Anyone else trying to gently sleep train?

[MrsIH]

Dd2 is 13 months old and always been a crap sleeper. The longest stretch of sleep (up until very recently) I’ve had is 3 hours and that is on a good night. Generally I think she was waking 2 hourly but I’ve had nights of every 45 minutes. I have a dd1 who is 3 but who is thankfully a good sleeper.

I’m not at work atm luckily and I have no tolerance really for the crying methods. They’re just not for me so I’m not looking for suggestions or justifications of them.

What I’m trying is getting her to fall asleep in the cot and also trying to reduce feeds (she is breast fed) over night.

Anyway the falling asleep in the cot is going well. She did last night but some nights I’m still putting her down asleep as I pick her up and cuddle her if she cries. Frustratingly last night she woke up after 2 hours even though she’d fallen asleep in the cot. I think I got her back down ok but then she woke after another 2 hours. Then I was up for 2 hours trying to settle her. I gave in and fed her in the end although she still didn’t go back to sleep! DH managed to get her down in the end. So I’ve had about 5 hours broken sleep which isn’t great.

Basically looking for anyone else trying to do a similar thing and some moral support. I’m desperate to improve sleep as it’s so hard having her and her sister all day on my own on broken shit sleep!

Ugh. Mine is 14 months and has slept like shit for about 3 months now. He's never slept through but just lately is either up 3 times or twice but for hours. He had a bottle at 7.30, one at 11 and is now awake a-bloody-gain so am breastfeeding.
I just do not want to see him any more between 11 and 5 at least!

@SisterA what ever stage you're on of gradual retreat. If they wake in the night you just do exactly what you were doing before. Start wherever you like for example, if you feed to sleep. Probably start at the top, but if you pat to sleep then start there.

Well we had an awful night last night he woke up at least 4 times, wouldn't settle so I fed everytime and now I feel silly. Like I've just undone everything

Morning everyone. Sorry to everyone who had a rubbish night, hope tonight is better.

@HakunaMatataa I’m sure you haven’t undone everything, something might just have unsettled him. Fingers crossed it was just a blip.

@puds11 Mine is also a bad napper. Only naps for about 40 mins, and even when in motion in the pram he will wake and not go back to sleep. I wonder if that contributes to the waking at night. That and the fact that he still won’t put any food in his mouth and is therefore hungry!

Our night was ok, feel like we made some progress. I took his feed out of his bedtime routine, so I did that first downstairs. He wasn’t too happy at first to be put down without being fed to sleep, but after some rocking and shushing to make him drowsy he eventually settled by himself in his cot. He kept looking up to make sure I was still in the room though, so I think there’s some separation anxiety going on. But for the first time in ages he didn’t wake after an hour! He stirred but settled himself, and went until 9.00!

We had also decided to switch his first feed of the night to a bottle with DH. Again he protested a bit at first, but eventually drank it and DH managed to settle him in his cot. He then went until 1.30, so a good 4 hours. After that it was 4.30, and then up for the day at 7.

If he stays like this, and it’s a big if, I feel like it’s manageable for now. DS1 was still waking every 45 mins at this age, so I know it could be a lot worse. I’d just like to get to a stable base of 3 feeds a night that we can work from. Then when he’s bigger and hopefully eating (he has to eat at some point, right? ) we could start to work on dropping a feed.

I bet he’s up every hour tonight now that I’ve said that

That's brilliant @colin sounds like progress I think I jinxed myself yesterday. Fingers crossed last night was a one off! I will report back.

They do say sleep promotes sleep so once day time naps are better in theory night sleep should be better. If they're waking under or around 45 minutes that's no a sleep cycle so once they can self settle it helps. Sometimes DS wakes after half hour at nap time but I dont go in for 5 mins or so and he usually goes back to sleep.

@HakunaMatataa I’m really struggling with his naps. I always leave him when he first wakes, and sometimes I think he’s going to go back to sleep. But he usually wakes up. We’ve had the odd longer nap for an hour and a half or two hours, but I could count them on one hand. I took him out in the pram for his afternoon nap yesterday specifically to try to get him to have a longer nap. I was pushing him when he woke up and for a moment I thought he might go back to sleep. But even though he was in motion and obviously tired he still woke up

I had exactly the same. I feel your pain it's so frustrating. Especially when you know they are still tired. What's really helped for me is the exact same nap times everyday. It used to take us 20 mins to get him to sleep and it would never be over 30 mins. That and putting him to sleep at first signs of tiredness but tbh by the time we realised he was tired it was too late. Best time is when they start going quiet and staring into the distance If that makes sense. By the time hes yawning and rubbing hes eyes we had missed that 'sweet spot'

I must admit I’m not very consistent with nap times. With DS1’s schedule, baby classes and days out we are a bit all over the place. I’m also not sure if he needs 2 or 3 naps. It’s very possible we are putting him down too late. I really struggle to stay in all day but I might have to dedicate a few days to experimenting with nap times and see if it helps.

Yeah that's understandable. I was at my wits end so like dedicated myself too it. It's hard because there isnt much waking time between both naps and in that time we do lunch ect. The last wake time is the longest. But I put him down at 9.15 in his cot and left the room. He didnt cry just went straight to sleep and it's been just over an hour and half so far. If you Google their age and nap schedule it may give you an idea on how many to aim for. I appreciate it's difficult. I thought I had an alright routine until the sleep lady came and she basically tore me a new one and made me feel guilty. In fairness I thought she was nuts. But it did work.

Sorry you had a bad night @HakunaMatataa. Hope it was just a blip and tonight is better for you. It is gutting to have a shit night after you feel like you’ve got somewhere.

Glad you made progress @Colinthedog. Hoping for good things for you tonight.

On the naps - dd is ok now (and I do all the wrong things and feed/rock to sleep!). I think it’s luck / developmental as I have done nothing. Except I try to stick to 3 hours awake time rather than strict nap times. Baby sleep site website has a guide to awake times / number of naps that I like. But obvs life gets in the way - particularly dd1s schedule. She doesn’t nap well if she’s not in the cot. And i totally hear you on the restrictive schedule. I have a love / hate relationship with naps.

Our night last night was ok sort of - only 3 wake ups but easy to get back to sleep each time. But we only tried for 30 mins at her first wake and then I fed her. It was only 11 ish so I know she doesn’t need it. Really don’t know how to handle that first wake.

Dd1 is giving dh a hard time tonight going to sleep so I’m feeling a bit fed up with it all!

Good luck tonight everyone!

Good luck everyone! I’m stepping back from sleep training for the moment. Think I’m going to focus on cracking weening first then re visit. I’ll probably keep reading for tips but for now I’m going to push pause.

Thank you @MrsIH, he seemed super tired tonight and settled himself pretty quickly so I'm just going to silently hope. I hope DD1 goes to sleep soon! It can be so hard when the other one is playing up. My eldest doesnt seem to want to go to bed ever at the moment. At least he sleeps all night though
I half hour is good. I gave up before that last night. Most of the night we co-slept and fed so you done better than me!
It's nice having this thread for a bit of support and to know you're not alone.
I hope everyones nights go okay and the big little people sleep well!

@puds11 I hope the weaning goes well! Have fun! I think it'll be better once solids are properly established so then you can be reassured it isn't hunger causing the wake ups.

Thanks @Hakuna and thanks to all for sharing advice and experience

Yes good luck with the weaning @puds11. Agree with @hakuma that it’s easier to feel reassured they’re not hungry when they’re eating well. And maybe things will improve on there own for you anyway. I hope so. The sleep deprivation is hell.

Hakuna not hakuma! See that’s the sleep deprivation for you!

Thanks @MrsIH hope the training goes well for you

Just wanted to share my experience as I was so against cc method and had spent months of spending so much time trying to get my (now 14 month) old asleep with many wake up during the night, early wake ups, putting in bed with us because I was just so tired to do anything else. Now in a matter of 10 days l lay my lo in her cot, she closes her eyes and goes to sleep without a single tear. This is what worked for me (before this I did try gradual retreat but didn't work for us). Usual bedtime routine (bath, dressed, bottle, take into her room and sing twinkle twinkle while having a cuddle for about a minute) kiss goodnight, love you and walk out of room. The first 2 nights I hated, I would go back into her room every 2 mins, lay down and shhh (no talking, no eye contact) it took about 30 mins. Night 3 & 4 took between 10-15 mins. I then learned that she would cry more the more I went into her room and it felt like I was teasing her, (crying because she wanted me, I then go in but then am having to leave her again) so for the next couple of nights, I would go in the usual 2 mins but then decided to wait 5 mins. Nights 5 & 6 she was asleep within them 5 mins. Night 7 took 3 mins, night 8 took 2 mins. Nights 9&10 was asleep within a minute and since then I have been able to lay her down with no crying and straight to sleep. Would also like to add no night wakings apart from the first two nights (which even then was only her sitting up, cried out for 10 seconds or so and put herself to sleep) and also went from waking at 4am to now waking at 5:30, she goes to bed at 6:30 pm. I know it is so daunting to start any type of sleep training but it really is needed for a happy baby (also their brain development) and happy parents.

Look, with respect, I have heard of controlled crying. I’m not stupid. I’m choosing not to do it. I don’t agree with it. I think it’s cruel to leave a baby crying on its own when it wants comfort. There is also a body of evidence that suggests it’s damaging.

My own elder daughter is a wonderfully secure sleeper. She wasn’t from day 1 but she knows that someone will always comes if she cries.

I’m sorry to rant but I haven’t looked at or gone on CC threads so please don’t come on here talking about it either. Any mum knows that the quick fix option is leaving the baby to cry. The parents on this thread are choosing not to do it.

So imagine you’re really distressed and your main care giver won’t look at you or talk to you. Jeez.

Anyway back to the thread,

I actually had a good night - went to sleep at 7, up for the day at 6.45. 3 wakings but I only fed her twice. I did feed at that first waking. I didn’t even try not to tbh as was tired and I wasn’t feeling it. But at least at the 4 am wake it was an easy get back to sleep!

Hope others saw progress!

MrsIH - wasn't directing my post at you but other mother's seeking advise. Again this info is not for you MrsIH so no need to comment. I was given this advise from a sleep therapist who was referred to me by my health visitor on the NHS. On her first visit I told her I was against leaving my baby to cry, she said they do not advocate it either (for long periods or if baby is becoming too distressed). But she said it is the only way baby will learn to fall asleep independently and the night sleep is when the brain processes what they have learned that day. Also my lo is so much more happier in the mornings than she used to be. We both have a lot more energy so our days are so much easier, fun and stimulating.

But people aren’t here seeking advice on controlled crying. And there is a lot of information out there about it. So why post on a thread where people are specifically trying not to do that?

Believe me it is not the only way to get a baby to go to sleep on their own. What a ridiculous thing to say.

I am merely offering another opinion to those who wouldn't even look at cc method websites (as I wouldn't) this is a much gentler approach as you are not leaving you child to cry endlessly but just giving them the opportunity to put themselves to sleep. For those who are not so narrow minded please be aware that when your child enters a deep sleep this is when the brain allows for memories to be moved to long-term storage areas of the brain, lack of sleep has profound effects on children's ability to learn and their overall brain development. When a child gets a proper night's sleep, they have maximum concentration, focus and attention. Given how much children learn in the first few years we should be doing whatever we can to help with this. Parents need to stop feeling guilty about letting their children cry a little (over the course of a week or so) and realise all the positive things they are preparing their children for.

Oh this method didn't work for us. Me and baby. So i resorted to the cry method out of frustration after 4 months. Baby was 10mths. A friend suggested wearing headphones, but not my partner (who doesn't seem at all affected by the crying!) One night was all it took and now we both sleep really well. Then after a year into own bed and now at 19mths she runs to bed in the dot every night. Don't write it off