2yr old drinking 40oz of milk and still not sleeping

[Rainbowsockstoday]

No having a go anyone because I'm well aware I have made this problem myself and don't need to feel any worse whilst sleep deprived!

My 2yo lb is a sleep thief. We might have one night in a month where he sleeps 9-4.30 if we are lucky and the rest of the time he's up for hours. We have a good solid routine that gets him down to sleep fine and works 90% of the time without a problem:

Dinner
Quiet play
Pyjamas on
Stories
Bottle
Sleep by 7.30-8

But then he wakes up at 12/1am and is up for 3 or 4 hours crying for more milk and needing everyone up to see them. He's having maybe 40oz a night milk sometimes and still screaming for more. We've tried stopping it and telling him there's none left or it's all gone (he must think I'm awful at shopping to keep running out) but he just screams more till he's sick and breathless. I guess for an easy life I've let it get this bad by giving in. I just don't know what to do to get some sleep!

DH and I both work and his job involves a lot of distance driving and safety stuff so he really needs his sleep. I'm a teacher so work much shorter hours. It's usually fine as I'm always the one he wants and will only accept me coming to him. This last couple of nights though he's wanted daddy and that's made it worse for us both because it causes tension and arguments and I fee rotten dh is getting sleepless nights too.

He still has an hour nap in the day 11-12 and my MIL suggested this morning that maybe it's a sign he doesn't need that day sleep anymore and we should cut it out or at least down. The problem is though if we don't give him that sleep he's nodding off at 3/4pm and any amount he gets then means he's not ready to go to bed at night till 11/12pm and I'm not sure that's a suitable bedtime for a toddler. I do my level best to take him out afternoons to the park, softplay, swimming, gym class, anything to tire him out in the hope that he sleeps better but it's not working.

We need a solution or some advice. We are not willing to CIO/CC because mainly I think it's cruel and heartbreaking but also my DS is 2 and so will come out of his bedroom and bring the screaming to us if we don't go to him! I'm tempted to take all the bottles away and say no milk at all!

Again though please don't make me fee any worse.

Think of it this way - he spent the whole night being reassured. He's going to be ok.

Well done.

Are your pituitary issues heritable? Can you get him checked to see if there are similar underlying medical issues that are affecting his sleep?

*Think of it this way - he spent the whole night being reassured. He's going to be ok.

Well done.*

Exactly this.

@semaphorically he was tested last year when he was only sleeping for 20mins every 4hrs day and night. There's nothing there they've said. All the found was that his metabolism is unusually high so his first sleep of the night is probably enough they think and that's why they gave us sedation for him to take him the rest of the night. I'd rather not use it though unless I have to because it makes him dizzy (he's said so)

If this helps. I remember DS age about 3 had a major attachment to me. Me and my DP were going out for the night.

DS spent the day looking me straight in the eye and saying "you go away and leave me I cry an cry a be sick you come home" and smiling. Smirking. He totally thought he had it worked out.

Apparently we were out the door 5 minutes, he cried and threw up and stood looking at my mother saying "I sick. You phone mummy mummy come home"

Bad granny put him straight.

That's in relation to the being sick - posted too soon - he's being sick because he's working himself into a funk, not because there's anything ACTUALLY wrong. He's not ill, or sick, he's working himself up to being sick.

Well done and good luck. I'd have no problem leaving a story CD on all night if it worked!

I have one great sleeper (DS), and one totally atrocious sleeper (DD), so you have my sypmathies. Onwards and upwards!

Ours was the same, he's 27 months now and mostly sleeps through. I started increasing his food intake and making it my only priority to wear him out daytime. I watered down his overnight milk drastically then breakfast as soon as he woke up cos he was hungry. No bottles during the day, solid breakfast of scrambled eggs, porridge, toast, fruit, baked beans whatever. Snack mid morning, lunch would be a bit later about 130. Solid dinner. Lots of exercise, swimming, outside puddle jumping or park playing or at home in the garden. I don't let him sleep past 4. His dinner at 5 sometimes he picks at mine after that, banana before bedtime routine at 7 with a bottle of cows milk. Anytime he wakes after he gets water nothing else.

Leave your boy wet if he deliberately makes himself wet. He can live with that consequence. You'll break this bad habit soon. It won't take long.

You completely have my sympathies, I've found it's really bloody hard to make any changes that make it worse when you are so sleep deprived.

My DD is 2 and 4 months and things are only just starting to get better. We have often been up for 2-4 hours at night because she just doesn't seem tired. If she sleeps well and wakes up at 3/4am that can be it and we're up for the day (but she will usually nap during the day). If she sleeps till 6am she won't nap during the day. If she naps during the day she won't go to sleep till about 8.30/9, if she doesn't nap she is tired and will go to sleep by 7.30/8. I just try to roll with it to be honest, but I am strict with no leaving the bedroom and keeping things dark until she goes to sleep. I mostly wait with her till she falls asleep but if she's mucking about I leave the room, it does help that she's still in a cot and can't get out. I don't leave her to cry though, just can't deal with that, so I suppose sometimes I do give in and feed her or let her sleep in my bed. I do still bf her at night sometimes but it's definitely been getting less in the last few weeks, and I take her off and tell her to go to sleep if it goes on for too long. She's also a picky eater, some days she eats a lot and some days not much. She has a cold and cough at the moment (and her back molars coming in I suspect but she won't let me look) which isn't helping, but she has done a few nights sleeping 9-6 so I'm hopeful things are improving. A couple of hours outside in the afternoon seems to help too (thought 6 hours running around at a farm park is the best way to get her to sleep but I can't afford to do that everyday!).

You're doing great. It's always hard to make changes. I still remember night weaning DD and I thought it was going to be hell but it only took a few nights and was so much easier than expected.

One thing I find helpful is to channel Super Nanny. I mean the way she speaks without emotion, if that makes sense. Don't apologise and cry, keep positive, keep praising him. Try to act happy and breezy like it isn't all fazing you. 2 pints of milk a night was crazy, he'll feel so much better for this.

@nightwanderer I use my teacher voice and pretend I'm dealing with an angry teenager temporarily. He's not eating today so I'm just happily making his meals and sitting him at the table. He can work the "click click" on his highchair (the straps and clip) and climb out so he gets out a lot and it doesn't last. I'm leaving it around though and carrying on as normal.

On schedule he's taken himself over to the sofa and fallen asleep so I'm going to wake him up in about 15/20 mins when I've tidied up.

Well done on getting him to stay in his room - that's brilliant. It will take time, but persevere so that it doesn't go back to square one and you have to start all over again.
My Ds was a really bad sleeper. He refused all day time naps at 18 months, and that did help a bit.
I use my teacher voice and pretend I'm dealing with an angry teenager temporarily This made me laugh - my Ds is now 15 and I often find myself talking to him as I would a stroppy toddler

I have just registered on mumsnet to post on this as there seems to be so much judging going on. I think the fact you are looking for advice shows you don't think the situation is perfect so being told that it is crazy, mad, bad or that your 2 year old is manipulative is probably no help! So just wanted to reassure you that it sounds like you have a wonderful, smart little child and like everyone in life, he is just doing what he thinks he has to to get what he wants. Doesn't make him naughty or manipulative or a bad child, it is totally natural.

I think doing what works for you is also really important so no cio or cc is fine. It works for some people but if your heart's not in it then you're bound to fold sooner or later. It sounds like you did really well last night.

My son is not as old as yours but I am a single mum and he was waking for longer and longer in the night wanting to just be on the boob all the time (I don't give him cow's milk or formula) and we were both obviously tired in the day. Last week I took another mums advice and did a similar thing. Basically went cold turkey on night feeding but I would hold and rock him as much as he wanted, even though he was crying and trying to get at the boob. I did leave him to cry for 5 or ten minutes a few times because I needed a break from the situation, but we share a room so I was still there. In the end it only took 2 nights and on the third night he slept through. He had never slept through the night before and now he has done every night for the past week. He is younger (13 months) so it might take a bit longer for your child. But if you can, maybe play tag team with your partner so you both get a bit of respite (if not actually sleep). As long as one of you are there with him as you were last night, you know he is not feeling abandoned. And I think that if you stick with it then hopefully within a few days he will realise that he can't get milk at night anymore so will sleep instead. It is possible! But most importantly do what works for you. The most important thing is your sanity. Everything else will fall into place eventually. And maybe arrange a bit of alone time with your partner so that you don't kill each other in the process!

Good luck and well done x

I would give him porridge before bed as it's a big gap between dinner and breakfast for their little tummies. It always helped mine sleep through

Hi Op. Just wanted to. It's really hard going making those big changes esp when you've had so little sleep. Just dig in. You love him and it's going to be fine.

Sounds like you're doing fantastically, keep at it!

Oh OP, you poor thing. I'll confess I was a bit at the 40oz, but having RTFT I can see how you got here. It's so easy to slip in to bad habits which seem like the right thing when you start. And having a tricky childhood yourself is going to complicate stuff for you. for you. You're neither a shitty not cruel parent; if you were you wouldn't care about any of this.

Honestly though - and I mean this kindly - it's not normal. In your shoes I'd be pushing the GP for another referral and more/repeat tests. Particularly given your own medical history. And there must be alternative medications that might help him? Also, most NHS trusts have proper, qualified sleep consultants who can help. You shouldn't have to pay for it. I'm really but sure lots of well meaning or judgemental people on the Internet can help with such ingrained issues.

Very best of luck to you.

Well done; that sounds like a hard but very very good beginning. Keep strong, you can do this.

Tonight was slightly worse as I think he knew what was coming. He was rattling the gate bars like a prison inmate and asking "what did my do wrong mummy I'm trapped" which I simply said he'd done nothing and it was bedtime. Maybe about 25-30 times I had to put him in bed because he wanted to be downstairs.

It's not the milk he wants I've discovered. It's simply that he doesn't want to go to sleep and isn't tired. He calmed down now and I've left him because even in the pitch dark he's talking to himself and telling stories. We spent three hours at the park this afternoon and he walked the two miles there and back even though I was willing to carry him. He should be knackered but he's not interested!

"what did my do wrong mummy"
Youve mentioned him saying this a few times now, this definitely sounds to me like hes discovered this is a phrase that normally gets you to give in, which makes sense when youve said "Growing up my parents used to do this thing where every so often they'd keep me up late and make me cry telling me all the things they didn't like about me and all the things I'd done wrong"

Youre doing so so well to keep to it!

Keep at it -I sounds as though you've broken the milk cycle already. Well done

@stormtreader when he HAS done something wrong like the day he decided toy cars were a makeshift hammer to "fix" the TV I told him it wasn't what cars were for and if he did it again he wouldn't be allowed his cars for the rest of the day. So he did it again and I put the cars away. That's when he learns he did something wrong. But it works first time and he hasn't done it since. He's usually an absolute dream in the day and plays by himself for sometimes 20mins at a time (if I'm doing something like hanging the laundry out) without needing watching. At night though he's the opposite. I'm constantly telling him he's done nothing wrong it's just bedtime.

Ladies we are now milk free at night but it has caused a whole host of other problems such as - he no longer eats in the day and instead just drinks water and refuses food (or eats one mouthful and spits it out) this means he's awake for hours and hours because he must be too hungry to sleep.

He's also behaving very badly now and it's causing arguments because all his dad does is shout at him and me.

How do I get him to eat?

A 2 year old refusing to eat needs to see a doctor.

Was his diet varied and healthy previously?

What have you tried to get him to eat? What I would try with DD:: food in fun shapes/faces, food in fun places e.g. picnic, food out somewhere, make-it-then-eat-it (DD likes to stir the scrambled egg for example).