t “hell”? Any parent of small children will read this and know exactly how hellish it is. As for your bunch of flowers - totally PA.

OP: it sounds like hell on earth and you have all my sympathy. Many of us have been there and we know that such sleep deprivation can quickly reduce you to a tearful wreck. Here’s a heartfelt 🌷

This!

I know it's hell but you need to be firm or you will get ill,kids need boundaries or everyone would be running round the house at 3am! Back to bed and let them cry.

You need to shift the whole routine later. Follow consistently for at least 3 to see a difference.

I'd move bedtime to 8pm and add in an evening meal.

It will be horrendous for a few weeks - with 4am wakes plus 8pm bedtimes. Allow for more daytime sleep to cope. 1yo can have morning plus afternoon nap. 2yo also likely to need lunchtime nap. Stick with the 8pm bedtime tho.

Agree with what a PP said about bedtimes and doing what can to push it later. With the 4.30 wake could also try tackle separately. Bring older one in bed or away downstairs and let one year old try settle themself in cot.

Appreciate you've used a professional here but honestly as hard as it may be they need to know they are not in charge. Feeding them and letting them play means that they wake up to nice stuff so that'll never break the cycle.

You're going to have to go cold turkey on them. Separate to sleep. If the scream for the rest of the morning that's up to them, but knowing they get nothing for their endeavours will eventually get through unless they have a medical condition in which case get it duagnosed and claim DLA so you can pay for help. Assuming no condition, you have to persevere and beat them.

You can also use reward. If they go back to sleep quietly all week, they can go to abc at weekend. Use a sticker chart even the youngest will like getting stickers.

Good luck OP, you are def sleep deprived and they need a better routine.

Seriously? Her toddlers wake at 4.30am every day and the solution is to have them in her bed?

MN is bonkers sometimes.

When I went to toddler groups, the vast majority of people with early wakers did the 5pm tea. I'm kind of geeky and spreadsheet-y and I found that most kids from the three groups I went to were waking up around 12hrs after their dinner, +/- 30 mins.

Three of them switched bath to morning and had tea just before bed and within a week were getting a couple hours more sleep. Do try this, 4.30pm is insanely early for dinner.

Agree with 6 being too early a bedtime but I can see its attractive when you are so tired. My 2 year old goes to sleep at about 730/8. In the meantime while you are trying to catch up on sleep make sure you go to bed as soon as they are sorted for the night. It is a bit depressing as you get no evening but at least you will get sleep.

I’m certainly not trying to claim anyone is wrong here but when we had a sleep consultant for DS (then 18 months) she told me that 8 was way too late for bedtime and 7 was the latest.

His sleep is mostly fine now apart from early wakeups (I think that’s teeth though) and so I don’t mind if bedtime ends up being around 730, but 8 does seem very late.

Agree with this actually. It will take some balls but I think this is the way to do it.

I suspect it’s the 14mo who is waking early and waking up the 2yo. My DC2 went through a phase of waking v early at around 14m and she got nothing, ever. It took a while and it was really stressful but eventually she started sleeping later.

Also look at how you’re structuring your 14mo’s naps during the day. I’m guessing he/she need a nap quite early on in the day because of the early waking, but if you can try pushing this later and later each day this will help. So if they’re napping at 10am try and gradually push this to 11am until they’re waking later, then 12, then ideally get it to 12.30pm.

It’s how we sorted it.

op you have my sympathies! I have been through the same and it almost broke me! I’d left my partner and moved my then 2 year old into a new home, lockdown hit and I didnt sleep for months! It was torture.
nothing fixed it but time and all the constant “advice” from people just made it worse.

for me, the only thing that really helped is for sleeping. It was awful to start with but he soon settled and we slept so much better. I have a kingsize bed and it’s just us two, so I appreciate it isnt for everyone.

Go to sleep super early (I still do now) and try not to engage in the night. Make it boring for them to be awake (I used to absolutely lose my tempter so I know it’s so so hard)

If 1yr old is still on the bottle dream feed them in their sleep one hour before they normally wake up.
Your kids are too over tired - when they go to sleep in the evening they quickly fall into a very deep sleep so when they wake lightly in a sleep cycle they are too refreshed and struggle to go back to sleep.
people think less sleep for children will result in a deeper sleep at night - not the case unfort

Do you / can you do one night one / one night off so you are getting sleep every other day?