the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

Every 2 hours or less last night.

'This too will pass, and he is teething. This too will pass, and he is teething....'

Got asked if he slept through yesterday, and when i answered no, got looked at like i was the world's most awful mother

It does so annoy me when people think that 'sleeping though' is a sign of a good parent or a good baby. Little do they know that we are doing our absolute best for our lo and I personally think it is pure luck (as I know that there are parents out there with one lo who began sleeping through with no problem and another who just does not want to, for whatever reason)

After my success with co-sleeping tried it again but had a terrible night. After frequent wakings he awoke at 3am and after a feed decided to have one of his 'chatting' sessions. Eventually went back to sleep at about 5am and with using our white noise machine I did not have to feed him again until 7am.

Today he is refusing to nap and I can not use any of my 'last resort techniques' (hoover, pushchair, car) as I am waiting for a parcel. Eventually through exhaustion he went to sleep through bf but only for 30mins. Will have to carry on until exhausted enough to fall asleep through bf again. Looking forward to tonight - not!

am having an incredibly down day so thought id post and ramble - tis all tied in with the sleep problems of 8 week old dd not going down without falling asleep on the boob or me and almost always waking on attempted transfer. the result is cosleeping for the nights and her asleep on me in the days.

Why does it only it take just ONE comment from somebody to make you feel a complete failure on all parts. Somebody said 'What are you feeding her - shes a little pudding'. which she is i admit getting a bit chunky especially in the face. This makes me question, am i feeding her too much? - of course i am! cause she feeds for comfort to get to sleep and if i had the sleep thing sorted then this wudnt b a problem. I then start thinking im just useless cause she isnt having proper naps, doesnt sleep on her own and overfeeds for comfort to get to sleep. in fact i then start realising i cant do anything right and it spirals from there.

does anyone get this. its not normal for me as im described as bubbly, and am always usually pretty happy and cheerful. I now feel pressure in that theres all these things i need to put right (which were all my fault to begin with) and i dont know how or where to start. these feelings usually work their way out within 24 hours but in reality i DO have the whole sleep feeding issue to deal with and its really hard to know what to do.

Have just bought a bedside cot as suggested and am gonna give swaddling a proper try as im reading the dr harvey book (also suggested)

Hope things are going well 4 u all - you all desrve a box of roses and more and how nice it is that support IS out there.

Big hugs to you hayles. I found it really hard up to about 6 weeks. My lo is on the small side so I felt I was starving him. You can't over feed bf babies they are just naturally big or small. Sounds like you are doing everything to love and comfort your baby. She is only ever so young still - they really need you at this age. I found my lo only fell asleep when rocked, in a vibrating bouncy chair, with white noise on - and only for 30min. I used this to give him three naps a day and he was a much happier baby. He never fell asleep at the breast so I can't advise there. I was told it gets easier when they get to about 3 months and that is certainly true but unfortunately I've found that it has got harder again now he is 4 months. This period in their lives is ever so short - even though the sleep deprivation feels like it goes on for ever. If you read back through the thread most people here have been really down about their lo at their sleeping. Its cos we love them soooo much.

Big hugs and sleepy thoughts

Hayles - please don't feel down you cannot overfeed a BF baby, your DD is taking what she needs, all babies have chubby little faces it makes them look so cute. As they get older and get past a year they will stretch and change. Even my DD1 who was a small baby had a chubby little face but now she is so lean with no fat on here whatsoever. DD2 isn't so much fat but very big and tall and very solidly built. I feel proud that I fed this beautiful big girl until she was 6 months old. Babies can comfort suck without actually taking on much milk, when you first feed them you get the letdown and the milk is gushing and you can feel them glugging away, then you get the creamy hindmilk and they suck and rest, suck and rest. I think at this stage they aren't getting that much milk and it's for comfort only. Your little DD has only been in the outside world for 8 weeks, it's all a bit new and scary to her and she feels safe and secure cuddled up to you or sucking. Who can blame her really? Please don't beat yourself up about it she is your first baby and she will be past this stage very soon. Try and actually enjoy it soon she will be pushing you away and wanting to crawl away on her own. If YOU are happy with the cosleeping and sleeping on you then sod everyone else, she won't be like this forever you are not a failure. You are doing a great job as a mum. My DD1 started off her life cosleeping or on me and DP and on the whole she's a great sleeper and sleeps in her own room no bother (mostly) now. I treasured those first few months with her. Please rant away though if it makes you feel better.

lori - I know what you mean everything about being a parent is competitive and if your baby isn't sleeping through at 2 weeks you are made to feel a failure. I have had 2 DDs 18 months apart treated them the exact same one was a great sleeper, one wasn't. It is just your luck if they don't sleep though they are great in other ways

As for me great night last night both of them went down at 8.30pm without a peep until 5am (DD2) and 8pm (DD1) [SMILE]

Lori - totally agree. All young babies want is the comfort of their mum's body, especially boob. Since they grow so quickly it is all over so soon so it's a pity to be shamed out of 'enjoying' this close physical relationship by judgmental other parents. I found it incredibly empowering to realise that my body had such a wonderful ability to calm my children.

That said, it can feel like a huge sacrifice and it is desperately hard at times. Hang in there Hayles. You'll find a way of coping which makes life marginally easier and eventually you'll get to the stage when sleep gets better and your baby more independent. With hindsight it all seems such a short period of time.

[That said, my 7.5 mth dd is currently refusing to settle, so please excuse me whilst I give her a cuddle!]

I was thinking about some ideas for you Hayles. Does your lo sleep in the pram or car seat? In the ncss book she suggests finding different ways to help your lo sleep. My lo takes a while to sleep in the pram but likes a bumpy path, being ssshhed, and someone (not me as I am too tired) running with the pram!

If my lo is exhausted he will fall asleep whilst bf so I put the white noise on whilst bf and then lay him down once he is asleep. I've tried ssshhhing but just can't produce the volume or length of time needed but you may find if you ssshhh and pat your lo when bf then continue doing this as your lay her down and when she is lying down she may stay asleep.

Keep your chin up and as my mum says make sure you are eating and drinking properly - you are eating for two!

Hayles, hang in there. I am usually a bubbly person too, but this year has been the most draining and difficult year ever. my dh says he just want to see me happy again. I know I'll get there eventually. It's hard to be so bubbly when you are so tired, but it does improve.

Don't let anyone shame you, or make you feel like a bad mum. They haven't walked in your shoes and have no right to comment.

thank you everyone im quickly feeling better and remembering im actually quite happy with the way things are for now - loving the co-sleeping, happily surfing away on my laptop when shes asleep on me in the day and thanks for the point about her not actually taking much milk when comfort sucking - i think thats right! I actually have an 8yo ds who was breastfed with no sleeping probs that i remember til about 4-6 months and he was the same (quite chunky) for a few months or so in his first year.

in fact now im feeling a bit better i am thanking the heavens above that despite where and how she sleeps she does actually sleep in the night for 2-3 hours a time.

Thanks everybody just what i needed to hear! you're great

Have now been up for an hour with my teething-but-cheerful DS...and i have a really painful lump in my right breast

i'm going to ask Father Xmas for some sleep this year. I hope i get it.

hello to everyone.hayles hope youre feeling better.i was unable to breastfeed so no help but my first 2 babies were skinny little things and 3rd is a chubby man!with the first 2 i got accused of not feeding them with 3rd i am accused of feeding him to much.so you cant win!

Good to hear your feeling more positive now hayles.

After our terrible day for naps we had a much better night. Perhaps my lo is the exception that proves the rule about good daytime sleep meaning good night time sleep. He had a 4 hour stretch then 2 hour stretches. Does not sound fantastic but certainly is good for us. My theory is that I fed him to keep him calm and happy rather than using my different techniques to get him to sleep so he was not as hungry. The only problem though was that although my lo slept I had real problems sleeping. I'm going to have to review the chapter in the book bout that one!

4am again!!!!! DS slept in 2-3hrs bursts since 6.30pm, which better than last few days.

He keeps having this 'interval' every morning. Is rolling round on his playmat, laughing and farting (so it's impossible to be annoyed really!)

In an hour, he'll come back to bed until about 8am.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've been trying to use the removal technique from NCSS with a dummy. When DD just sleeps with the dummy she wakes up twice a night, when we do the removal it's every hour! I know this is what we have to expect to some extent but has anyone tried it and if so how long did it take? Coming up to 8 months of broken nights now and am nearly at car crashing point!

(BTW very reassured that so many of you are trying this. I'm lookin forward to finding a way that doesn't leave DD2 howling like i did with DD1-never again!).

hi all a few better days here, think it was Friday night she went down at 8pm until 5am then boob and back to sleep until 7.30am which was good. Last night was 2 wakenings I think, teeth number 5 and 6 at the top have erupted and 7 and 8 at the bottom look imminent. DD1 seems to have settled down a bit as well and is going to bed at 8.30pm without a fuss, fingers crossed.

Downside is because she is feeding less my periods have returned still I would rather have periods and sleep than no periods and no sleep.

hello and i extend a hug across the oceans from kuala lumpur!! i am still having crap nights but i am slowly getting used to the sleep deprivation now... don't we all get that disapproving look when we say that lo doesn't sleep well.... just as annoying is the unhelpful comments like 'you are spoiling them, you should just leave them to cry!' i cannot possibly walk away and let her feel she is being abandoned! but the prospect of many more nights like this does get me really down... it helps to know i am not alone.

mum2alice, i try not to use the dummy, but i applied the same pulling off principle to picking her up and putting her down. the moment she is relaxed i put her down and pat her, if she fusses i pick her up again, and keep repeating that until she stops fussing when she is down. it usually takes four to five attempts, sometimes only once if i am lucky. still experimenting so i can't comment on the effectiveness yet!

hayles, i too was obseesed with dd's weight, so worried she will get overweight esp when she went on to formula. but once they get really active with learning to crawl and roll over etc they will burn a lot of fat and start to slim down. as you are breastfeeding, i agree w everyone else who has commented - the combination of richer foremilk and watery hindmilk ensures that their drink is always balanced - no worries and enjoy her chubby yummy cheeks!!

oh and one more thing on weight: my best friend has one of those lucky babes who slept for 8 hour stretches pretty much from birth, so was obviously not drinking a lot... she also measures out her ebm in a bottle and so we know she is drinking slightly less than the recommended amount. and yet her weight was above the top percentile on the charts.. so go figure, huh!

3am interval again...DS is rolling round babbling and smiling. I WANT TO SLEEP! I think once he's in bed tonight (7pm) i'll have something to eat and a shower and go to bed too to try and catch up a bit.

I think i need to revise the book a bit. Naps going ok. I'm starting to think co-sleeping (which we don't do all night) is making him more wakeful. I think he stirs and sees us and wants to play.

Thanks for the tip sashasmama. I did that to cut out her night feeds and it worked like a dream. Didn't think to apply it to this!

With regard to the weight/milk thing, I think that some breast milk may just be richer and more creamy (higher in calories?) than others. It does adapt amazingly to any situation. If, for example you weren't feeding at night it maybe becomes richer for the feeds you give in the day? I never express very much and my DD still feeds for 7-8 mins at a go, but goes for 3-4 hours between feeds. Just a thought!

Welcome mum2alice. Hope the 'dummy removal' is going better. How old is your lo?

We have had some success although I do think it is partly to do with him maturing and changing. He seems to go through monthly phases and as we are now approaching the 5 month mark I hope this new phase continues and improves!

My lo has always had terrible problems getting to sleep but yesterday he fell asleep on his grandmas lap - just like that! Absolutely amazing. Then last night I stroked his head and shhhed him and he fell asleep. This has worked three times now. From a child who has needed to be rocked, the hoover on, and a vibrating chair to get to sleep (all at the same time) to this is sooooo exciting. I'm trying not to get too hopeful but fingerscrossed. Last night he slept for two three hour stretches followed by two one hour stretch. Not fantastic but a huge improvement on hourly wake ups with me not knowing if I am awake / asleep, holding my lo / have put him down.

Hope everyone else managed to get some sleep

Hi lori21. I'm just seeing how things go at the moment. lo is 7 months old now, but there was a marked improvement at around 5 months I must say! She woke up every 1 1/2 hours last night!! night before only once at 4ish and quickly settled. There is no rhyme or reason, but on Friday I'm going for the pick up put down without dummy, so wish me luck!

Oh, and by the way, well done on your breakthrough. You really feel on top of the world when it happens! Good luck for tonight!

Hi all - just a quick post as we're off for a long walk. I had a few internet problems so no posting lately.

• Good news to report though ((((drum roll)))) DS has slept for the past 4 nights 9pm - 7am!!!!

We've been enforcing naps with military precision and (luckily) he seems to be finally in a routine of napping 10.30 - 12 then 2.30 - 3. Still a bugger to get him to sleep at night but I'm not bf at all now & we're giving him a late supper (as he won't drink much milk) to keep his tummy full for bed (I 'm now convinced that hunger was a factor for him) haven't had time to catch up properly but good to see some more encouraging progress. take care all x

well done iris66, well done lori21!

i know how you feel, lori. we went thru some really horrible times for the first 4 months or so trying to get lo to sleep, rocking and rocking while she screamed and screamed.

then one day i decided, right, i am too knackered to rock, so i pinned her down on my lap, ignored her yelling and just jiggled and shushed her until she fell asleep. then as if by magic she decided that she preferred that method and it was really easy to get her to sleep from then on. i was on top of the world.

BUT! my problem after that is not so much of getting her to fall sleep, but her constant awakenings!! how to stop her from waking up?? every hour or so?? so here i am in this thread with the rest of you tired mummies... (weak smile...) still waiting for the next breakthru..

SANTA, ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS A NIGHT OF UNBROKEN SLEEP!

IRIS66, how long did the process take? i am encouraged by your success, as i am sure everyone else is!