Anyone else trying to gently sleep train?

[MrsIH]

Dd2 is 13 months old and always been a crap sleeper. The longest stretch of sleep (up until very recently) I’ve had is 3 hours and that is on a good night. Generally I think she was waking 2 hourly but I’ve had nights of every 45 minutes. I have a dd1 who is 3 but who is thankfully a good sleeper.

I’m not at work atm luckily and I have no tolerance really for the crying methods. They’re just not for me so I’m not looking for suggestions or justifications of them.

What I’m trying is getting her to fall asleep in the cot and also trying to reduce feeds (she is breast fed) over night.

Anyway the falling asleep in the cot is going well. She did last night but some nights I’m still putting her down asleep as I pick her up and cuddle her if she cries. Frustratingly last night she woke up after 2 hours even though she’d fallen asleep in the cot. I think I got her back down ok but then she woke after another 2 hours. Then I was up for 2 hours trying to settle her. I gave in and fed her in the end although she still didn’t go back to sleep! DH managed to get her down in the end. So I’ve had about 5 hours broken sleep which isn’t great.

Basically looking for anyone else trying to do a similar thing and some moral support. I’m desperate to improve sleep as it’s so hard having her and her sister all day on my own on broken shit sleep!

@MrsIH that sounds much better than before! I'm glad theres been an improvement. I had a similar night ti the one before. Just up alot. Wouldnt settle. Alot of feeding last night! I'm thinking teeth! I'm exhausted this morning.

LunaLula83: Glad it worked for you so quick, I am only a few weeks into it but omg we both feel so much better now we are getting our sleep. My lo also points to bedroom when we coming to the end of bedtime routine and when I ask if she wants to go to bed she says yes, it's so cute 😀

Obviously there are different arguments. The first few years are also when children are developing attachments and learning emotional regulation, which are arguments against CC. You could read Why Love Matters and The Book You Wish Your Parents had read.

Tbh it doesn’t surprise me a sleep therapist who is paid to get babies to sleep is telling mums the reasons to let them cry.

But I think my point is that it’s not helpful to come onto a thread that’s meant for supporting parents who are not using CC and talk about CC. There are zillion threads about CC and a zillion internet pages so it’s not hard to find out about it.

Anyway I’m leaving this now as don’t want thread more derailed.

@HakunaMatataa you poor thing. My dd wants lots of comfort feeding when teething so I bet you’re right.
Hope you can take it easy today.
One thing this thread shows is that we all get a good night at some point so hang in there!

Also forgot to mention lots of kisses, cuddles ( I know we all do this anyway but more so when sleep training) and stimulation during the day will help with your little ones sleep. Going to play groups, soft play, out for walks all help

I think most parents are flailing in the dark when it comes to sleep training and are actively considering most options at anyone time - I know I am - currently have a six month old ebf baby who wakes every hour and its killing me. I managed to do gentle/gradual retreat with my first baby at 6 months but it just isn't working with this one.

So I'm very grateful to Hannah511 and Clare543210 (not sure how to tag people as don't often write on mumsnet) as I'm having to actively consider other options now too. I feel that even if you start the thread it quickly goes out of your hands so all comments are valid.

I am considering the approach that I do the bedtime routing without feeding to sleep, put him in his cot and then sit next to him while he falls asleep, reassuring him. I'm hoping that by not leaving him he will just be frustrated and angry that he is outside his comfort zone of how he wants to fall asleep but won't feel 'abandoned'. To be honest, I'm dreading having to settle him throughout the night like that. I'm dreading the whole thing tbh. But I cannot continue with a baby waking every one hour and looking after an only just 3 year old in the day. The baby just needs to be taught a new, more sociable habit otherwise I feel its the dog wagging the tail and the whole family falling apart because the wee one has got into some unhelpful habits.

obvs meant the tail wagging the dog!

Hazelwood1: I know exactly how you feel, it took me 7 months of hardly no sleep and feeling like a zombie every day to finally realise I had to get a grip and sort this out. I at first tried sitting next to her cot while she fell asleep which would take about 45 mins, would sometime have to resettle early hours and would still wake early but I was just glad to b getting some sleep. Then my lo got a cold and I did whatever she wanted to make her feel better, rocking, on bed with me. After she got over her cold she would not go to sleep with me sat there sometimes would b there for 90 mins before giving in and rocking to sleep. This is when I decided enough was enough, I couldn't carry on this way anymore. It really was the best thing I ever did. I wish you luck and hopefully soon you will get the well deserved sleep you need x

@HakunaMatataa It does sound like it’s teeth, especially as it was quite a sudden change. Horrible to deal with though. I don’t have any advice as I’m not sure what helps with teething at night, we are not there yet with DS2 and DS1’s sleep was so bad it was hard to tell whether teething bothered him or not 😬

We had another mixed night, but I still feel like we are making progress. We stuck to the new plan of feeding him downstairs before bedtime routine and DH giving him a bottle at first waking. As I predicted he protested a bit more about not being fed right before sleep, but with hugs and shushing he eventually settled by himself in his cot. And slept until 11! That’s the longest evening we’ve had.

The 11pm feed with the bottle was tough though, and I had to take over from DH to settle him. But on the plus side I used the bottle and not breastfeeding - I really would like to swap that feed for a bottle so DH can help out a little bit with the nights. And he eventually settled in his cot by himself with me sitting next to him and picking up, rocking, shushing when he got upset.

After finally falling asleep at 12 DS then woke at 1 and 2.30, and took a few attempts to get back down at 2.30. But then slept until 7!

So we are definitely seeing improvements, although it’s a challenge. But when I think back to just before Xmas when he was awake every night until 9pm, sleeping on me until 11, and then waking every 1.5 to 2 hours for the rest of the night, I can’t believe how far we’ve come!

@MrsIH How was your night?

Wow @Colinthedog that's amazing progress! Well done you!
I agree it's probably teething. Hes always like this when getting a tooth. I just feel like I feed ALL night bless him.

@Colinthedog that is great! So much progress and that last sleep must’ve felt amazing!

Dd2 is a nightmare with teeth @HakunaMatataa and I feel like I feed her / let her comfort suck all night. So I feel your pain! Hoping things are better tonight for you.

So my night saw progress. The settling in cot was good and didn’t take long. Initial sleep was 4.5 hours which is good for her and then 2 more wakings up for the day at 6.45. I only fed her twice and settled her in her cot after some shushing at the last wake. So that is real progress.

I feel like at the first wake she is doing proper drinking rather than suckling so I’m not sure what to do. I think tonight I’ll just feed her then and try resettling without feeding for other wakes. I’ll see how that goes and then I might try reducing that first feed along the lines Hakuna’s sleep lady suggested.

Dd2 has a cold as well so need to take it slow the next few days!

@MrsIH That’s great, sounds like your night was similar to mine.

Good luck for tonight everyone! DS also managed a 2 hour nap in his cot today so I’m hoping that helps!!

Yep good luck everyone! That’s great about the nap @colin Bizarrely dd had crap naps today after I posted yesterday that she napped well I swear they can somehow see what we post and also see through walls to when we lie down!

She was easy to settle just now with lots of back stroking. But poor thing has got a steaming nose so keeping my expectations of sleep fairly low!

LunaLula83: tonight was singing twinkle twinkle to my lo as I do every night and she started waving her finger saying no, no, no and pointed to her cot. Laid her down and she snuggled up and went straight to sleep. So pleased that she actually wants to go to bed and knows when she needs sleep (also pleased with myself that I helped her to get to this point) I feel for everyone on here that is somewhat sleep deprived, I have been there and whatever method you use I wish you all luck x

How was everyones night last night?

I tried something new. I dream fed him last night before I went to sleep at 10.30. He drank loads. He woke again at 2 and again at 5.30 and both times I managed to settle him without feeding and hes still asleep now! Feels like progress.

Dream feeds are a wonderful thing, I used to do it with my lo

We had a very surprising night. Went to a party at 2.30 and DS skipped a nap. Fell asleep around 4ish (not ideal so close to bedtime) but thought he'd wake up when we went home & I'd be able to give him dinner. He did wake up but went back to sleep and then despite a couple of wake ups went back to sleep each time and DH woke up before DS did 😱 shocked. And grateful.

But can't say it's anything we've done. I for sure thought he'd be up at 3am hungry for a hearty breakfast!

That's great @HakunaMatataa! I've never been able to dream feed DS though I haven't tried in since he was teeny tiny so might be worth a shot tonight!

Ahh well done that's fab!! Glad you've seen some progress. Yeah it worked really well and it helped me so I knee he wasnt hungry when waking. Not sure if I should dream feed as he may be too old for it. But hey, if it works!

But she said it is the only way baby will learn to fall asleep independently and the night sleep is when the brain processes what they have learned that day.
The first part of that sentence is utter utter garbage. Babies do NOT need to cry in order to learn to fall asleep. And an nhs practitioner saying that should be ashamed.

Try looking at the Dr Jay Gordon night weaning method for some gentle sleep stuff - and his advice on the whole is lovely and gentle and he is a real attachment parenting guru.

Also for some reassurance- I have 4 children and can assure you they do eventually sleep on their own. And not one of mine has cried themselves to sleep- well not until they were a teenager with some heart break or other!

drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

SisterA: how long does your lo nap for during the day. I ask because my lo is similar aga and I was letting her have 2.5 hours which is recommended (1.5 in morning & 1 in afternoon). Like you one day we were at a family gathering so she missed her Afternoon nap, had 15 mins on way home. Gave her some tea n she was in bed and asleep for 6. This was in the middle of our sleep training but that was her first good night. I have now changed Afternoon nap to just 30 mins. Because her morning nap time varies, afternoon nap time can vary too but I found as long as she only has 30 mins it doesn't matter what time she has it she is still tired come bedtime. Before when she was having an hour it had to be at a certain time otherwise she would be tired come bedtime.

Should have read: She wouldn't be tired come bedtime

@Claire543210 that's really interesting as I'd always read that sleep breeds sleep and good day naps will encourage good nights sleep as they won't be over tired...

He's in nursery full time though & they said he just takes himself somewhere quiet when he's tired/tends to nap in the pushchair. He seems to have about 30mins in the morning usually and then about 1.5hrs in the afternoon around 1.30pm.

I would ask them to try and limit his naps but he can actually fall asleep anywhere and any time and regularly crawls over to fall asleep in a cuddle! Boy just knows when he's sleepy. For all it's worth he's not much of a sleep fighter. It just obviously annoys him when he wakes up in the middle of the night and doesn't instantly fall back asleep.

Isadora 2007: I think what the sleep practitioner was saying was that I was not giving her the chance to fall asleep on her own. The slightest little thing and I would b in her room. Yes all children will eventually learn to sleep but at what age? It is not healthly for baby or mum/dad to be having such poor quality sleep. I don't agree with the whole leave for 5 mins, then 10, then 20 or some who leave until baby falls asleep. I was going into her every 2 mins to reassure her to start and maximum of 5 mins but I was lucky my lo took to it really well. Before I started the sleep training I had tried everything and was at my wit's end. lo would not go to sleep in her cot with me in the room at all so I then would rock her to sleep and transfer in cot but eventually this stopped working, then it was in bed with us so I had tried everything between the age of 7 months-14 months. Knowing what I know now though and how quick the process was I wish I had done it sooner, 7 days is so much easier and kinder than 7 months

SisterA: I know that was what I had read and was told too. I was so strict with making sure she had the right amount of sleep but then when I spoke to a HV at weigh clinic she said every child is different. For instance some sleep 10 hours at night, others 12. I think because my lo has such a long morning nap she only needs a catnap in the afternoon to see her through until bed. If Ur lo is only having 30 mins than 30 in afternoon would b too little. Your little man sounds adorable by the way 😀