No Cry Sleep Solution - slowly but surely....

[chIRIStmasfairybigpants]

Shiny new thread (saw your post Bikebug

Not been on for a while as we've been a house full of colds and having new heating installed (the warmth is bliss) so DS has been sleeping in with me again as he couldn't breathe
Progress has still been made though as I've only been bringing him in from about 11ish(because I'm lazy)and he's been waking coughing during the evening but managing to resettle himself quite a lot.

I really think we're getting there (though it maybe his age too )

How's everyone else doing?

I'm new, soooooo glad to see so many others who don't do the controlled crying. I'm guessing you all have not tried or won't try this method. I feel such a wimp as everyone I know said it's the only way to make her sleep. I just can't let her cry like that, It's not natural. I can't believe how little sleep I've had since she was born (not to mention the last weeks of pregnancy)Anyway nearly 10mths on and she's getting better, sleeping through with the odd night waking.I've tried so many variations to her routine adjusting timings etc... Fingers crossed we've turned a corner.Though it's only been a week!! Now I have to learn to sleep, as I'm so used to getting up 4-5 times a night. I wake paranoid and have to creep in and check her! (which will most probably start waking her!!!)

Take it all back, bad night. 11pm waking, 3am waking and 5am waking!!!!

sooo glad to find this thread. I have just bought the ncss book on amazon and am going to give it a go once dd goes back to school next tuesday. I'll stand more a chance once I am on my own and can concentrate on lo.
How is it going for you all? Any top tips?

worst.night.ever.

i spent half the night crying and begging him to sleep. It's not 'No Cry' if you cry either, is it?!

DetentionGrrl, I don't know what to say, poor you. We were up all night too, but that was because DS has caught 1 million cold germs on his first day at nursery and is in a right state. He woke up 5 times before 10pm, I got up to him at 12.30am, his dad was up with him from 1.30 to 5 am, I took over at 5.50am.

Hi shaft1 and cruisemum1, welcome. Yes, this thread is full of people who don't feel that cc is the solution for them and their los. The NCSS is slow progress, but for most of us it has been progress . I've decided that for me, the secret is in the subtitle - gentle ways to help your baby sleep through the night - not to get your baby to sleep through the night! I think cc forces the pace, the NCSS helps your baby to sleep through when they are ready. If they're not ready yet, it doesn't seem to work. What do the rest of you think? Does that sound right?

don't get me wrong- there has been progress. Don't be put off new comers!

he can sometimes be shushed/rocked to sleep rather than fed to sleep, and naps in his cot in the day (usually). It's a cold and teething that's screwed me up. Before this we were managing sleeping for 5/6 hour periods.

It can't be any worse tonight anyway.....can it?!

oh Lord! I haven't even finished the book yet and I am scared! Does it work? How does it work? ds was awake on and off from 8:30pm to 3:30am this morning but this is very unusual as he has a cold which has thrown him into total sleep chaos. I am hoping that this resolves itself as the cold improves but during it he has been regularly waking for a suck (he is bf) and that is keeping him awake even though it sends him to sleep iyswim, . I sometimes feel that I am digging a big hole from which I will never escape - anyone else??

things will fluctuate cruisemum- and the book says that when they teeth, are ill or are denied their usual daytime routine, they might be difficult. slowly but surely is the key.

I've had a poo few days, but DS seems better tonight. Hopefully getting back to the routine we were seeing pre-molars and cold.

crosses fingers like hell

good night last night

woke twice, slept in his cot all night (not our bed) and got up at 6am. Happy lady!!

detentiongirl - is this purely down to ncss methods?

I can't say, there's no real way of knowing. I do know i'd rather do it than get him to sleep through by teaching him that if he cries, i will not comfort him.

sorry have not had time to read back through all the messages I have missed.

We tried medised the other night as lo had an awful cold and was struggling with the breathing, feeding, sleeping thing. What a nightmare. He did not sleep any better but instead half woke up at 5am crying his heart out and unable to open his eyes. Took what seemed like forever to be comforted (did not even want the breast) and could not be put down for 3 hours as he would cry in the most awful way. It took until midday before he was back to his normal self.

We have put ncss on hold over Christmas due to the cold and changes in routine but I am going to restart on Monday. We have had some awful nights - hourly wake ups, waking up at 3am and not going back to sleep - but it seems to be 3 hourly wake ups at the moment. This is bliss!!!! We've just started weaning as well so I am expecting a lot.

Sorry it is such a long one. Hope everyone had a good Christmas and I wish you all a sleepy New Year

lori - sorry to hear of your awful nights. my lo is jsut recovering from a cold so I am going to start doing ncss when dd goes back to school on Tuesday. Got any tips?

Sorry that this is a bit long but I hope it contains some words of encouragement for some of you.

We've been doing NCSS since early December with DD (17 mo) who got totally stuffed in the sleep department by moving and then a trip to Australia. Also co-inciding with molars and 2 colds on return to UK in Nov. We've gone through total sleep and nap disruption, me sleeping on the sofa bed with her, and then on a single mattress in her room most nights to avoid her getting into our bed. Using NCSS very slowly and gently we've got to the point now where some nights she wakes once or even multiple times but cries out and we go in, tell her to lie down and go to sleep - AND SHE DOES! She has not been back to our bed, or me back to the single in her room. And even some nights like last night when she cried out mummy but wasn't really crying so I didn't go in. She was fine and went back to sleep. She did this again at 6am and I thought that I was about to get up for the day but lo and behold, I rolled over and it was 8am, she and we had gone back to sleep.

We still have to sit in her room at bedtime but this takes no more than 10 mins, a lot less than the hours of anguished CC that we went through before turning to this approach. I really can see the progress she's made even if it is slow. However I am totally convinced of this method - OK we might have to get up most nights and I'd rather not, but it's a quick trip in and out of her room for a little reassurance then we are all back to sleep. None of the horrendous battles we had, picking her up, putting her back, flailing about, hoping the neighbours weren't going to report us to NSPCC. I think we really turned a corner when we started NCSS and stopped picking her up and just sat by the cot and sat there and sat there. The first night was long but she quickly realised we weren't going to walk away from her and it didn't take much time for her to accept our presence. We now do the recommended 'night time tidying' so she gets used to us not just sitting there. Most nights at bedtime I sit by the door and my next move is to sit outside by the door and poke my head around.

I'm writing this just to hopefully encourage those of you who are embarking on this wondering if it's ever going to work - especially with older babies/toddlers. The thing I can't bear about CC is that every time you have another cold or something that sets you back you have to go through it all again. And you always will have setbacks, you don't just do sleep training once and it's 'fixed'. The exponents of CC describe night waking situations as 'sleep problems', 'sleep issues' and so on. I'm not denying it doesn't feel like a problem at the time but I do think these issues are very normal and what virtually all babies and parents go through at one stage or another. I loved the description of being your child's hero. It is a wonderfully positive attitude which can be hard to conjure up at 3am but we have to remember that they aren't doing it to annoy us, it's just their pure, primal baby need for the comfort of their wonderful parents and I think if you can find a way of giving that, and it allows you all to get a nights sleep in a way that you are happy about then you are doing a great job. Good luck for your own journey.

pen73 - that is a lovely post. Very encouraging. I am looking forward to starting ncss but am waiting til tues to implement it.
thanks

pen73 Great message, brought tears to my eyes. Couldn't read it out to Hubby as kept getting choked! It does feel good to know there's like minded people out there. Thanks.x

Pen73
Great message.
Have you followed NCSS or gradual retreat stuff that some people on this thread have talked about (or are they the same thing?)
Having driven myself slightly mad/anxious by reading books I have not yet bought NCSS - although am a fan of the principle and not CC. (and I guess have been trying to do this anyway).
So far at bedtime (naps a bit more of a mare) have been really lucky and DS has gone off no problem. Night wakings were frequent but then I put him in a baby hammock and that has helped alot. He wakes less, often bounces himself back off and a few times I have had to go in and reassure.
Bedtimes he starts crying now (last two weeks) unless I put my hand on him and then he seems to go to sleep. He then starts again - am I leaving the room too soon?
What should be my next step to get to where you are?
DS is nearly 8 months (and teething at the mo!) Thanks to anyone for advice.

I'd say the NCSS involves a kind of gradual retreat. The idea is to move your chair from the cotside to eventually out of the room. I doubt I'm at all qualified to comment on anyone else's situation but I'll try for what it's worth: I'm trying to think back to last year before she was standing up etc as my DD is at quite a different stage now to your DS at 8 mo. There are 2 ways of looking at it I guess - either you can sit there for longer until he's asleep, it does always take them longer to get into deep sleep than you think, around 15mins. Once you hear the breathing become deeper and regular. Mine sucks her thumb so when she stops sucking it's a good que that she's asleep. Or you can try a bit of leaving once he is aclm but not asleep and going straight in again if he does cry out. Sometimes he might settle again you never know - a more risky strategy I know! It's very hard to do any kind of sleep training if they are having active teething, as if they are in pain they pretty much want you around. I also think the bottom line is you know how best to approach the situation by trusting your instinct. I know we often aren't confident that we are doing the right thing and we all reach for the books hoping they will tell us what to do, but we do use our instinct all the time, otherwise when do you know when to put your hand on him, when to enter the room and so on. Keep on comforting him, it sounds like you are on the right track. Look for the little improvements and you will see that things do slowly get better.

Just to recap: I am starting the put some ncss strategies into place today as ds is a terrible napper and has got progressively worse at bedtimes/during the night over the past month or so.He is only 4 mths but as things are getting worse not better I want to resolve it now. (Mind you he hs now been asleep in car seat following school run for nearly 2 hrs! ) He is bf to sleep following a lovely bedtime routine which hsa been in place since birth. Lately he seems to wake after bf almost treating it as a nap and then takes 1 - 2 hrs to settle. He seems overful but will only be settled by bf (occasionally rocking but this takes aaaaggggggeeees!) which makes him uncomfortable so he thrashes about bobbing on and off the boob. It is so frustrating esp for 9 yo dd who is often left to her own devices during this time. I cannot see how me withdrawing my boob every 10 secs will make any difference to his settling himself. Does it anyone? What do I do???

I need your help.... wiht ncss for babes who are bf to sleep and use breast as dummy, does the withdrawal of your boob method from their mouth actually work???! My ds seems more dependent than ever! Awake every 2 hrs last night for a quick suck. Not even feeding - just sucking himself to sleep. I want to hear from mums who have had success wth this as I reaching hte end of my tether exhaustion wise

Hi Cruisemum, my dd is exactly the same, waking every 1.5 - 2hrs all through the night and insisting on suckling back to sleep. I've been trying the Pantly pull-off thing for MONTHS, with very limited success. She will suckle herself almost to sleep, yank herself off and turn over. If she doesn't go off (often she does), she'll roll over and start again. Worst case, this back and forth thing can go on for an hour or more, in which case I'd rather she just suckled off to sleep properly. It has worked enough to allow me to sneak away if she naps in bed during the day. And when she rouses briefly, she doesn't ALWAYS need to suckle back to sleep. However, I've been at it for 6 months.

I think that some babies are more willing than others though. I can see that the technique may work with another baby. Mine is the kind who wouldn't even have her father hold her for the first few months, wouldn't let me put her down at all, refused cots, moses baskets, hammocks, any form of 'lovey' item, refused expressed milk from bottles using thousands of different teats, slow to take solids, wanting breast all the time... you get the idea. I think you are more likely to see success with a less 'fussy' baby.

Although my success has been limited, I reckon it's still worth persevering with. Good luck.

danceswithbaby - so, in a nutshell, it doesn't work?! I only just started thsi but it seems fruitless. I cannot see how pulling a boob out of lo's mouth repeatedly will help him to self settle. He knows what he ewants and at 12, 2, 4, 5 and 6am he is likely to get it for an easy, quiet life /. I have to get him off the sucking thing and keep hoping that he will do it himself but it is defo getting more not less. Maybe when he is off breastfeeding and weaned???

Hi all (and belated happy new year!)- long time no post. I've tried to catch up a bit and it's lovely to see others people having success too so I thought I'd pop in to give a bit of moral support to those of you still having a bad time.

Just a thought to bear in mind in the wee hours (and I know it's been said before) but by doing this method we are doing such a wonderful thing for our babies; putting their needs before our own; watching, listening and learning from them; allowing them to grow, confidently, secure in the knowledge that we are always there for them.

Big round of applause for us!!

...and sleepy vibes to all the babies who've not quite got there yet

hi all I did write a huge message to you all but it was deleted before I could post it (DD1) so welcome to all the newbies and hello regulars.

Well here is where we are at - breaking point it has actually got a lot worse. DD2 (1 in 2 weeks) is getting up every 1 1/2 to 2 hours (before she would have gone about 4 hours at a time maybe more). I have stopped BFing during the day now and am planning to wind down Bfing completely in the next few weeks. She is not hungry as she eats loads during the day and I have even added toast before bedtime. So on a typical night she is going down at 8ish (with all the NCSS wind down things)and both DP and I know she will be up at least once before we got ot bed at 11, it means we have not kind of time to ourselves as you are just waiting on her crying then one of us has to go settle her. Even when we got to bed at 11 chances are she will be up in the next few hours, last night was particularly horrendous up at 9ish, 11.20, 12ish, 1ish and 2.20am so I got very little sleep until about 2.30am as the wind is very bad here and DD1 was up twice too. The thing is you know that even at 2.30am you are not going to get to morning before being woken again 4ish and 5ish this morning. DP is up at 6.10am for work so you can imagine how he is feeling.

Day naps are still pretty bad but since Monday I have been leaving her to cry for a bit, on Monday she was dead beat so I was cuddling and shhing her to sleep but DD1 needed me so I put her in DD1's cot put her Tomy dreamshow thing on and left her, went back every few minutes (which seemed to make her worse) and after about 20 minutes she was asleep for about and hour, Tuesday she had no nap (night time still horrendous), yesterday I did the DD1's cot routine again and she fell asleep after 15 minutes of whimpering. I was spying on her and she seems to just lie there and whimper before going to sleep whereas if I go in and sit with her she stands up and tries to talk and play with me.

So where now? Am painting her room this weekend and she is going into it next weekend. DP going to do the first two shifts (she settles better for him think it's the no boob thing) and we are going to sleep in with her for the first few weeks, picked up and shhed/rubbed/patted then hopefully it will be a gradual withdrawal like someone else has done.

Have mixed feelings about stopping BFing but we need to get some sleep it is affecting every aspect of our lives just now. The pantley pull off hasn't worked for us at all. Like someone else also said she will only pull off when she is ready.

i think the pantley pull off thing is pants!