Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

I want to hurt my baby

371 replies

ShameOhShame · 12/12/2015 03:10

It's been another shitty night in a row, waking up every 1-2hours, crying fussy baby, takes ages to put him down to sleep, same thing days and nights, fucking hours of rocking the bastard to sleep only for him to scream suddenly and wake up again, I've had enough, I'm on my knees with exhaustion, I love him when I'm awake and trying to function normally but at night when he wakes me yet another time I fucking hate him, I hate him I hate him I hate him, I have to put him down before I do something terrible to him, I want to leave my house in my pyjamas in the middle of the night and never return, I want to leave him in the street for someone else to take care of him, I want to call my health visitor and tell her that I'm thinking about killing my baby and myself cause I won't be able to live with that so the ss take him away for ever, the worst thing is it's true, I want to put an end to it, I'm fucking exhausted I just can't do it any more, I wanted this baby so much and here I am now talking about killing him but he will kill me with exhaustion otherwise so it's me or him really, no one cares how I feel in all this, I need to protect myself, he's thriving while I'm wasting away

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Whatthefreakinwhatnow · 15/12/2015 10:47

I had a post on here earlier in the year asking why,now that DD was sleeping longer stretches (thank you sleepyhead! literally a life saver!) did I feel worse than ever?

I promise it does get better, but one night of decent sleep doesn't make up for months of crap, it takes time to get better, but it will Smile

Cleo81 · 15/12/2015 10:50

Your dh sounds like he was pretty horrible to start with and very unsupportive. He sounds like my dh, he just doesn't think and tends to put himself first.

However, he sounds like he's really trying now and although it probably seems OTT the way he's acting now at least he's trying to make it up to you. I think the letter was lovely as lots of men find it very difficult to express their emotions. I can see how him saying he's overwhelmed with the responsibility of being a father is a bit rich from your point of view but I think he's been honest, he's acknowledged his previous selfish behaviour and is now trying to be more involved. Unless you no longer want the relationship I would give him the benefit of the doubt, put his past behaviour behind you and allow him to give you the help you asked for. It will make your life easier and might bring you closer together as you're now a partnership working to solve this problem not just you alone. He's late stepping up but at least he has.

I agree and think if you don't let dh try to settle ds and build up more of a relationship with him the problem won't be solved. It's hard when a babies crying and you know you can sooth them a lot quicker but I think you should let dh keep trying first. Your ds has got too used to you. It's the same with our dd she's Got too used to me putting her to bed and I want dh to start doing it once she's better so it's not reliant on me.

AmusingSpoonerism · 15/12/2015 11:01

OP you've done so fantastically well and have had some great advice on here.

Your DH sounds like he is trying to communicate and make amends now, I hope it goes some way towards reconciliation for you. I agree with everything cleo said above.

Just wanted to add that although my DH has been very involved right from the start and has a great relationship with six month old DS, if DS wakes in the night and wants a comfort suckle or feed he gets frantic and furious the second he sees DH and stays like that until I take over. He's worked out where the boobies are. So I wouldn't read too much into your DS not being soothed by DH.

You're doing all the right things. You'll get through this. Flowers

Eminado · 15/12/2015 11:54

Delurking to say i am so glad someone has said this:

. Unless you no longer want the relationship I would give him the benefit of the doubt, put his past behaviour behind you and allow him to give you the help you asked for. It will make your life easier and might bring you closer together as you're now a partnership working to solve this problem not just you alone. He's late stepping up but at least he has.

NOT to minimise your experience at all but the sleep deprivation stage is SO intense you just cant see past it.

I/we had a TERRIBLE time with a refluxy boob monster - i wanted to leave\divorce\smash DHs head in - you name it Sad.

But things DO get so much better (i am pregnant again Xmas Shock) and your DH doesnt sound completely rotten although
I completely recognise and remember your Angry.

Flowers
Booboostwo · 15/12/2015 11:56

I had the same problem with my DD who would not settle for anyone but me. You couldn't leave her to get over it as she just wouldn't and her desperate crying could be heard all over the house.

It does get better. Hopefully you are through the worst of it and you'll start seeing glimmers of hope. Your DH should keep trying, maybe he could try sitting next to you on the sofa and gradually have more and more physical contact with your DS until he is holding him. Does your DS tolerate the buggy or a sling? If yes your DH should take him out of the house for a really long walk.

When your DS is a little bit older he can start on solids which will give your DH more options for distracting and consoling him. Peek-a-boo also helped my DD learn that when I went away I would come back, but again that only works with an older baby.

Viviennemary · 15/12/2015 12:00

My DD was pretty bad for screaming day and night. Sometimes in the afternoon I'd put her in the extension in a carry cot and let her yell it out. I'd have a go at this controlled crying. It was the only way I could cope. Still feel a bit guilty now. I went on to bottle feeding too after a few months of this fifteen times of wakening in the night. So don't feel guilty about this. It didn't help a huge deal but it did a bit. DS was very easy to b/f so I don't think it's any kind of personal failure on the mother's part like some people seem to think.

midsummabreak · 15/12/2015 12:10

Hi again glad you had a slightly better night,much better than the 1-2 hour stints. Although it sucks they do wake at night for some time to come, and that is normal, but it is really great if he is starting to sleep for longer stints. :)

I agree with others that it is fantastic you were able to tell our husband what a dufus he has been, and show him you expect him to man u to being a Dad. it does sound like he is trying to express his feelings to sort this out and start to offer support now he realises he needs to step up- that's great too :)

To be fair to him, he can only form a bond with his son, if he has more and more time changing nappies, feeding or settling & soothing & playing with bub. I hope you can accept your husband's help, as I know it is horrible hearing your son scream blue murder, but it is OK, some babies go through this, and so long as he has been regularly checked by GP/health visitor,your son may sound dreadful, but will be OK.

the more time your son is held and settled by his Dad, the more he will form a bond and feel soothed in his arms

To be fair to your husband, have you discussed how things were in his home when he was brought up? Were most of the chores and child rearing relegated to his Mum? If so, it prob will take time for him to adjust his mental picture of what it means to be a Dad. Great he seems to be realising that him taking a back seat and expecting you to do all the child rearing tasks,maybe like his mum did, is so very not appropriate in your situation, especially as years ago most Mums had other support such as neighbours,aunties and Nanas/grans .

ElphabaTheGreen · 15/12/2015 12:57

OP - small babies, especially BFed babies, don't really acknowledge the existence of the father until they are much, much older. Your baby is not picking up on any 'vibes'. You are his entire world and anything that's not that is terrifying for him. Some babies are far, far more like this than others - you've got a baby who is very securely attached to you. Difficult as it is to cope with now, it really is a positive thing in the long run.

My DH struggled with that concept with DS1, who barely looked at him until he was almost 18 months old. They are now absolutely glued to each other and DS1 asks for DH more than me. DS2 was a little over 12 months before he registered DH - I think he probably copied his big brother a bit and copied his enthusiasm for DH. At 16mo, DS2 now calls everyone he loves 'dada'.

ImtheChristmasCarcass · 15/12/2015 14:40

OP, it appears to me that he's trying. Try not to let yourself wait on tenterhooks for him to 'fail'. Remember to 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst'. And if he slacks off because your family wants to take care of their lovely new family member, try to look at it as a break for both of you. Not as a break for you, but 'slacking off' for him.

It's not that your baby doesn't feel 'safe' or sees DH as a 'threat', it's that he doesn't have a milk-filled tit and you do AND the fact that he (DH) is nervous handling him. It's that DH hasn't been part of that routine. It's that you feel tense when he's trying to settle DS. Try having him sit quietly with you when you're bf, remember that you need to relax with him there, too. Perhaps have him start whispering songs or stories to him. Let him become, in DS's mind, a comforting presence connected to you. Then move to having him stroke DS whilst you're BF and then move to him cuddling him by sitting next or behind you with his arms around DS as you BF. Take the steps slowly, let DS get used to the 'new' routine. Gradually DH will be able to take DS to settle once he's done feeding. Don't have DH try bottles until DS is calm and content with him settling him.

ShameOhShame · 15/12/2015 16:28

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. The problem with dh-ds relationship is that they barely see each other during the week (ds and me sleep in the morning after less-than-great nights when dh prepares for work and in the evening, when he comes back, ds is usually already asleep - he goes to bed for the night around 5pm and if I try to keep him up for dh's arrival, 6pm, he will be super cranky and screaming - not the best version of himself to enjoy daddy time) do if dh skips night settling/nappy changing he doesn't see ds at all. To be fair the proper refusal to wake up to the baby at night happened maybe twice and once he's up there is a lot of chatting/cooing with ds.

There is light at the end of tunnel as ds took a bottle today! Only had 1oz before he got properly angry and I gave him the boob and he had no idea what to do with the bottle (it was hilarious to watch!) but that's a start! Plus the medication seems to work as naps weren't interrupted by his squirming and painful cries today (instead he would wake up every 5mins looking for the dummy which he has spat out right before but nobody is perfect).

What regards my and dh's relationship I recognize his efforts but don't get too excited - I have seen it in the past and it always ends up in the same way - he's slowly slipping into doing less and less and expecting me to do more and more. I'm not going to stand in his way if he wants to do more around the baby now obviously but we will see what the future brings.

Thank you again ladies. You really helped me get through the darkest moments and I want you to know that I appreciate it very much. All the posters admitting they went through the same and experienced the same feelings, those giving advice (especially the tips on milk protein allergy and silent reflux! I gave up dairy as well as treating ds with omeprazole) and those sharing their personal experience - a big thank you to you all. Now I know the way forward and feel and it will be fine. Enjoy your evening

OP posts:
Fugghetaboutit · 15/12/2015 17:15

Glad you went to gp and got something for ds, he sounded in proper pain poor thing and seems to be working.

Fugghetaboutit · 15/12/2015 17:16

I bet giving up dairy will really help too like I said up thread. Ds was a nightmare if I had a cup of tea!

SausageSmuggler · 15/12/2015 17:36

I'm so glad you're starting to see some positive changes op. Have everything crossed that your DH has realised the error of his ways.

Absofrigginlootly · 15/12/2015 18:12

Oh I'm so pleased to here the omeprazole is helping Grin

Don't panic if baby regresses a little after the initial improvement.... Reflux is a condition which fluctuates, some days will be better than others.

It takes 4-6 weeks for the omeprazole to reach full effectiveness anyway and you may need the dose adjusting upwards a few times as your baby puts on weight.

If your Gp suspects cmpi/soy allergy, get a referral to paediatrician and paediatric dietician for advice and support on dairy/soy-free weaning. And advice on how to do dairy retrials in the future.

You will also need specialist formula milks prescribed (not lactose free!!) if you ever want to go down that route and GPs are often reluctant to prescribe due to the cost. Whereas paediatricians seem happier to prescribe (ime).

Good luck with everything (including your 'D'H.....I truly hope he has seen the light!)

Absofrigginlootly · 15/12/2015 18:19

Also, Google Dr sears high needs baby....(my DD to a tee!). It was so helpful at helping me understand that my DD's fussiness wasn't down to my crap parenting (how it felt)

Now I look back on the early days and compare to her current personality I can see that not all of her fussiness/clinginess was due to her reflux....like mathanxiety and Elphaba say, some baby's just need you more (and they know of what they speak!! They both helped me loads back in the day and their advice turned out yo be spot on!) thank you ladies!

Ps, this book is fab (all about reflux even though it says colic).....

Annarose2014 · 15/12/2015 19:12

I'm one who stopped BFing early (12 weeks) cos of terrible gastric distress at nights. I tried dairy-free but the improvement was only moderate at best so the GP gently suggested going 100% formula. DS went on special formula and tbh we never looked back.

I was all upset at quitting BF so early, but it was 1000000% the best thing for both of us. If things don't improve or if its awful being dairy free you may consider it now that he may improve with the bottles.

Tbh I only really started enjoying him afterwards. Blush Before it was just too stressful to enjoy.

midsummabreak · 15/12/2015 20:16

If your husband's pattern is slipping back after the initial show of flowers,chocolates, then you are right to anticipate it again

It maybe has worked for him before, but this time he can't expect you to live with him behaving like that while you go under from sheer exhaustion
Btw you should name change to saucepan clanger you go girl Xmas Grin

ElphabaTheGreen · 15/12/2015 21:57

Don't overthink the DS-DH 'relationship', OP. That's a non-concept for your tiny tiny DS at this stage. It would be nice for your DH to spend with him during the week, though, and you say his bedtime is 5pm? That's way too early. Night sleep circadian rhythms don't kick in until after 6pm, so there is a chance this could be contributing to frequent wakings.

At four months he should still be on four naps a day, with no more than 90 minutes of awake time between each nap, regardless of how long the nap lasted for. If he has one mega long nap, it might cut the number of naps down to three, but if you can concentrate on getting him asleep and keeping him asleep for at least 30 mins (on the boob, on you if necessary) after every 90 minutes of awake time, he should still have a good period of awake time when your DH gets home from work. Then your DH could do something like a nightly bath and into pyjamas with him at an appropriate time (i.e. for fear of sounding like a broken record player, 90 minutes after the fourth nap ended) after 6pm. That way he becomes part of a settling, sleep-time routine.

Also, he should be a bit happier and more put-downable during awake times in the day if you've got some decent naps into him. Some people find that getting decent naps follows through to improved night sleep. It didn't make a jot of difference when it came to night wakings for my two, but ensuring good naps during the day actually revolutionised day time manageability as they were far less clingy. I gave up trying to achieve the holy grail of cot naps and all naps just happened on me, which forced me to rest as well. Life got so much pleasanter when I watched awake time like a hawk and had enforced bum-parkage three or four times a day.

mathanxiety · 15/12/2015 22:49

Is it possible that he reacts this way because he witnesses us arguing in his presence a few times? He reacts badly to a raised voice, looks miserable and cries. Does he perceive dh as some kind of 'danger' to mummy? I feel so bad thinking about it now. I never wanted to ruin their relationship.

No and no.

And he is not 'angry' with the bottle. He is puzzled he knows you are near and doesn't understand why no boob. He has developed a really strong bond to you and loves the way you meet all of his needs. When something new is introduced he notices it. His cries are nature's way of ensuring the human species survives mothers respond to their own baby after all, and his ability to focus on his mum and on milk very single mindedly is another reason humankind has survived this long. Babies are programmed to stay close to the milk source.

I agree the DH-DS relationship is a non concept right now. It will happen, but it is irrelevant at the moment to the baby. Don't worry about it. Encourage your DH to keep paying attention, and ChristmasCarcass's advice is great.

The DH-Shame relationship is, however, something that needs attention. I am a bit Hmm at his letter. Yes indeed, he had the luxury of indulging in a crisis, and as Annarose said, how did that stop him from being a friend to you? When you feel yourself having The Rage at him, try to shelve it for later maybe do some mindful breathing for a while, where you concentrate on your breath and nothing else when the two of you can have a discussion. Certainly if you intend to try for another baby at any point, he needs to be right up to speed on the friendship front.

I second the suggestion of Dr Sears' 'The High Needs Baby' (aka my DD3). DH needs to read it too.

You will feel like something the cat dragged home even when you start experiencing longer periods of sleep, partly because you are used to the short sleep periods, bad as they are (were) and your body will experience a bit of 'shock' adjusting and getting sleep cycles back. Also, if you have a bad night again after a few good nights you will feel utterly shattered, worse than you felt while you could count on no sleep, paradoxically. It's partly because you feel optimistic, imo, that things are improving, and then you are brought back down to earth.

ShameOhShame · 16/12/2015 17:09

Elphaba ds doesn't have any regular napping pattern. He will have his first nap within 1-2hrs after waking up in the morning but we wake up any time between 7am (if the night was ok-ish) and 10am (if horrible - both of us have to catch up on missed night sleep then). Afterwards he may nap 2 to 3 times if we stay at home (rarely, only if the weather is truly terrible) and he's bored with me or have many shorter naps in the sling if we meet some friends and he can't lie down in his cot. I am definitely not willing to stay at home with him to enable him to take regular naps as leaving the house is my life saver! And I have to persevere putting him in his cot - I feel trapped with him sleeping on me as I litterally can't do anything, can barely move of fear to wake him up. It's a claustrophobic feeling. It reminds me of the dreadful first month when all my body ached all the time, forced to keep one position all the day... Even now as I type he's sleeping on me - he was tired but wouldn't settle in the cot so I have to hold him - my spine is aching, my left arm is numb, I can't even go to the toilet or get a drink because he will wake up and scream, and it will be much more difficult to settle him down again.

Last night was bad. I am bloody tired. I walk like a 90-yrs old woman and I feel like it. The hv came today and I scored very high on the pnd questionnaire. Not surprised. Referrals, organisations, leaflets, GP visits aligned. It's good that they want to help me but it sounds like a lot of work.

OP posts:
Purpleboa · 16/12/2015 17:27

I hear you on the 90 year old woman thing. My back, wrists and arms constantly ache. I think it's because of breastfeeding and the hormones it produces? When DD sleeps on me it puts pressure on my lower back and aggravates my sciatica. Getting up every morning is painful. It's ridiculous, I'm only 36!

Yeah health visitor said I scored highly on the pnd quiz thing. I said I don't need counselling I need sleep!! And even if I did get access to counselling, when the hell would I go - I'd have to take DD with me! I gave up on physio sooner than I should have done because DD screamed the place down at every appointment...

ElphabaTheGreen · 16/12/2015 20:04

There is an element here of having to accept the baby you've got rather than trying to create the baby you 'should' have. That is something that you're going to find even harder with PND, and I'm glad you're on the radar for this with your HV and GP.

Babies nap in their cots twice a day for two hours, while you bake, catch up on phone calls and, (hahahahaha) have a well deserved baby-free rest yourself, right?

There are babies like this. You don't have one. Neither do I - twice.

If they don't sleep in their cots, that's fixable, right? No, not always. DS1 would only nap on me or in the car until he dropped naps altogether at 2.5yo. They just didn't happen otherwise, even with the intervention of a sleep consultant, and I was left with a distraught, overtired, clingy, tantrumming beast. I fought, I railed, I felt trapped, I felt desperate, I felt exhausted. Then I accepted it, started getting snacks and box sets lined up after the appropriate period of awake time, and let him sleep on me. Or I'd plan a car journey or a pram walk after the right time had passed, and he'd sleep on our way somewhere. Sure, if we were in the car, I'd have to sit in the car with him as he also wasn't one of those babies you could transfer into a pram and expect him to stay asleep, but that's what smartphones and MN are for GrinSuddenly, by meeting his biological need for supported sleep, he was getting enough sleep, at the right times, and I was getting enforced rest, which I was able to set up to be as pleasurable as possible for me, and also still enable me to get out of the house.

I tried again with DS2. I knelt on the floor in the pitch dark for almost every one of DS2's naps for the first 12 weeks of his life, knowing I knew everything about facilitating infant sleep, and failing. I swaddled, I dummied, I patted, I shushed, I side-lay, I bounced until I thought he would get mild shaken-baby syndrome. I gave up, and let him nap on me, or in the sling, or in the pram, or in the car. He slept well, and I got a far pleasanter child during his awake times. Now, at the age of 16mo, I'm just getting fairly consistent cot naps, which is a very enjoyable novelty, and I almost rage at the fact that some people get this all the time, from birth. I am under no allusion that this is how it will stay until he drops naps. Infant sleep is infuriatingly fluid until the age of three years old, or beyond depending on your baby's development.

I have more words of sleep warrior wisdom, but DS2 is most definitely asleep and I have to work my magic on DS1 now. Back in a mo...

ElphabaTheGreen · 16/12/2015 21:00

Right, where was I.

He doesn't have to have a regular napping pattern, or a Gina Ford-style schedule with naps at set times. However, two or three naps a day is not enough at his age, not when he's a frequent night-waker. It means he's staying awake far longer than he should at his age, which means that when he really needs to go to sleep, he's overtired. This leads to 1) an inability to fall asleep without a great deal of help 2) an inability to stay asleep 3) screaming, clinginess, more screaming, then more screaming or 4) all of the above.

Again, there are babies who don't nap much during the day, but their night sleep tends to be more consolidated.

To re-iterate, all you need to do is watch awake time. If he wakes up at 6am, start watching him like a hawk at 7:30am. First eye-rub, first yawn, you get him asleep. If you catch these first sleepy signs, this is your best chance of getting him to fall asleep, and this first nap is probably the best and easiest chance you have of getting a cot nap if you want to keep trying them. Cot naps get harder to achieve as the day wears on.

When he wakes up, note the time. Go out, but organise your activities so he'll be in the sling with you walking 90 minutes later. Or, do stuff around the house, then plan to stick him in the sling and go out at the first eye-rub/yawn after 90 minutes.

Note his next wake up time. Have lunch. Organise nap-snacks - I used breastfeeding to justify afternoon nap cupcakes purchased during the second nap's outing Grin Once 90 minutes have passed, boil the kettle while you watch for sleepy signs. First yawn/eye-rub, take Brew and Cake through to living room, place in handy table, put wildly addictive trash TV, stick him on the boob and let him sleep. This usually took me through to about 2:30pm when DS2 was four months (I was still up the wall and railing when DS1 was the same age).

Cook, do jobs, go out again, final very brief nap - usually only lasts about 20 minutes - 90 minutes after the third one ended. DS2 usually had this one in the sling while I cooked dinner.

This should get him to a point where he is awake and civilised when your DH gets home. Bed time is, you guessed it, 90 minutes after the fourth nap ended, which should definitely be after 6pm, so get your DH to bathe him and get him into his pyjamas 60 minutes after the fourth nap ended. Maybe even get him to do something like baby massage, just your DS and DH, in the room that he will (eventually...) sleep in by himself so he gets positive sleepy associations with the room - keep the lighting very muted, like a floor lamp only, to start his melatonin naturally flowing.

Awake time extends to 2 hours at around six months (so number of naps goes to three); 3-3.5 hours around 9 months (number of naps drops to two). They drop down to one nap between the ages of 12 and 18 months, and that transition is a can of bullshit I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I know it seems like a lot of work, but babies are hard, hard work that sometimes can't be delegated to others. All of the above may make for pleasanter awake times and by reducing his over tiredness, may have a knock-on to improve night sleep. Or it may not. But it's just how he's made if it doesn't.

Hang in there Thanks He'll be an elf in the school Christmas play before you know it and all this will be a distant, hazy memory.

lougle · 16/12/2015 21:43

Can I recommend Carobel? You can get it prescribed. Or buy it from pharmacies.

DD1 was massively refluxy - I only changed my top if she'd puked 4 times over it. But nobody would believe me as she was gaining weight. She would scream from 10pm to 6am. All night. The only way to calm her was to feed her or smack her firmly (but not hard) on the back.

DD2 was also massively refluxy, but 'silently' -she would cry and scratch her ears/face and pump her legs. I went to the GP and said 'I've been here before. She has reflux and I want her seen: today'. I was sent up to the paediatric department and she was prescribed ranitidine. Meanwhile, I read about Carobel on MN. I went back to my GP,who had never heard of it but did find it in the BNF.

It was life changing!

Just a few teaspoons, mixed with a little breast milk, then fed to her on a spoon. It thickens the milk as it settles in the stomach, making it harder to reflux. She settled within days.