I’m prepared to be told I’m a terrible mother but please hear me out.

[stillreallytired]

My 5 month old has had one half hour sleep between 1045 this morning and now.

He is screaming with exhaustion, and I’ve been sobbing as well.

I really need advice but it does need to be actual advice I can use. So:

The sling is a no go.

He will sleep in the pram but I don’t want to be overly reliant on this.

He will feed to sleep sometimes. But the problem is if he doesn’t I then have to wait until he’s hungry enough to accept another bottle.

Dummies don’t work as he spits them out or knocks them out of his mouth.

So - I’ve no idea but I am desperate.

Both mine were terrible sleepers too so I feel for you. After battling with naps and sleep with my first I decided not to it with my second.

So, if he refused to sleep at the first attempt, I would abandon it and do a 're-set'. I would get him up, go in another room and play for a bit or watch night garden and give him a sippy cup of milk, maybe a little snack. I'd keep him up for maybe 30/45 mins and then re-try getting him back to sleep.

Although this was a bit of a pain to do in the middle of the night it did tend to work - that extra few mins of awake time (and maybe the refreshments!) seemed to always get him to that state of being ready to sleep.

The other thing was that I found this much less stressful for me than rocking a screaming baby for hours in a dark room while weeping myself!

Don't know if you'll find that useful but this phase will pass. Everything feels overwhelming when you're exhausted - best of luck.

OP it's shit when you have a horrible day like this but you're martyring yourself pointlessly. Whatever you do to get him to sleep, pram, feed to sleep, whatever, isn't going to impact how he sleeps long term. This baby shit is a one day at a time thing. What works today, might not work tomorrow, so just do what you need to.

That is what I tried to do shadow but the problem is he was so tired I couldn’t do anything with him.

turn I’ve already explained this is not about making myself a martyr but about not going out with a pram with gale force winds.

I haven't read the whole thread, I apologise for that, but I didn't want to read and run either.

Firstly, sleep deprivation is awful, don't be so hard on yourself.

Secondly - you need to get him over this over tiredness first, so next nice enough day get him in the pram and walk him to make sure he naps.

Thirdly - some babies are just terrible nappers. My twins napped no longer than 30-40 minutes watcher nap unless I intervened as soon as they started stirring and rocked them back to sleep. Sometimes it failed and they were grumpy and tired and so was I.

In terms of getting him off to sleep, I rocked mine for their entire napping lives (up until they were 3yrs!) - it's not for everyone and it meant I didn't get as much downtime, but it did mean they slept and their awake time was less difficult.
Have you had any success with the car? I also remember doing a few drives to get them to go off.

@stillreallytired

Yes thanks but that doesn’t really help either of us. He just gets worked up and I can hear him anyway. Sorry if I sound sharp there but I need help with his sleep.

Use the pram, if it works use it.

And people wonder why I get a bit annoyed!

My dd was exactly like this and also was a terrible night sleeper, she spent the vast majority of her time screaming, the days felt endless and relentless and I was a walking wreck. I used to let her sleep in the pram in the day as this was the one place in the house she slept, at night we bed shared despite the advice not to as the cot was a no go. My best trick was to put her in her car seat, drive until she was asleep, park up on my driveway with doors locked and recline my own seat and sleep whilst she did. Think the engine sounds kept her asleep longer. Neighbour's no doubt thought I was mad but it got me through some long days. She's now nearly 15 and none of what I did in those early to get though has had a negative impact on her.

I get it, I've been there; my kid from age 6 months napped 3 times a day for 20 mins at a time. It was shit, but it's done and all is fine. I did whatever I could to get him to sleep, even if it was rock the pram for an hour in the living room. The reason people are repeating themselves is that we've all been through it; if absolutely nothing at all is working and baby is screaming for hours and hours every day, then you need to speak to a doctor, if it's a one off and he is massively overtired, then Chuck him in the pram and rock it. Or feed to sleep. Or use white noise. Try some extra milk. We used a hairdryer for weeks - next to DS head, believe it or not. A loud white noise app is fab. Tomorrow is another day and it won't be as shit as today.

Rocking or patting baby with music or white noise? Eldest liked being rocker, youngest likes his head patted. Constant exhaustion is so draining, I hope you find something that works.

I'd say pram too. We did whatever worked with our eldest, and what worked changed regularly so never became reliant on anything anyway.

I hope you're ok. It sounds like you've had an absolutely awful day. Hopefully you have some people around you and you might be able to get a bit of a break? Make sure your own mask is fitted before you help others, type of thing. I can't imagine how shattered you must be today, but I'm really hoping you can get some rest and take a breath. Looking after a baby is just the hardest thing. Sending love x

Hi OP,

I feel for you, and I think you're right about trying to offer a different sleep association now he will be attending nursery.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, as there are lots of comments and I only read yours!
But have you tried a 'stricter' routine with him?

How is his sleep at night?

At around his age I followed the Gina Ford book routine for about a week and my kid fell into the routine after that, we had less struggle with naps etc and after that I sort of edited the routine a little so suit us.

Sorry if that is unhelpful! But I've got a 2yr old and 3yr old and it helped with them.

Good luck, you can and will get through this, just keep in your head this is a phase and you'll soon be onto the next one- hopefully!

@stillreallytired

I feel it might be best if you stopped posting here flashy, I am not finding you helpful and you are adding to my upset.

If you're anxious he will sense it. Distraction is key, read him a book, sing him a song, lie down in your bed with him and put on white nose. He will not off before he knows it Alternatively, maybe he's a sweet baby that doesn't need a lot of sleep. Babies now a days tend to more cat nap through the day x

@stillreallytired

honey my baby had one half hour sleep in eight hours. I beg to differ.

My baby had a total of one hour forty five minutes sleep in a thirteen hour period. That is nowhere near enough.

It would not be a problem if he was just one of those babies who thrives regardless; he isn’t. He was tired and screaming with exhaustion. That’s distressing for us both.

He had three short naps and two of them were before 11 am.

Unfortunately, @stillreallytired, some days are just like that. There's no way to help, all you can do is survive until the next day - and sometimes that's even worse...

I know this is not what you want to hear but just as there was no way for anyone here to help you today, there was no way for you to help him. It's awful, it's distressing, it makes you feel like shit but it's just motherhood, some days, and you have to find a way to accept it. Have you never had those days where nothing seems to go right? Of course you have - today was one of them, and your baby is only human. Now and again he will have those days, through his whole life, and not being able to fix that doesn't make you a failure, or a bad parent etc.

I do think you need to address your PND (speaking as someone who also refused to deal with it for far too long). You don't necessarily have to talk about it that much. I just went to the doctor and said I have PND and need anti-depressants and was prescribed them. I didn't have to actually 'talk' about it at all. However after being resistant for so long, they changed my life and I only had to take them for a few months, they just got me over that hump.

And I realise everyone telling you they've been there isn't that helpful, but people really have. I thought I was going to get sectioned with my first, mostly due to sleep issues but here's the thing, apparently I was just the same as a baby. At the time it's shit but it does pass. That number one child now sleeps like an angel. It took years to get there but I did survive it and so will you - and so will your son and he will not be damaged by the bad days.

I walked the pram round the kitchen island in a circle at night. Sometimes rocking the pram backwards and forwards over a small bump created by a towel helped too. No idea why.

Some days are like it, yes.

I don’t think he’d be able to manage Gina Ford. He isn’t able to just nap when the routine says he should if you see what I mean.

OP, sounds like you've had a properly shit day. I can empathise. There is a certain horror in dealing with overtired babies that is hard to express.

You're looking for advice, and mine would be to not worry about things you cannot impact.

Nursery: children sleep at nursery. It's magic, they do all just lie down on the floor and sleep (or cots for babes obviously). Let them deal with this. No point worrying about it. Accept that they are professionals and all babies sleep at nursery as if by magic.

Nap routine: it's a tough one. Some babies don't self settle so option 1: you do what it takes to make them sleep even if that isn't ideal. Or 2. You encourage daytime naps but understand that you'll probably still have to do option 1.

My wise MIL told me to put DC in their cot for bed at 7pm every night. I laughed. She insisted. Every night, and the baby will cry, and you'll take her downstairs etc. And one night she won't, and she will sleep. And this was true, one night it worked. So I would keep trying with a dark room, smoothing music, nice routine and one day it will click.

You're at the hardest phase, it will pass. Your baby will nap, you will feel happier. You are a good mum. You're a good mum because you care enough to post several times, because you want your baby to be happy.

And I don’t even think he’s a particularly bad sleeper. That’s what I’ve been explaining, it is me, I have caused this.

@stillreallytired You know him best, I hope you find something that works for you both x

[quote Kayjay2018]@stillreallytired if he has got himself in a state, are you able to give him a warm bath (maybe with you?) to calm him down and then try some skin to skin time? Even if he doesn't go to sleep maybe it will calm him a bit so he is more receptive?[/quote]
DD was (is) a terrible sleeper unless it's contact sleeping. Have you tried co sleeping for a nap? Will a warm bath, skin to skin and a big cuddle down to sleep work if the pram is absolutely a no go? I do understand what you mean as DD wanted the continuous forward pushing in the pram, not the back and forth sensation.
Longer term, honestly, I'd invest in a pram that can better withstand wind etc. I swapped my M&P for a baby jogger with an amazing wind proof hood and it's brill (and we have exceptionally strong winds here but I wrestled my grumpy toddler who wanted to walk but didn't want the wind whipping her face into it yesterday and it was instantly better for her).
Also if baby is inconsolable try the leopard in a tree hold (google). Are you sure there isn't something else amiss?

@stillreallytired

My youngest was a good sleeper but a dreadful napper. It happens. She's a champion at napping now, and she's 5!

Don't worry about Gina. Trust your instincts, babies have read the manual.

Haven't read the manual....definitely have not!!

You say he won't accept a dummy? A HV showed me that if you put a dummy in their mouth then gently tap to the same rhythm that they feed they will be more likely to accept it. I did this out of desperation when mine was 5 months old, it took a bit of perseverance but it worked and was a game changer.

Sleep deprivation is horrendous

Sorry posted early as said 2 year old got out of bed and is now playing a toy piano. I learnt that I can fight her for an hr to sleep or let her up for an hr and save us both an hr of heartache. You do learn as you go along what works for you. No-one becomes a Mum and knows all these things and then some of us have worse sleepers than others. Being sleep deprived is so so so hard. It very nearly wrecked my marriage.
What works for one baby will not work for all, it is being a matter of trial and error. I found out by mistake when cooking Christmas dinner the extractor fan on the cooker sent dd to sleep. We spent a lot of time holding her while standing under the extractor fan after that. Like you son she woke up as sokn as we turned into our driveway , it was mental, I could never understand it. I think it must have been the change in speed of movement. To be honest what i did most times was just go to bed with her (she would sleep when curled into me after spending a whilw poking me). I spent a lot of times walking round and round the bedroom and up and down the hall with her screaming but sticking with it, she eventually gave in to sleep. She definitely had FOMO.
You will be reading someone elses message like yours in 4 years time and thinking, i know how she feels and juat want to tell ger, YOU ARE DOING a GREAT JOb, you will get through this and it will be a distant memory,

Big hugs, OP. You will get through this.

@stillreallytired

I’m trying hamburger but everyone is just fixating on the pram.

I guess that’s it then. He will only sleep in the pram outside.he’s going to nursery soon where that won’t happen, so he’ll be overtired and exhausted all the time and I’ve done that

All day I kept thinking he’d give in and sleep, he just can’t. So I don’t know what I can or should do. That’s why I’m reach out out here even though I knew I’d get abuse. I think it’s what I deserve.

I am shit at this and should never have done it.

And don’t remove this post please MN. I want it to stay. I want to have it here just how shit I am.

Also nursery have some sort of bewitching magic they use on non sleepers and despite every nap being either 45 mins in a pram of 3 hours cuddled up with me, she does a respectable 1 and 1/2 hours daily there in a little sleep pod with no co sleeping whatsoever. He'll sleep at nursery! (And I absolutely don't believe there is even a hint of crying it out or anything with her, she just settles right down at 1pm every day. I think it's because they have a routine and she recognises her sleep cues there)