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Original poster

4yo doesn't sleep and won't sleep for anyone else, on my knees with exhaustion

163 replies

Rosegold84 · 30/03/2018 15:16

Just that really.
4.5 year old DS. Doesn't sleep, never has from being a baby really. I am a single parent with no input from his dad since pregnancy, so totally on my own. I can be up anywhere from 10-18 times on a night, I have tried him in his own room, in my bed, leaving him to it, you name it I've done it. Anything less than 10 wake ups is good, anything between 5-10 is excellent but he has never ever slept through and never woken up less than 3 times in one night.
GP not interested and won't prescribe anything to help.
I am utterly beside myself with sleep deprivation, I haven't had a good nights sleep in years. My parents have tried a lot to try and have him to sleep, usually one weekend a month but without fail end up bringing him back in the middle of the night or 6 am as he just won't settle for them and screams all night long. I am so tired. What can I do, mumsnetters? I'm desperate for one night.
Next time my parents attempt it, I may well just turn my phone off and unplug landline and make myself totally uncontactable.....

OP posts:
Theducksarenotmyfriends · 30/03/2018 22:18

Sorry haven't rtft but I would seriously take them back to the gp, get second opinion if necessary. It's not normal they're waking up so much at this age. My friend had the same situation, severely sleep deprived for 4 years. The doctor eventually suggested melatonin which massively improved things in their situation. Hope you get this sorted and get some sleep soon!

Original poster
Rosegold84 · 30/03/2018 22:18

You keep coming back to rub it in how it's all down to me because I won't subject my four year old to screaming all night long, when I won't subject my neighbours to it and when I'm trying to get to the bottom of why he doesn't sleep.
It is NOT down to molly coddling. I have said in my OP I have tried numerous options including his own room, leaving Him to it when he wakes, etc etc. The one thing I will not tolerate is leaving him to cry for hours on end.
If I am upset, I want someone to comfort and cuddle me. As a parent it's my fucking job to do that, when there is an issue. It's not about him being spoilt and winding me up and being in control . He doesn't want to jump on the bed and laugh all night as hot said - HE IS IN DISTRESS.
I doubt you even have kids.

OP posts:
Hotdoggity · 30/03/2018 22:19

There’s a shocking amount of parental judgement coming from those who are happy to let children too young to regulate their feelings cry alone!

Hotdoggity · 30/03/2018 22:20

I think deep down Camilla suspects she might be the reason her kids will need therapy one day, so she’s protesting a little too much.

Original poster
Rosegold84 · 30/03/2018 22:20

Hot, thank you. Flowers
thank you to everyone who has given kind advice and sympathies instead of telling me what a shit parent I am.

OP posts:
Camiila · 30/03/2018 22:21

whats the wind up?

you have come on here saying you can't cope with getting up 10+ times in the night for your school age child, I'm telling you, stop getting up to him then, it is totally unnecessary, you are doing it out of choice, stop doing it, or do it but stop complaining about it.

Your parents have him once a month, no one had my children ever, they didn't sleep through the night until they were 5-6, but after the age of 3 they knew better than to disturb me.

You are allowing him to wake you up. You have put no structure or boundaries in at all. its down to you. Don't allow him to. Thats all there is to it.

Nothing bad will happen to him if he stays in his own bed quietly if he wakes up. in fact, he will wake up less, and for less time than is he is allowed to get up and create a fuss. if he doesn't like the dark leave a night light on.

Its up to you if you want to put a stop to this situation or not. But as I said, if he has no boundaries at all at this age, how are you going to cope when he is 10, or 14?

butternutsquashe · 30/03/2018 22:25

@camilia I totally agree

CottonSock · 30/03/2018 22:26

Not read every comment, as some are clearly just having a dig.
I just wanted to say that apparently my sister was a terrible sleeper. One night she woke up for maybe the 20th time, my mum told her she just couldn't get up anymore. Apparently that was it. My mum was at breaking point, and suddenly she snapped out of it. Hopefully, it will get better and school will help. I would speak to hv again. They are supposed to support parents

Original poster
Rosegold84 · 30/03/2018 22:28

And if it turns out there is an underlying problem causing it-- is that my fault too, I'm guessing? He has plenty of boundaries. He's a happy little boy during the day. At night he turns anxious and upset and can't sleep for long and never has been able to.

OP posts:
NewBallsPlease00 · 30/03/2018 22:29

Look at the children's sleep charity, they saved my sanity

Hotdoggity · 30/03/2018 22:30

I’m so sorry you’ve encountered such hostility. I can only assume there are a few defensive guilty consciences on this thread. Good luck, OP.

Original poster
Rosegold84 · 30/03/2018 22:31

This is site is 'for parents by parents'
MN repeatedly say they want to make parents lives easier
But no let's just fucking pile on a single mum, struggling as it is with no support from the father, and tell her the reason her four year old doesn't sleep and gets visibly and audibly distressed on a frequent basis throughout the night is because she never set any boundaries, is crap and should just leave her distressed little boy to it instead of seeking help and further investigation. Because that would make me a cracking parent, wouldn't it, lescingvhim to scream his little heart out in the dark on a night subjecting my neighbours to the screaming. You've had your say, Im glad you're such brilliant parents in comparison to me.

OP posts:
Vickylou78 · 30/03/2018 22:34

Remember your doing great Op. can’t believe the two posters that are still repeatedly saying it’s your fault! no one ever spoilt their child with too much love or attention. And you are saying he is wakeful even when cosleeping so I don’t think it sounds like attention seeking to me at all. You keep going! Get back to docs and ask about adenoids, sleep apnea and allergies etc. Also maybe he will grow out of it. Despite was some say, he’s still really little.

Flowers

Original poster
Rosegold84 · 30/03/2018 22:36

Thanks Vicky and hot (who has been really supportive on this thread)
Have booked a GP appt for Thursday morning. Will write down everything I need to say before I go!

OP posts:
Hotdoggity · 30/03/2018 22:37

It is far harder to be the parent that relentlessly attends to their child than the one who shuts the door. I think you’re doing an amazing job and the right thing - anything less would exacerbate his anxiety. However, you need a break. I would go to the GP again and at the very least ask for an ENT referral who can facilitate a sleep investigation.

Parents who are unsure about the choices they make want everyone else to concur with them. It reaffirms the idea that they’re doing the right thing, and when the future of a child’s wellbeing and attachment is in question, the stakes are high, so people are defensive and hostile.

Your child is learning that you’re there for them even when their feelings aren’t easy to manage. He is associating fear and anxiety with maternal comfort. You’re absolutely doing the right thing, but you’ve done enough on you own now.

Original poster
Rosegold84 · 30/03/2018 22:38

I really don't understand how it can be my shitty parenting - he is four he is exhausted. He needs sleep. He gets distressed when he frequently wakes. He gets distressed with my parents. That is showing me something not right not just a 'snowflake child with no boundaries running rings around his mother'
I have no one to share the load. All of the parenting is down to me and solely me. I am trying my best for him, I really really bloody well am. It hurts me that strangers are sitting there with their opinions on my parenting when I asked for help with a situation neither me nor him want to be in.

OP posts:
LikesAnimalPark · 30/03/2018 22:46

Hi RoseGold, hope the Gp can help this time. We threw everything we had at getting my son to sleep in his own room and sleep well-ish - quiet fan for white noise, bed tent for feeling of safety, weighted blanket, nightlight. It did eventually work although some nights he's in with me and that is fine. He is autistic and bad nights are linked to bad days, and bad nights can lead to bad days so we do everything we can to help him get a decent night's sleep. Melatonin helps for getting to sleep but not for waking during the night. Hope you get some answers from your GP or one of the charities mentioned, and hope you can get some naps in for yourself during the day.

Hotdoggity · 30/03/2018 22:47

They don’t share your views on parenting. That’s find. We’re talking about your instincts and your conscience. Honestly, how can you be wrong? You wouldn’t leave anyone else to sob through the night, why on earth would you do it for your own little boy.

I really hope the doctors goes well. Remember, you don’t hear of Nancy teenagers that don’t sleep through on their own, but you hear of plenty that internalise shame about heir feelings and feel like a burden to their parents.

Hotdoggity · 30/03/2018 22:48

Ha, Nancy! I meant many.

Camiila · 30/03/2018 22:49

scream his little heart out in the dark

again, he is NOT little, and he doesn't need to be in the dark. Give him a night light

I'm giving up on this now, there is no point.

Hotdoggity · 30/03/2018 22:50

Please do.

cabb · 30/03/2018 22:52

again, he is NOT little

He's four! Is four not little anymore?!

Op ignore the cio brigade, you sound like a brilliant Mum and I really hope the gp can help, definitely sounds like there is an underlying issue going on, I feel for you both.

StewPots · 30/03/2018 22:54

Just rtft and to you @Rosegold84 It must be horrendous. I'm a long term insomniac and even I can't imagine this every night. There has been excellent advice from PPs on here and some great ideas, hopefully a "night diary" over a week to present to the GP will be helpful, possibly worth doing an audio recording to show how distressed he gets?

I know it sounds rubbish but how would it be if your parents stayed at your house and tag teamed with getting up? Yes you would still be disturbed but by not getting up you have more chance of getting a bit extra sleep? Not sure if that would work but just a thought in case.

Oh and to all you smug and judgemental "I'm so perfect" parents piling into the OP - shut up and pipe down. This thread is meant to find answers and support.

Come back to us in a few years when your little darlings aren't absolutely angelic examples of perfection who eat everything, sleep everywhere etc etc blah blah blah.

Because actually, having children isn't like that in RL. Just full of parents who couldn't dare think that their children could possibly do anything wrong ever Hmm

Oh and before anyone decides to kick off on me, my kids are really great, I've worked hard to set boundaries, never been in trouble at school or anywhere else yet but they make mistakes and will make a lot more because they're children. Let's hope you never need the help of MN eh?

StewPots · 30/03/2018 22:59

Oh and four is little! It's not a baby but babies aren't the be all and end all of everything to do with childhood ffs... there are issues beyond that age, with sleep too!!

I've never slept properly for the majority of my life since childhood for no real reason except that my body isn't wired for sleep. Never has, never will. Nothing to do with boundaries, reward charts, tough love...my parents were excellent, I had a solid routine for bed growing up yet made no difference.

That's just how it is so get your heads out your arses and except that different shit happens for different reasons and be supportive instead of being so bloody goady and rude to someone who's come here for a friendly bit of support.

Can you tell I've done a 13hr shift today on 3 hours sleep Grin

GinIsIn · 30/03/2018 23:08

Ok: some suggestions.

  1. It sounds counterintuitive but can you bring bedtime forward? 8pm is quite late for a 4yo and if he’s going down overtired, it’s already a bad start to the night.
  2. Gro clock. Explain to him that nightime is quiet, sleepy time, and that the clock will show him when it’s time to stay snuggled in bed. (This isn’t a magic solution, just an added level of reassurance for him)
  3. Be consistent - you have to do the same thing every time he wakes up. A breezy “back to bed, sweetheart - everything’s alright, it’s sleep time now.” and tuck him back in. Even if you have to do this 200 times the first night, the next night will be less and the one after less.
  4. Take him to choose his own new pjs and bedding, get his input on making his room a nice place to be. Explain to him that if he can’t sleep he can read or play quietly a bit until he’s sleepy, and give him the tools to do so.

Basically you want to offer consistent reassurance but not too much fuss and attention, and offer him some choices and solutions to get through the night.