No Cry Sleep Solution - slowly but surely....

[chIRIStmasfairybigpants]

Shiny new thread (saw your post Bikebug

Not been on for a while as we've been a house full of colds and having new heating installed (the warmth is bliss) so DS has been sleeping in with me again as he couldn't breathe
Progress has still been made though as I've only been bringing him in from about 11ish(because I'm lazy)and he's been waking coughing during the evening but managing to resettle himself quite a lot.

I really think we're getting there (though it maybe his age too )

How's everyone else doing?

she used to have two naps, about an hour to 2 hours depnding on whether she is with me or the childminder (she sleeps longer with the childminder, typical!) but now the afternoon nap doesnt always happen. yesterday she didn't have her afternoon nap and i thought she would sleep well at night but noooooooooo....

she fell asleep bang on 8pm as she usually does and woke up 130, and was horrible last night. after about two hours i said to my husband he better take over before i throw myself off the balcony, and he was with her for another two hours... finally slept at 4 something and for the first time, woke up at 7 something!! she usually wakes up at 6 sharp... hoping for a bettr night tonight!

That sounds like an awful night, poor you What was she like for the four hours (four hours??!)after she woke at 1.30? In what way horrible?

We had a bad night in that dd woke a lot (I'm certain it's teeth again), but at least I'm able to comfort her to sleep fairly quickly. Even the worst nights when I bring her downstairs again, it's rarely more than 45 mins before she's asleep again. I wonder what's bothering your lo? You said she used to sleep quite well?

you know i would like to blame it on the perennial favourite scapegoat, the teeth.. she tried to sleep, but was agitated, then would fall asleep for a few minutes and then get up again crying... just kept on repeating this... i must admit she is pretty sensitive and probably also sensed how pissed off i was at her... yesterday was better, i didn't lose my cool...

wonder where everyone else is.... hello, anybody else out there....?

Hi ya,

I've been kayaking and too tired to chat...7 miles of whitewater on 2 hours sleep. It took 4 snickers bars to get the energy up. I'm 33 in April so it is old adult acne. Acne, wrinkles and eye bags. I'm so attractive at the minute. Last night Babe slept better and in his cot from 7 til 3.10am, that is really good for him. He's stared walking and I think he was too tired to get up. I wonder what tonight will bring.

Hi everyone, I am new to this board but am going to give the NCSS a try as I am reaching the end of my tether! My dd is nearly 12 months (on Friday!) and has never been a good sleeper. She has slept through a couple of times, for no apparent reason, and we had a nice few months where she only woke once or twice. We usually cosleep although she generally starts off in the cot (falls asleep in my arms feeding though) and I bring her in the bed if she starts waking alot. But even being in the bed which used to work doesn't always now. I don't mind the actual waking, it's just that sometimes it can take her 1-1.5 hours to get back to sleep, even if I breastfeed her. She just seems wide awake! It is so frustrating. It is comforting to hear other parents going through the same thing, as I don't know anyone who has as much trouble - they all seem to sleep through!

welcome sophbod! your LO seems to be doing almost exactly the same things as mine, who has just turned one... and yes, all my friends seem to have really sleepy babies too! mine has never slept thru but only once slept until 5am, and as u said, for no apparent reason.

i don't really do ncss anymore in that she came to a natural point where she did not want to be fed or rocked anymore... but i do give her sips of water, then she turns over and i rub her back until she falls asleep. recently though, she would get up in a complete rage and no amount of comforting would help for about half an hour... i guess it's a combination of teething and discovering tantrums...?...

she has come a long way from the bad old days when i had to pace up and down rocking her for hours, but her progress has come to a stagnation point for so long now i wonder if she will ever sleep thru... it's a case of so near yet impossibly far: she knows how to go back to sleep now if she wants to, she understands that nighttime is sleep time, and she doesn't want to be fed milk anymore, so in that sense the ncss was a success... BUT she still gets up, and there is really no solution to that...

Please tell me someone else is awake at this time?!! And is mad enough to be on here?!
Am trying the CC for the 2nd nite and am again up for more than an hour!!!
Please offer me some support on this, tell me taht it works and it's not in vain? Feel so evil hearing ds crying but am just wanting a peaceful nites sleep just like everyone else!
Please help!

Hi there Sopbod, welcome to NCSS (although I don't think many of us are actually following the book much anymore, just doing our own version).

My dd (now 13 months) has never slept through either. She's always been really good at wanting to go to sleep and dropping off, but can't seem to stay asleep for more than 2 hours at a time, until recently. She was so tired last night, I mimed 'sleep' to her at 7pm and she got up and toddled to the door, up the stairs and picked up her toothbrush! She was asleep by 8pm and I didn't go up to her until after 11pm. So things are improving (woke about 6 times in the night though, bloody teeth). She used to always wake half hour into a sleep and NCSS did cure that, took a while though.

Poor you yummymummylu. I think you are on the wrong thread for support with cc though. Generally we are trying to find a 'no cry' sleep solution here.

Oh and I think that all those people with babies that sleep all night are either deaf or lying

dwb, that sounds too cute!! awwwww, i can't wait for my little one to walk... she is crawling so damned well she really can't be bothered to walk right now...

the brushing teeth is another problem! she won't let me brush her teeth because she will grab the brush to play with it, poking it around her mouth and threatening to push it down her throat, and if i try to take it there's always a major drama... instead i try to use a towel as best i can but she bites down really hard so i have to be very quick! such a tyke! any tps for that?

yummymummylu, cc can work with some babies, but some will put up a very long fight, and in the end it's a battle of wills... it certainly didn't work for me. ncss is slightly better in that my neighbours will not be hating me for it, but here i am 12 months on....

Ah yes, the toothbrush. My dd is a nightmare too, when it comes to teeth cleaning. I have about four different styles of toothbrush, a battery, vibrating one for babies, a normal baby one, a plastic one that fits over my finger and a soft plastic one that she can chew on (apparently it cleans the teeth as she chews). I flip from one to the other so damned fast she hardly notices I'm cleaning. And she's always got one to clutch in her little mitt, to keep her happy.

Tonight, she took the lead in bed-time again! The last part of our bedtime routine involves watching a "Titch" dvd whilst having a b/f. About 6.30pm she took the dvd out of the box, opened the dvd drive, put the dvd in, shut it, then pointed at my boobs whilst rubbing her eyes. Can't get clearer than that!

Let's hope it bodes well for a good night. Sleepy vibes to everyone. Nighty night.

Ahaha! thanks for the tip! i shall rush out and buy more toothbrushes today! you LO is just too cute. mine can't walk yet but has discovered the Point, and the power it yields. problem is she points at every bloody thing now and expects me to fetch, from her toys to food to the neighbour's van...

i must admit our bedtime routine has gone haywire again and i really should try and establish something. problem is daddy comes home just as she is getting ready for bed and wants to be with her for a while. and daddy doesn't understand how to play calmly. he thinks bouncing her around whiilst making orangutan sounds is calming.

oh and i just want to say to all you mummies who have one year olds and are still brestfeeding... i absolutely salute you... well done!

Whoo-hoo, found you all! Been trying the Pantley Way since just before Christmas when DD hit six months, started to crawl, got her first cold and cut her first two teeth all at the same time. But needing a bit of support.

I've been pretty lax in trying to make major changes, still co-sleeping and BF (DD is 9 and a bit months) which is kind of fine, but I preferred it when she used to start the night in her crib (now outgrown of course) and only came into bed with us at 3 or 4am. Gave M&D a bit of cuddle time!

Was idly wondering what the record for the number of Pantley Pull-Offs in one session was. I lost count a week or so ago, as I passed the 34 marker... Only did one last night, then back to double figures tonight.

Hi there - hoping you can all provide me with some ammunition to use, had DS's 7-9 month check last week (only he is 12 months, ho hum, they were running late) and health visitor said we must do controlled crying as DS is 'obviously just trying it on'. Really unhappy with the idea but DH says we shoudl do it.

DS slept through from 10 weeks but as soon as I went back to work at 7 months (also coincided with getting teeth and finally stopping bf) he started waking up at about 4am briefly. Steadily got worse and now it's up to 4-5 times per night. He will fall asleep in the cot if I stand with my hand on him. In the night if he wakes if you go in quickly and lie him down again and put your hand on him often he will just go back off. However if you leave him he just stands up and cries and cries and then to calm him down I have to cuddle him for half an hour. Plus get up for work at 6am!

The health visitor says we have spoiled him and he doesn't know how to get to sleep on his own - DH says we should let him cry until he figures out he may as well lie down again. But I don't want to

Got NCSS book but DH won't even read it as he says HV must know more than a book

Poor Piffy! It's horrible to have pressure from a HV (and I'm sure there are many thousands of excellent HVs, but unfortunately I've only had direct experience of 3, all of whom were apparently bonkers) and no support from DH.

My feeling, as with anything regarding parenting, is that if it doesn't feel right, it isn't right for you. I'm not sure that 12 month olds can 'try it on' as such. NCSS was written by a mum of 4 (who all slept differently, incidentally, which if nothing else proves that kids react differently to the same environment/practices) who did loads of research and I would think would be difficult to just dismiss as 'a book'.

My friends who have done cc, do all admit that they've had to do it several times (after teething, holidays etc), and so therefore isn't the 'miracle solution' that perhaps your DH thinks it will be..?

Is there a middle way, perhaps? Baby Whisper controlled withdrawal might be gentler on you and your babe but active enough for DH?

I guess it depends how desperate for sleep you are. Are you posting on the CC threads too? NCSS is definitely a longer term project! I introduced NCSS to my partner with a line that went something like 'I think it will help DD to learn to sleep rather than force her to by having a fight with her for several nights'. He bought it.

Piffy, just a quickie as I'm in a hurry. If you've got time, read Dr Sears on CC. Hopefully it will 'put it to bed' for you and give you some ammo for HV (who all seem to be one-trick-pony's and cc is their answer to anything). Contrary to what they say, you baby is NOT out to get you!

Dear Piffy,

I don't think Controlled crying is an effective way to help babies to sleep, safely and securely at all. My hubby isnt helpful either, he tries but isn't. Your baby is unique, maybe one suggestion in Pantleys book may help, maybe not tonight but maybe next week or month. DS is 14 months and has only just grasped the concept of a lovey. He gets up cries and I say "Mr Mouse is tired, can you help him to sleep, pop him down and cuddle him to sleep" AND HE DOES IT - AMAZINGLY! Give her ideas a try. Ask your hubby if he was crying would he want to be left - if he gives you a cheeky answer MAKE HIM CRY and then leave him

Piffy

found this just now - thought it might help! It's at findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0838/is_2003_Jan-Feb/ai_100807025, and taken from a letter by Dr. Kathleen Dyer Ramos who has studied cosleeping. She was responding to another correspondent. That page also points out that waking in the night is actually normal/healthy behaviour for children under 12 months. Although that doesn't help you when you're knackered!

''Would it help to just let him cry himself to sleep when he wakes up at night? A recent study examined 6- to 12-month-old infants whose mothers reported sleep problems. (2) Half of the mothers were instructed in a controlled crying sleep-training program, and half were not. Two months later, sleep problems were resolved in 79 percent of the children whose mothers let them cry it out, but only 39 percent of the control group. However, four months after training, no difference remained, with sleep problems resolved in about half of the children in both groups. It seems the effects of sleep training are short-lived. Most pediatric sleep problems resolve on their own over time. The real tasks are for you to get enough sleep and for you to maintain a good relationship with your son in the meantime.'

hi there piffy
mine behaves almost exactly the same as yours (well, most nights) and i did try to let her cry it out and in the end the whole family is upset and it didn't get anywhere. the next day she became pathetically clingy in the daytime. obviously she had become insecure, as i have never abandoned her before, and must have been terrified that i'll leave her again. i don't think it is worth it. especially because cc mums tell me that everytime there is a disruption, ie teeth or travelling or illness, you have to start again...

also if you read down this post somewhere, DWB talked about how she damaged her vocal chords from screaming too much, and didn't speak until she was five.

my view is that CC can very well work on some children, but on some, like mine it would never work without causing her a lot of trauma, because she is just extremely stubborn. if you are willing to, give it a go for a few nights to satisfy your dh. it's good that he takes an active role in parenting decisions and it wont be good to hurt his feelings, because his intentions must be well placed... then if it doesn't work you can give up, and both of you will be satisfied that at least you've tried... and who knows, your baby might be like my friend's, who slept thru after two nights of cc... but i would say that is the exception rather than the norm... good luck and let us know how you get on!

oh yes, and about this 'learning to fall asleep by temselves thing' that everyone talks about, i really don't think it is as straightforward as people think. I don't believe she is waking up because she still has not learnt to go to sleep by herself, becasue from 8pm to about 3am, she can, and i have also seen her wake up and go back to sleep again without any help from me.

i really think it is impossible for anyone, baby or adult, to willfully wake themselves up from sleep just to try it on... it doesn't make sense does it? maybe it is habit and body clock, but that certainly won't make it the poor wee fella's fault...

Hi everyone

lindygirl - fab article, just goes to show that if you wait long enough everything passes..you don't get many teenagers needing putting back to bed!!!

Difers - LOL at making him cry and leaving him!

Have just skimmed through the book again, and found that it says two weeks approx is a good guideline of how long it takes to see an improvement. We are on hols next week (first time since he was born ) so I have persuaded DH to try it for two weeks and then review, and if there is no improvement at all we can consider CC.

Actually I have just found out I am expecting no. 2 and have a terrible cold but can't even have lemsip. So last night DH did the night shift. I knew it would be a problem night as DS has the same cold so wakes up coughing. And what do you know, by 3am he was in bed with us having a lovely snuggle with daddy , nice to know I'm not the only 'softie' around this house!

Thanks for all your good advice, CC just feels wrong, don't know why but it does. You're all right, I should trust my instincts!

Sorry forgot must tell you - my sister has 10 week old baby and her HV told her on Friday she must start getting her to fall asleep by herself as she is 'making a rod for her back' by cuddling her... honestly some HV's are such miserable cows

Luckily sis is on her third baby and the other two sleep like tops (13 hours at 6 and 2.5 years?!) so told her to stuff off, quite rightly!

congratulations piffy! after all this discussion i decided to look at some attachment parenting websites yesterday, and they must be the extreme opposite to CC, and although i don't follow everything they say, ie i don't co-sleep, but their throries just make so much sense, peaceful parenting for peaceful children and all that. there really isn't any benefit to anyone to let the baby feel that she is being abandoned at night... and ten weeks! that's really a bit much!

Good news Piffy. Lol at your sister telling the HV to stuff off

I don't know what it is about this society, trying to make us detatch from our babies at birth. I know I take attachment parenting to the nth degree, but all this 'put your baby down and ignore her/him' can't be natural surely?

Do all these HV's know do you think, that they are advocating cc based on the theory of some bloke (Dr Richard bloody Ferber, without a maternal instinct in his body), who is now apparently backtracking and admitting that many babies have been needlessly damaged by his approach to sleep training?

The 'rod for your own back' people remind me of one of the nurses in the maternity ward I was in after a CS - she told me I'd be a 'slave' to DS if I picked him up in the night. He was 24 hrs old.