New SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK thread - are we still here?

[PavlovtheCatthatgottheCremeEgg]

Another thread. My didn't we get full quickly! night sleeping good. Naps...not even 5 mins so far today...

Similarly odd night here, DD settled well at 7 and didn't wake until 12, fed and into my bed [lazy arse emoticon] woke at 2 (hungry? me thinks not) however fed due to tiredness back to sleep. Rudely awoken at 4 by what sounded like an African choir chanting up the road. Sounded beautiful but at 4? Anyway, felt a bit sureal because I live in Essex, hardly the multi cultural capital of the country. Anway, that and the birds had DD signing until 6 [very pissed off emoticon] fed and back to sleep 'til 7. No breakfast, slung a piece of toast and smeared banana and flatly refused porridge so now wants more milk and is tired!!!!!! See that's why those friggin routines that SWCBN advocate dont work.

right there with ya ginger

Having breastfed dd at night until quite recently,and now bottle feed,the difference is this.Unfortunately when you breastfeed at night,they do not sleep,and are in bed with you on and off all night.This is the normal breast routine,and until you stop feeding,it will be like this,it's just the way it is.There is no routine,as such,and it's all over the place as far as sleep goes.
I'm not advocating stopping breast ,but having done both,I know the difference is vast as far as them settling at night goes.If it just becomes too much ,maybe you should think about giving a bottle,I did,and our sleeps are so much better,it's unbelievable.

redbeki - yeah i figured as much. are you now giving formula or expressed breast milk? i know my friends who give formula have much better sleeping babies in general. but then i do know quite a few breast fed babies who are great sleepers as well. just not mine!

tam and ginger for your nights. the african choir sounds nice tho
tam, yey for dh coming home

our night was a night i've been after for a while, sorry girls. dd has progressed to just waking for milk! god, i hope i havent jinxed meself now [please god, no, emoticon!]
bed at 7, milk at 11 and 4am. up for day at 7.
i wish it could only be one feed a night, but i cant complain cos, i now have my evenings, something i havent had for ages. also, when she is feeding, its in a 'fill your boots' kinda way, not some namby pamby arsed comfort sucking for which she has been renowned for
my sleep quota would have gone up were it not for the fact that i was woken by dp coming home from the pub, whispering sweet nothings of 'i love you, i do. i reeeeaaaalllly love you' and 'do you want to share my chinese?' at 12.45am?.................uh, no!!!!
hope you all have good days x

hi amber and redbeki, how old is your lo? did you say you have 2 others?

Least it wasn't a kebab Tibsy which is what I've had thrust at me at midnight before. Funnily enough, I've just woken, erm no I don't fancy a bit of your kebab or you for that matter!!!!

funny tibs!

Hello all, sounds like some of you are seeing an improvement which is great ! I've only just reached the 5 mth mark and am beginning to feel that I'm not going to make it to the magic six months when I'm 'allowed' to try cc. I really don't want to do it but both dd and I are so tired. On a good night she's up every two hours and last night she seemed to feed all night. I'm feeling guilty for her too as perhaps she would be happier if she got more sleep (her daytime naps are crap too as she has to be moving in the pram and I physically can't push her around for more than 3 hours a day on so little sleep ) . What do y'all think - is it evil to try some version of cc before 6 months? Why is it suddenly okay afterward (I know ferber now says a year, but there's no way I can wait until then!) V interested to hear about gradual withdrawal and 'gentler' cc from those of you that have done it. Not sure how to deal with night wakings even if I can get her to sleep without bf to sleep at the beginning of the night. Sorry, just asking lots of questions as usual ...

gradual retreat
lilysma, i honestly cant big up this method enough. has certainly enabled dd to settle herself when she wakes at the change of each sleep cycle. i still hear her calling out every hour, but its just a quick shout and then she's settled herself.
when i put her to bed, i'm still at the stage where i'm maintaining some physical contact with her. am gradually moving down from her tho!!! she still gives a little protest before falling asleep, but i dont feel like too much of a green meanie, cos i'm there with her, iyswim?
it has also affected the length of her naps, altho i know gingers' dd has extended hers too, so that may be a developmental thing
hth

just wanted to add. think its just a matter of finding an approach that you're comfortable with and that your lo responds well to.
oh and ginger, have had the romance by kebab attack, many a night ughhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

lillsma PU/PD might work for your lo...have you tried it and it's suitable for all ages (i think?) it seems to very effective. I don't know anything about cc and age limits/reasons etc but there are plenty of people on mn who do. You could start a thread but be prepared as there are some very informative anti cc arguments out there. You need to do what feels right for you and dd. Cruise has tried a gentle version of cc and it's worked very well for her but then her ds is older. sorry you're so tired. if it makes you feel any better my ds is 15m on wed and has never slept through the night! x

sorry x posted with you there tibs. have never read gradual retreat. will have a look when ds goes down for nap x
LOL at dp and chinese

Hi everyone and lily,

Been busy over the weekend with socialising so haven't caught up.

Lily - i did a gentler version of cc at 7 mths but would have done it around 6 mths if our circumstances had been different. It's not "evil" but you have to be 100% committed.

I had to rpt it last night as ds's sleep patterns had been a bit spoilt with me picking him up recently as he had a bit of a fever and he is better now so I thought it was time to get him back to normal.

All you exclusive breastfeeders - please please don't add formula thinking it will be the magic bullet - it isn't. Ds has had formula and breast since he was 5 mths ( when I went back to work) and it made no difference at all.

Thanks everyone. Will have a proper look at gradual retreat - have been a bit confused about it because anything I do except feeding her results in crying, but perhaps it is a 'gentler' way to do the crying? Pu/pd doesn't seem to work as she never stops crying when put down and it takes ages to soothe her when i pick her up. I agree with others that it seems to confuse her. Have read most of the arguments about cc on the main board and am reluctant to expose myself to some of the attacks I have seen there! Will keep you posted!

PU/PD confused my ds too and made him cry more but i thought that was just me. To be fair though we only tried it for a few days and then gave up.
Hope you get some sleep/nap today and i know it doesn't help right now but ime it does get better as they get older. repeat the SIFTW mantra "it's only a phase". big hug x

Lilysma: hope you find a solution that suits you.

Not too bad a night here - we seem to be settling into a pattern of a few good nights, upset by teeth/growth spurt/gremlins whcih mean a couple of horrendous nights, followed byt eh standard waking every couple of hours (not too bad, to be honest) and then a gradual improvement, At least the 'good' nights are getting better if that makes sense - think we are progressing slowly but with lots of setbacks.

Anyway, got a lie in this morning and now about to soak in the bath (DH has taken DS out for a walk). Hope everyone is enjoying the sunny day and the rest of the weekend

Thanks for all the kind thoughts. Tibsy, some more questions for you, I'm afraid having looked at the link (thanks for that). This sounds quite similar to the ncss method, which i've been trying to try (!) for a while with no success really. The problem is that sometimes I can get her to sleep from awake (but sleepy) in the cot (after bf), by shhing, holding her hands, and holding her in the cot, but she still wakes 2-3 hours later and then it is harder to do this, either with or without feeding her. Sometimes she won't accept this at all and just does escalating cries. The other night I was ill and dh was in the bed with her and said she cried herself to sleep with him cuddling her/ holding her hands (he wasn't sure how long it took). Do I just accept that this method will involve crying but not leaving her to do this alone initially? Otherwise it doesn't seem that she will ever get to readieness for the next stage. Will I have to do it every 2 hours through the night? I tend to run out of energy by the third or fourth time! Also does she need to be in her own room for me to do this. I'm still sleeping in the room (and most of the time bed) with her as she is 5 months.

Can I just say something really contraversial about the sleep thing...I am not entirely sure any method works for some babies at least...

I only say that, as now LO is sleeping through, we dont need to do anything, and we did PU/PD which seemed to work brilliantly, then it 'changed' to a version of CC by her ordrs, then she just, well, did it...

Its only a theory, I am not meaning to minimise any of the things we have all done to try to et our babies to sleep, and it mayb well be I am talking complete crap. However, for thyose who are really struggling with all the techniques, there may be some comfort in the thought, that when your baby is ready, he or she will just do it? With the right structure being provided?

have to say I agree with pavlov. We have tried most things with dd2 who is 18m (didn't pursue cc very long as she cries until she vomits). Only thing that gets her back off most nights is bottle of milk - sometimes 2 . and then some nights she wakes up and just cries / needs a cuddle / has wind / whatever. We've not resigned ourselves to the fact that we don't get an unbroken night now; we choose the route of least resistance when we can (ie let her have some milk) and on the very very occasional might when she sleeps through (prob 5 times in last year) we don't get excited! Was causing more stress trying to get her to sleep through and tbh I think it's just an unrealistic expectation of parenthood that we desperately try to strive for to our detriment. If they do sleep, happy days, if they don't, find a way to live with it without your hair dropping out.

sorry - should say 'We've resigned ourselves'

Tibsy-My lo is 7 1/2 months,born 6th September.Yes ,she's my third baby.My other big babies are 6 and 9!.I didn't think I could ever go back to the baby stage,but I'm enjoying her so much.She melts my heart,she's an angel.Even the sleepless nights haven't seemed so bad this time round!Well they did a few months ago,but that's a distant blurrr now-yawn.

lilysma- i was expecting no crying myself. i've said it before and i'll say it again!! i HATE crying. i thought that her readiness to move thru the stages was when she accepted it without crying. if i waited that long, she'd be 21!! there was some crying when i moved from holding her hands to just keeping a hand on her tum, 1hr, on and off 1st night, 30ish mins the next, 15 the next and so on. she now cries for a few moments, just tired ones tho and conks out. with dd, she started sleeping longer almost immediately, but she is 8 months in 4 days. our dd also responds well to being cuddled in bed too, and when she wakes to be fed, i bring her in with us, i'm not that hardcore yet!!! she's still in the room with us. if you're happy bringing her in with you and it means you all get some sleep, i'm a HUGE advocate of that. i know it doesnt encourage them to self settle but theyre only little for such a short space of time and you've got to do what you feel comfortable with. hth i think whatever 'method' you choose, its important to adapt it and make it to suit you and your family.
our night was ok, bed at 6.30, fed at 2am then 5am, still sleeping now. she did wake for 1 hour tho at 7.30pm and was crying and pulling at her mouth and ears so i gave her some medicine. 8 months and no teeth, surely its that?

pav, just read yours after typing to lilysma, i agree with you, this could never have worked with dd a coupla months ago and whenever something happens to upset her, teeth, upset tum, whatever, it'll all go outta that window, but its working for now. just gotta go with de flow with these lo's

redbeki - she's 10 days younger than mine then. thats how i feel about dd! my other big baby is 12!!!! so yeah, its wierd going back to the babyhood thing, but i've got SOOOOOOOOO much more patience this time around. thank god for that!!!

hope all you other scrummy mummies had reasonable nights. i'm off to a first aid course provided by one of the m&t's groups today, dd going into their creche and i'm crapping myself to top it off, ds has got his year 8 exams HELP!!!!!

Crap night last night, and I shouted SHUT UP at DS Felt terrible, and obviously he just cried more. I become such a moody bitch when I'm tired.