2yr old drinking 40oz of milk and still not sleeping

[Rainbowsockstoday]

No having a go anyone because I'm well aware I have made this problem myself and don't need to feel any worse whilst sleep deprived!

My 2yo lb is a sleep thief. We might have one night in a month where he sleeps 9-4.30 if we are lucky and the rest of the time he's up for hours. We have a good solid routine that gets him down to sleep fine and works 90% of the time without a problem:

Dinner
Quiet play
Pyjamas on
Stories
Bottle
Sleep by 7.30-8

But then he wakes up at 12/1am and is up for 3 or 4 hours crying for more milk and needing everyone up to see them. He's having maybe 40oz a night milk sometimes and still screaming for more. We've tried stopping it and telling him there's none left or it's all gone (he must think I'm awful at shopping to keep running out) but he just screams more till he's sick and breathless. I guess for an easy life I've let it get this bad by giving in. I just don't know what to do to get some sleep!

DH and I both work and his job involves a lot of distance driving and safety stuff so he really needs his sleep. I'm a teacher so work much shorter hours. It's usually fine as I'm always the one he wants and will only accept me coming to him. This last couple of nights though he's wanted daddy and that's made it worse for us both because it causes tension and arguments and I fee rotten dh is getting sleepless nights too.

He still has an hour nap in the day 11-12 and my MIL suggested this morning that maybe it's a sign he doesn't need that day sleep anymore and we should cut it out or at least down. The problem is though if we don't give him that sleep he's nodding off at 3/4pm and any amount he gets then means he's not ready to go to bed at night till 11/12pm and I'm not sure that's a suitable bedtime for a toddler. I do my level best to take him out afternoons to the park, softplay, swimming, gym class, anything to tire him out in the hope that he sleeps better but it's not working.

We need a solution or some advice. We are not willing to CIO/CC because mainly I think it's cruel and heartbreaking but also my DS is 2 and so will come out of his bedroom and bring the screaming to us if we don't go to him! I'm tempted to take all the bottles away and say no milk at all!

Again though please don't make me fee any worse.

I could have typed your first post! Mine is now 2.5 and at 2 he was the same with his milk. In the day he ate like a horse but bedtime nothing but milk (2 massive cups) would do and he would not go to sleep without it. He'd then wake overnight for more milk. I'm aware he was drinking too much but he ate very healthily and wasn't overweight at all. I ended up putting a sippy cup of milk in a lunchbox with an ice pack in it next to his bed when I went up to bed after he'd gone to sleep and when he woke up in the night it took a couple of nights for me to show him where it was, and tell him that if he woke up and wanted it he could get it himself without waking anyone else (making a big deal of being a big boy). Most nights he would wake and drink it and go back to sleep himself. Some times he didn't touch it. Then, recently he had a sickness bug where Milk made him very sick. So I used that time to say 'right we can't have milk at bedtime anymore' and we swapped to water cold turkey. He was totally fine with this as it had been hurting his tummy. He now has a small cup of milk during quiet time after dinner and if he asks for it in the day in place of water. He's also started drinking a lot lot more water in the day as he's not drinking so much milk at bedtime. Just wanted to post this to reassure you that you're not alone. Yes it took him longer than some of his friends to stop bedtime milk, and waking for more, but he's now completely happy with no milk at bedtime, only water (I still leave a non spill sippy cup of water next to his bed which he often wakes but no longer touches more than a sip). Hope you find a way that works for you

Oh and regarding him puking - put a long sleeved vest on underneath his pyjamas and just take off his top if it's really disgusting. He will be warm enough in the top.

But I wouldn't take his pyjamas off if he was just spitting up on himself out of temper, hell no.

Rainbow don't feel bad, sleep problems are awful and the sleep deprivation as a parent can make you feel like you're going mad

I suggest a diary. Try each new sleep strategy for at least two weeks consistently, to give you time to see if it helps. Write a plan before you start of what you will and won't do for that period. Write down how he reacts when you're trying each new approach. It helps keep it all clear when you're exhausted.

And be kind to yourself. This phase will pass - you can get through this.

What time is his dinner time? Make it earlier if possible. A lot of two year olds eat at 4.30/5 in order to go to bed at 7.

Oh rainbow you poor thing. I have been through similar with my DD and it nearly broke me and my DH.

I have just commented on another thread to say that the method of soothing in her cot has made an enormous difference to us. Also, can you afford a sleep consultant? They can help with stuff like nutrition and gentle sleep support IMO.

Will post link to a thread about cot settling we found helpful. This would also work in a bed i think.

This is the other thread, which contains a link to the cot/ bed soothing thread I just mentioned.

To sleep train?
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/287TT-To-sleep-train

I think you need to swap round his meals.

Breakfast on waking and then maybe some fruit mid morning. Lunch at 11.30/12 ish then nap after. Outside for fresh air afternoon and feed him a tea/meal at about 4.30 ish having had no afternoon snack.

Pre bath, a bowl of porridge or weetabix so you know he isnt hungry through the night. This will mean you can refuse him milk guilt free because he isnt hungry.

You need to get some control here.

Looking at your what he eats thing I honestly don't think he's eating enough during the day. I would be bunging something more substantial into him at lunchtime.

Personal experience here - start bedtime at 6.15-6.30. Wash hands & face, warm milk in bed with story. Leave the room by 6.45 ish.

Leaving bedtime until later missed the window of opportunity and they go past tiredness.

DD would be running about until 9pm otherwise.

I said to DD, Dr Ranj said no more drinks in the night.

DD would sometimes have dinner at 4.30pm & maybe have a banana/porridge/weetabix before bed.

I have a 2.5 year old and we were trapped in a vicious cycle of excessive milk until last week.
Then she got a gastro bug at nursery so I took it as an opportunity to change her diet. Threw the bottles in the bin.
Now she has
Sippy cup milk and toast & banana for breakfast
Fruit for snack
Proper lunch like spag Bol or mild chicken curry and rice
Short nap
Rice cakes and raisins
Lighter dinner such as omelette with ham and cheese then a yoghurt
Sippy cup milk
Brush teeth
Bed
Her food intake has doubled and she is sleeping better at night.

It's not about you being a shitty parent.

You've tried to do everything you know, in order to keep him happy and content, on the theory that a calm and happy baby will sleep well.

That's not a bad thing

But - what works for a small baby isn't what works for a toddler, and I think maybe you're stuck at an earlier stage of parenting.

Of course a small baby wakes and needs milk and cuddles and comfort. Of course a small baby who has been sick needs changing.

But he's not a baby now.

Some children naturally learn to wean themselves from night feeds. Many of them need help - and it sounds as though your son is one of the ones who needs a bit of extra help to do that.

If he doesn't want to drink the water, he isn't thirsty. The milk is a comfort thing more than anything else. So it's about teaching him to find a different way of soothing himself.

Some people find that CI sleeping gives everyone a better night's sleep; that the child replaces the need for milk with the need for closeness.

Some people prefer to sleep train the child to stay in their own bed.

At the moment, he's in charge here, and whilst his needs had to be paramount when we was a baby, it's important now that he learns he isn't the ruler.

I don't mean anything draconian by that; he just needs to accept that your word goes.

As per earlier posters, I'd offer Readybrek or Weetabix or porridge or something as part of the bedtime routine; you'll know then he absolutely isn't hungry, which should help you as well as him.

I would swap his drink in the morning so he's getting milk then; give him the volume of milk he should be getting during the day, and in his evening bottle. I can't remember exactly but I think at 2, that's 10-20oz over the day. Definitely not 40!

And for me, I really would go cold turkey on the milk overnight. I'd make it very clear there wasn't going to be anything other than sleep available at night. I'd be present, but very boring.

So if he came to find me, I would immediately steer him back to bed, tuck him in firmly, and then sit by his bed rubbing his back or holding his hand, but not rocking him, not singing, not getting cross (easier said than done!), just being a reassuring presence.

He will scream. This is new, it's different, and it isn't what he thinks he wants. But just bear in mind that what he's currently getting isn't really what he needs, even if he doesn't understand that.

If he makes himself sick, no comments, strip his top off and pop him back in bed again - if he usually coats his sheets too, you might want to prepare for this by layering 2 sheets with a towel between them, then all you do is strip the top sheet and towel rather than having to completely remake the bed.

Nightlight, but no main lights on. If he used to have a mobile then consider getting it out again. Or something which gives a gentle night show.

You aren't trying to force him to sleep at this point, you're teaching him that nighttime is for beds.

I might be inclined to give the medicine you've got for him - out of interest, how do you know it was making him feel dizzy? It may be that it was making him extra sleepy and disorientated, so he couldn't run around with quite the same coordination - well, that's sort of what you want it to do! To encourage him to lie down instead and close his eyes.

But you could also see if there's a different medication available. Slow release melatonin is something people are prescribed for a lot of children with diagnosed sleep issues.

If your husband won't be safe after listening to him all night long, then I'd consider trying this on a Friday night first; that gives you Friday and Saturday nights to do it together, and then possibly of it's still awful and you're worried about safety, your husband could crash with a friend on Sunday night, she he's had at least one decent night's sleep? You could do the same a different night if it's getting massively too much - or try it over the Easter Hols where a bit of extra exhaustion won't impact your work.

I hope it goes well. You can't change how things went in the past, but you can hopefully make things a lot better for the future. It will be worse in the short term. But it should only be a very very short term. And think of the gains when you've done it.

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You're not a shitty parent, you just need some guidance on what to do for the good of everyone. You are his parent and you are higher than him in the family hierarchy. It's your job to teach him to go to sleep by himself. There will be crying involved, and there might be vomiting involved, but that's because he doesn't know how else to behave when he doesn't get his own way. There are gentler and more extreme methods of sleep training, but consistency is key, whatever you choose to do. Sit by his bed holding his hand if you must, but don't engage with him. Bedtime is boring, but necessary, just like brushing your teeth. Non-negotiable.
Have a cup of tea and a biscuit and formulate a plan.

Take back control.

I wouldn't worry about anyone's judgemental thoughts on what techniques work for you. I would try and test various things and see what happens.

One of my brothers let all 5 of his children fall to sleep in front of a film in their rooms. All have left school with excellent GCSEs and well behaved. Many would claim this sort of thing causes lack of attention span, tiredness in the day etc. It doesn't in every case. People just like to judge.

I have been in a similar situation to you but not with bottled milk. Mine Literally woke every 45 minutes wanting to bf. Sleep thief is a great term for it.

We co slept to get a good nights sleep but then we had enough of that by 2. So my dh took a week off work and did all wake ups and this completely cut back on the demand for bf at night. Could your dh do something similar?

I personally agree with the person who suggested a cd player in the room telling long stories. I would put it up high somewhere so he couldn't reach it to play with and I would have the volume on so low that he has to really concentrate to hear it. I would expect this should calm and relax him enough to drift off calmly back.

Ireally feel for you. I reckon The milk at night is not a need its a comfort habit. Feeding him more in the day is not going to stop the demand for milk. He is getting to an age where you can negotiate though. So you could say "milk or a story on your cd player?" Guarantee he will go cd player every time.

@nsea my lb is bf too but we've recently stopped as he was just messing on and being silly so we moved away from it to do nightweaning and my oh took Johnny waking over with the instruction of telling him he needed to sleep and that mummy can't make milk in the nighttime anymore. Because he screamed so much my oh game him a bottle and that's how it started. It's only been a bottle habit for about three weeks when we started night weaning.

I'm going to follow people's suggestions of cutting him off. I might explain to him after school tonight that the bottle have to go away for new babies (he loves helping others) and that he's a big boy now so doesn't need them. I'll promise him in the daytime if he wants a drink of milk he can have one but nights are just water if he's thirsty and sleeping. I think the idea of a reward everymorning for a good night is a good idea and that if I ask him to tell me why he gets a present then at least I know if he understands. He wants an elefun game (you know the one where you catch the butterflies) and so I'm willing to say if he can collect 10 good boy stars for sleeping he can have one. If it works the game will tire him out.

I also think we might cut his nap and if he's looking sleepy let him get an early night. As for eating he eats more than I do on a good day so saying I need to feed him more is a bit odd because I've been criticised before about giving him too much to eat. I have a sandwich for lunch whereas he has the same along with fruits, crisps, crackers, cheese. Sometimes a whole bowl of soup and a sandwich! The day I wrote isn't a hard and fast every day situation the same daily. He has different foods and I think three job meals and three snacks is more than enough. He gets to dinner and isn't always interested sonim thinking of cutting down his snacks to make him eat more dinner.

Sorry I don't have much advice but wanted to say you're not a bad parent. You've been giving your DS what you think he needs. Now time to stop but it'll be so hard.

You have my sympathies as my DS1 (now 2.5) was born awake and stayed awake! Naps were for the weak, so he thought. Perhaps completely drop the nap midday and give him some quiet time, reading, tv etc instead? I know that doesn't help with the overnight milk but will perhaps give you a few hours in three evening to recharge and get a few hours sleep while you're dealing with the milk situation.

Good luck!

It's a good idea to make sure he eats a decent sized dinner. If we let DD snack late she doesn't eat a lot of dinner and she always has a rubbish night then is up by about 5am.

It's also a good idea to start teaching him what thirsty feels like (vs hungry) since they can feel similar. It may help at night if he is actually thirsty not hungry, e.g. if he has a saltier than normal dinner or it's hot in his room.

I think his eating is a tricky subject. If he eats loads during the day he doesn't want dinner so has a bad night and gets more milk (from me in the end sometimes because he'll eventually crawl into bed and help himself) then not eat much and round we go. It sounds cruel but do you think stopping his snacks except after things like football and swimming might be a good option for a couple of days so he eats a big big dinner. That's also an issue. He'll eat loads of something one day and tells me he loves it and the next time he hates it! I'm not willing to get into the habit of cooking three different meals sometimes (I'm vegan so mine is different sometimes and he has two options to eat). I'm not saying I'll starve him so he eats but maybe give him more substantial fruit with lunch like a banana and then nothing till 4.30 when he has his dinner and that way have supper at 6.30 whilst reading g stories so he's full in bed and no milk.

I just echo everyone else. The milk has to go. Asap.

No snacks is fine OP, I've never really understood routine snacks. Mine get them if we have been swimming and it's a while til dinner or something, but otherwise it's three proper meals and a small supper before bed. Hasn't done mine and harm!
Give it a go and see if it helps.

DD2 20 months today had porridge, blueberries and milk at 6.30, lunch of scrambled eggs on toast, a banana and a yoghurt for lunch at 11.30 Dinner is at 4.30, she's having chilli and a jacket potato then some fruit and yogurt. at 6.30 she has a cup of milk and bed at 7.

Please don't feel like a bad parent It's so easy to get stuck in a rut, especially when you are exhausted.
I agree with everything SilenceOfThePrams said. Your DS is two years old, but it does sound like you're still in baby parenting mode. Definitely get rid of the milk at bedtime and try something like porridge or a banana. (bananas have something in them which promotes sleep!).

I'm going to suggest NOT getting rid of the nap. If he falls asleep at 8ish, but then is up for 3-4 hours in the night, he can't be getting enough sleep. What time does he get up in the morning? Even with an hours nap during the day, it sounds like he is only getting 9-10 hours of sleep per day. This should be more like 11-12 at his age. I would honestly keep the afternoon nap for as long as he seems to need it. Try starting the bed time routine earlier, spend maximum 15 minutes reading stories and have lights out by 7. Sit outside the door and keep taking him back in to the room if he comes out. Don't say anything, just calmly out him back into bed. He'll resist/scream/make you feel like an awful mum to begin with, but it should get better quickly once he realises you mean business. I think if you can crack the sleeping, everything else may fall into place.

Good luck! We had similar issues with our first DD - it will get better!