the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

Morning all - This thread is huge now isn't it!! And we are collectively having more success than failure now I think anyone fancy thinking of a positive title for thread mk2?

Still going great guns here (iris touches wood/throws salt over her shoulder and grasps lucky heather and four leaf clovers to her chest ) I thought I'd be clever and put DS down earlier last night to see if he'd sleep longer. He's been up since 5.30 so I think I was a little optimistic. However, he slept an hour less so I suppose that proves something (though I'm not quite sure what )

sashasmama - we're 2 1/2 mths into the NCSS and rigid daytime naps (and a lot of support from DH - who I now think is superman) seemed to be the key for us. It's so hard to carry on when you're on your knees with lack of sleep but I think this proves that determination (and support, more to the point)really can pay off.

The night waking was solved by DH doing nights and only offering water - when I felt the milk let down when he cried I always gave in ) He'd have a quick sip (still in the cot) then over the shoulder with patting/shushing. That progressed to doing the same but laying him down for shushing/patting, then to just shushing/patting (no water)then to shushing & no contact.

Detentiongrrl - I agree with your co-sleeping theory. We didn't always do it - it was a gradual thing for us because we were staying at my parents on & off for 3 months before my dad died. Co-sleeping/bf to resettle was the easiest thing to stop him waking the rest of the household. I think DS was being disturbed too easily and learned that the only way to get back to sleep was by being bf. But that may be specific to us.

Sweetkitty - so pleased for your success (it's always the teething that bugger it up though & make you think it's not working isn't it!)

big hugs to everyone else and hope last night was better for you xx

hello all!well done iris and lori!to everyone else huge hugs!
were still doing well although lo has cold so up all night.and back to cosleeping last 2 nights!just as we crack the sleeping something upsets it!!were still finding weekends hard too,the older children just wont let him sleep!i cant find way around it,ive tried allsorts including sticking a video on for them so i can put him down in peace but it never happens!
reading back through this thread is so helpful,better than the logs for marking success or lack of because were all recording how were feeling too instead of just times etc!

Thanks everyone for all your words of encouragement and support. It has made the last month or so so much easier to cope with. DS has an even better nights sleep last night so things are still positive. I know we have got all the big changes ahead (teething, learning to crawl / walk etc) but fingerscrossed I can catch up a bit with my sleep dept whilst it lasts! Big hugs for all those who are still making the small steps towards success.

An idea for a name for the new thread 'sleeping without tears - ncss mk2'

Sleepy thoughts to you all....

Yam tired. Snot working. Last night longest sleep stretch was 50 mins. Par for the course these days. Naps still brilliant though.

Those of you with success stories, is it really a 'no cry sleep solution'? How much crying did you have? Do you think the radical improvements you've seen are due to the NCSS techniques, or just the result of natural development?

Hmmm.. I am wondering that two danceswithbaby, but I have faith! It's very heartening to hear everyone's positive stories. I'm starting dummy removal on Friday as I can't face it alone. At least we can both be ratty together on Saturday. Wish me luck!

With my lo I was already doing most of the things suggested in the book (routine, different sleep associations, the gentle pull off) and I think his appalling sleep was due to his age and the improvements are down to his age. I do use some of the ideas for extending his nap and that sometimes works and the ideas for settling him down in the day and that also works sometimes. I found the book more reassuring and supportive and definately not a quick fix solution.

HOpe it works for your lo

hi all, long time no post. Just been catching up and reading DWB's post on 50 min sleeps - we were there for the last 2 weeks! And now it is getting better. Please don't despair. I honestly believe the NCSS is having an impact - DS knows now that it is bedtime, knows he needs naps, and he never used to know those things. A bit like Iris (though not as well supported ) my DH did a night of shushing which I think helped a lot, and I have massively reduced my feeding response in the middle of the night. By other people's standards our sleep is probably still awful - last night he woke at 8, 10.30, 1.30 and 5 ish, but every time (except for 1.30 when I fed him ) he went back down with just a shush and a back rub. Maybe he's never going to be a great sleeper, but the hourly waking thing was driving me to despair and anger, and I'm glad we are seeing improvement.

Hoorah! Last 2 nights little fella has only woken twice, and at roughly the same time.

( Does a little dance )

Have banished co-sleeping unless he's narky after 4am, and he's sleeping better. Also, he's had porridge at tea, rather than veg. Wonder if it's cos he's fuller? And his 1st tooth has emerged finally...which he demonstrated by biting me so hard on the nipple last night, i thought he'd broken the skin!

thank you iris for explaining how you did it. i am doing a similar thing except i am doing it solo, dh is not good with these sort of things - he's great with entertaining the lo, which means she instantly gets wide awake and wants to play when she sees dh!

i am at the stage of offering sips of water (also while she is in the cot) and then patting and shushing, trying not to pick her up.

danceswithbaby, no it's not really 'no cry', there is still quite a bit of crying but not hysterical crying to the point of vomitting like if i leave her alone to cry it out. i think for me it's not so much no cry, but the more important thing is that it's a different kind of crying. she is crying because she is frustrated that she has woken up and can't go back to sleep easily, but she knows i am there and i will help her, and not because she feels terrified that she has been abandoned in the dark (as in the cry-it-out method)...

do other mummies agree?

last night she did her usual - woke up at about 10ish, 11ish, then 1130 cos she couldnt seettle, then at 2ish, 230 cos she coudn't settle, 4ish, 430 cos she couldn't settle, and finally 6 when she had her milk.... arghhhhhhhh........

Gah! Danced too soon...rubbish night last night. I really think it's because he didn't have the porridge for tea.

Danceswithbaby - hope things are a little better for you now. I definately think doing NCSS has made a difference (lovey,shushing,gentle removal all worked for me). Though we've had some crying, as sashasmama said, it's not the distraught kind, more of a grizzle at being overtired and unable to sleep.

back to not great nights and no naps already!i think because hes been ill etc we got off track.i was ready to pass on book as i thought we'd cracked it!i think also as hes sleeping in till 7am instead of 5/6am thats why hes not having morning nap(i would prefer to get up earlier and give him a morning nap)which is then affecting his night sleep.and hes coughing.i'll wait till hes better and try and get back on track.

hi everyone, sorry in advance as Ive not been able to read the all the thread yet (Im at work) but wondered what ages your LO are? My dd is 2 and long story short sleep is a nightmare and always ends up with me which Id love to change.

Would this book help me sleep train a toddler or are your LO younger? TIA

Thanks Iris. Unfortunately nights are as bad as ever. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a 3 hour stretch of sleep.

I've been using the gentle removal thing since dd was 4.5 months (now 9.5). She pulls off herself and rolls over, finds she isn't going to sleep, rolls back and re-latches. This can go on for about 1.5 hours or until she's so full, or so frustrated she bites.

I've been trying patting/shhing/stroking for the same amount of time. If I withold the breast she gets really agitated which ALWAYS escalates to hysterical. So when boob fails I have to walk her.

NCSS has really helped with naps which are now as recommended and routine, but have had no affect on nighttime sleep whatsoever. Unless they can be blamed for making it worse.

Perhaps after 5.5 months the time has come to admit defeat and for me to learn to live with it. I can do that

I'm SO please with the success some of you have had or are having. It gives me hope that if I can eventually pin-point what it is that keeps waking my sweet girl we may yet get there in the end.

dwg,sorry to hear youre having such a rubbish time,no suggestions im afraid,just sympathy.
lynnc my ds is 11 months.

oh danceswithbaby don't give up! i have been feeling the same thing for days now. last night i decided to log it and depressingly it was exactly the same as when i started 2 weeks ago!! but i feel that i may have already crossed the point of no return... i don't know... i had thought if just giving in for a night and just feed her properly but i have a sneaking suspicion it's not going to even work cos she isnt even finishing her feed when i eventually give her milk in the morning ... and i'm scared it's going to unravel everything! so how...?

i am almost delirious with sleep deprivation and i have to concentrate on producing some killer design for the office as we are competing with other design agencies... all i want to do now is to go home and crawl back into bed!

so don't give up girl, i won't if you won't!

ps- dwb: may i suggest this if things get desperate: grit your teeth and completely stop breastfeeding at night. but to compensate you will probably have to offer some water or dummy and pick her up to rock. perhaps after a few days she will get used to not having milk..? then you can move on from there... i know from personal experience that rocking and picking up is just as habit forming as the boob... and some of you may be asking what's the point then. but for me it means i am moving on, perhaps not moving forward very much, but i am slowly altering her habit and eliminating one thing at a time...

i hope santa got my letter...

lynnc, my lo is 8 months. i guess it must be slightly diff for toddlers as they are that much cleverer already... have you tried the other suggestions in the book for older babies, like the whole mind game thing of giving 'get out of bed vouchers' and bedtime stories about sleeping etc... sorry if this is not too helpful, perhaps the mums with older children can offer better advice..

I've had enough...have been up since 2am now. Think it's his teeth- keeps trying to gnaw his blanket. Have changed, rocked, fed, calpol-ed, shushed and used mobile. I feel homicidal from lack of sleep

dg,big hug to you!its awful with no sleep,i shouted and screamed at ds1(5)this morning and felt awful afterwards as it was my lack of sleep not his behaviour,poor boy.

I swore at my DS aswell this morning...feel rather ashamed of myself. I have apologised to him (he's 21wks!)

Looking forward to a bath later

DS unlikely to get his naps today either as we've got workmen in

Iris glad to hear you ds is sleeping through. Lovely your dh was up for the job.... he wants you at the birthday bash

my ds is sleeping through alot more now and if he does wake its at 5am for a feed and then off to sleep for at least 2 more hours Am still co-sleeping with him I love it.

thanks Papillon - though Dh is away for a month so who knows what might happen!! we had a hideous first coule of nights but DSseems to be settling back down again now - he went from 12 - 7.30 last night (hence the jolly Christmas name change)
Hope everyone else is improving too x

Thanks for the encourangement Sashamama! Things have improved slightly. Well actually they haven't, it's just that we noticed yesterday a sharp little white point poking through dd's gum, so there is at least a reason behind it. It makes it much more bearable knowing that. She's been a bugger to get down and hasn't slept for longer than an hour at a time, but at least I know why!

I'm not going to give up on the NCSS, I'll keep doing what I'm doing, but after so long I reckon it's unlikely to have any more effect than it's had already.

As for stopping b/f at night, if I did that it'd be the 'uncontrolled crying, no-sleep solution'. This child is a boob addict!

oh girls i so know what u mean! i lost it with dd yesterday and yelled and swore at her too... felt really bad, am glad i can say it here iwthout being judged...

i am so sleep deprived i reversed my car into a pillar this morning at the office car park... oops. have now got a nasty scratch and dent in the paintwork...

my reflexes are really not there this morning... will down a couple of red bulls before driving home i think!!

hope you all have a better day

3.50am, and DS is crawling around his mat, having decided that this is a good time for an enormous poo and then to play. Wonderful! No workmen this week, so hopefully there'll be naps (for me too!)

Soooooooooo tired.