the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

[WeesaD]

Please can someone tell me what the NCSS is about? The key points?

[nappyaddict]

bump

[BikeBug]

aha, I have found it...
DWB, come over to the new thread...

[DetentionGrrrl]

There's already a new thread! Join me in it!

[danceswithbaby]

Hey Bikebug! I thought I was going to be left all on my own, talking to myself! Perhaps you're right about starting another thread, especially now that Iris has gone off with Mr Sand Man . What shall we call it?

How did you get your ds into a cot? Is he sleeping for longer stretches now, and did it happen immediately? I tried leaving dd in bed on her own and went into the spare room, but she kept on reaching out for me and waking crying when she couldn't find me. Then when I went back into bed with her she spent the next two nights wrapped around my arm like a koala bear, so I couldn't get away.

I couldn't even contemplate witholding b/f at night. You said that your ds isn't that interested in solids (like my dd - except for paper or cardboard. She'll eat loads of that if I take my eye off her! She actually pooed a word the other day). How is that going now? Is he taking enough not to be hungry in the night?

Did you ever go to the sleep clinic that was recommended to you?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm obviously feeling lonely! Things are much the same here except for the fact naps have gone a bit to pieces lately and we've had two or three sleep stretches of 3hrs over the last couple of days. It's the first time I've slept longer than two hours at a stretch in months (whoopee, a whole 3 hours. I'm a new woman).

[BikeBug]

it has gone very quiet hasn't it? Anyone want to start a new thread? I think this one is so huge it's putting people off. We're OK btw - moving DS to his own cot and stopping feeding him at night means I'm only up a couple of times, but it's for an hour or more and there is lots of crying (and cuddles), as opposed to up 5-6 times, but only for 10 minutes each, and virtually no crying but lots of tummy ache from too much milk...

[danceswithbaby]

Hi all, I'm back. Out of sheer curiosity I've been reading a book about an alternative method of getting my baby to sleep better. At times I almost can't believe what I'm reading and am quite horrified. Ms Pantley, even if your method is complete bollocks, I love you.

I'm now going to re-read NCSS and start all over again.

Sashamama, how's it going? 9 months seems a bit young for tantrums but I don't really know. You're sure she's not in pain (I'm sure you've thought of that), but my DD used to wake screaming when she was younger and it was definitely reflux pain. I can't think of anything else that might help. I REALLY don't envy that flight you're going to be taking. Hopefully it won't be as bad as you're thinking.

How's everyone else doing? It seems to have gone quiet lately.

[PrettyCandlesAndTinselToo]

Can this be done with an 8wo baby? Ds2 is gettting harder and harder to settle, and is also hooked on the dummy, which s becoming a bit of a mare!

[DetentionGrrrl]

I'm coming to the conclusion that Pantley can stick her book up her bum. Or maybe i'm not trying hard enough.

[sashasmama]

hi everyone, me again. dd is now 9 months and has learnt how to throw tantrums and REALLY SCREAM! is this normal for this age?? she used to wake up crying, i'll pick her up and she'll quieten and go back to sleep. now she wakes up angry and screaming and it takes longer to settle her. she has already cut her bottom teeth... and she is definitely not hungry at night as i tried to offer her milk again (i had been witholding it) and she doesn't even want it. so i am at the point of no return... i cannot even opt for a quieter life by offering milk! arrrgh... it's now every other hour, waking up yelling...

and to make life even more scary we will be taking a very long flight back to Uk in two weeks... and after about 16 hours of flying and transit, we still have to get into in law's car for a two hour drive, and when she is tired she hates the car seat... i cannot sleep thinking about the stress i will have to go thru (in what little time i actually have to sleep!! and what the time difference wil do to her sleep does not even bear thinkng about... still debating whether or not to drug her for the journey,,, have met mums who swore by its effectiveness, and some mums who said their babies eitehr became hyper or cried all the way... so it's a gamble.

i am so not looking forwad to this christmas, unfortunately...

[BikeBug]

Tiredandgrumpy - I waas afraid that was what sleep clinic would be like, and I don't want to go down the cc/cio route (well, i wouldn't be on this thread if I did...). Interesting about the feeding up and the tooth though, DS is still a gummy monster at 9 months, and really not interested in solid food - I'm lucky to get half a pot of fruit or yougurt into him, and half a dozen spoonfulls of anything more adventurous. He likes rice cakes, but they have all the filling satiating properties of thin air!

Sweetkitty, I agree that you can just wean from the boob at nighttime - it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It has been noisy for us though, but DS is a very... vocal... baby. And I haven't actually managed it yet - he cries and I feed him eventually as I'm sure he is hungry. Maybe tonight (seeing as DH doesn't have to go to work tomorrow). It must be very difficult for you with two though - I can see why you'd feed at night for a quiet life. Do you co-sleep? (sorry if you've said - this thread is too huge to find out!). DH and I left DS on our bed last night and decamped to the spare room - he missed his 11pm waking and stayed asleep until 1.30, so I think we may have to stop co-sleeping as well.

[tiredandgrumpy]

Bikebug I went to a sleep clinic for what sounds to be a very similar problem - dd would not settle at night. The clinic's main piece of advice was to let her cry it out as she simply had to learn to settle herself. I didn't like that approach, but did take on board other snippets which I learned from other mums at the clinic. The main one which seems to be working for me is to make sure I feed her up. Until recently (she's 8 months) I hadn't been pushing weaning too hard. Since she's been getting more solids during the day she is a happier child at night. The hv told us to ensure they have all the main food groups at lunch and tea (esp important to include protein here).

We're seeing improvements, although I think the single biggest reason is that she has finally cut tooth no 1 and I think she must have been suffering for some time as her mood is soooo much better.

Good luck with it all.

[kiskidee]

sweetkitty, have you tried unlatching her when she is v. drowsy? it worked for me. at first they half wake up and fuss but put her on again and keep trying. it works usually with a bit of shushing and vigorous rocking for a few secs. then you do it over again with her a bit more awake. soon, you can unlatch with her awake but drowsy and put down in the cot awake. i would sometimes have to pick up and soothe but again, can go down awake.

i am too lazy to do anything else and just co-sleep past my bedtime.

no, night weaning does not mean giving up bf.

[sweetkitty]

hi all spooky I was thinking about night weaning from the boob too, can you just do night weaning or does it have to be total boob weaning? I am just worried about all the noise waking DD1 up as well

Tonight was a nightmare she had a good 1 1/2's nap today (up at 8am) then we started our usual bedtime routine last boob at 8ish and she just wouldn't settle, eventually DP came up and cuddled her to sleep without me, this is a new thing she seems to be settled better for DP on his chest. With me she pulls at my top and gets angry if theres no boob! She's been settling during the day with DP too as I have been working Saturdays too.

She eventually went to sleep at 9.50pm tonight think I will have to read the book again too............

[BikeBug]

Hi again all,
I've just spoken to my mum and she says I didn't sleep through until I was 5 and my brother was 3, and 'things got better once you could read'!!! Anyone think there is a genetic link with not sleeping???
I might have to start doing the NCSS properly soon, sleep logs and all. So far I've read the book, thought 'yep, we're doing loads of this already' and taken on board the bit about predictable bedtime routines and the bit about prioritising naps. Both those have really helped, DS now goes to sleep brilliantly, but we're still nowhere nowhere nowhere on the self settling at night. We've just been referred to sleep clinic by my GP, has anyone else been to one? Any insider info very welcome...
Also, has anyone else been through night weaning from the boob? It seems to be a choice at the moment between waking 3 times to feed him, or waking once but being up for an hour and a half while he cries and eventually I give in and feed him anyway! There has to be a better way.
Thanks for the positivity Iris - it helps

[chIRIStmasfairybigpants]

daisymum - sorry you're not feeling so good but IMVHO it's unlikely to be bf that's doing it. It's easy to forget (over time)that you still need extra support when you are bf - are you eating/drinking/resting enough? (it really does make a difference )
DS has loads of food intolerances and allergies so my diet was severely restricted whilst I bf. Consequently, the psychological impact of being free to eat what I like again has been huge (he's 10.5 mths). That said, whilst I was weaning him off bf (over 6 weeks or so)I felt like I had constant PMT however I was fine when he was exclusively bf (maybe I'm just sensitive to hormone changes ). HTH

[daisymum]

Christmasfairy i see in an earlier message you said your hormones are happier now you've stopped bf - I'm feeling all over the place with tons of ailments and bf dd - she is 3 months old. sorry if you've said this earlier but what were your symptoms and do you really feel physically better now?

[chIRIStmasfairybigpants]

it's a book by Elizabeth Pantley, the basic tenet of which is to get you child to sleep without you happily. ie without them having to cry themselves to sleep. it's available in most book shops. HTH

[lucy261101]

I see from reading back that a few people have dismissed the controlled crying, i must admit it work really well for me and ds and he was sleeping 7-7 from about 6/7 months when i went back to work, i'm sure his waking is todo with new baby and moving house, dh being away and au pair moving in. Had to take him to Drs again today as he had a rash, turned out it was nothing but hes had an ear infection, swollen toncils, then pick up a tummy bug and now has a virus, so that may be a contributing factor also. He's fast asleep now, just have to see how long it lasts.

[lucy261101]

what is this no cry sleep solution, were can I get it, as ive never heard of it

[chIRIStmasfairybigpants]

Bumping for you as I'm afraid I've forgotten what I used to do with my older one. There are others around who may be able to offer some advice.
The No Cry Sleep Solution does have a section on helping toddlers/older children which may help.

[lucy261101]

I have a 20mth old and an 11 week old, my problem is that the 20mth old has now started waking in the nite, sometimes 3 or 4 times and takes ages to go back to sleep, the other day he got up at 4 am and didnt go back to sleep. My issue is that this has started suddenly, he's been sleeping 7-7 since about 7 months. Any suggestions as i'm really struggling.

[chIRIStmasfairybigpants]

Hi everyone - just quickie to share hopeful news that NCSS does work and to keep the thread positive.

Hideous nights were a result of tooth No.7 (thankful that's all it was!)Our improvements seem to be holding and DS now only seems to wake 10.30/11ish for 5 mins or so for a gulp of water, sometimes a cuddle too then back to sleep until 6ish. Not bf seems to have helped enormously as I think that was his strongest sleep cue (though I'm sad I had to stop, my hormones seem more settled so I'm feeling remarkably bouncy as a result!)

We've been sticking quite rigidly to a routine leading up to naps/bedtime and I think that has helped too (milk, music on, book, cuddle, sleep). My next challenge is to get him to sleep in his cot during the day (he currently gets rocked in his pram)so I can put him in it awake Must get the book out again for tips...

Bikebug - I wish I'd stopped bf at night and stuck to day feeding rather than doing it the other way around. I found it very emotional when I finally stopped but, as it was a very gradual process, I think it helped us both get used to it.

Danceswithbaby - I thought we were getting nowhere too.. don't give up! Reviewing what you're doing and what sleep associations your LO has really does help.

Anyway, must dash - due to be visiting a friend across the road... take care all

[DetentionGrrrl]

Up 3 times last night, but thankfully no hour of play time at 3am. I need to have another look at the book i think, but it's finding the time / inclination. Am thinking about withdrawing or limiting the boob at night now- DS is coming upto 22wks and eating solids too. Don't know if i feel brave enough though!

[BikeBug]

hello all, sorry haven't been around for a bit - we were having some awful nights (daytime napping is still good though). I got a load of sympathy from people at a meal I went to, and it just made me feel terrible - I was coping quite well until half a dozen people told me my life must be utterly awful and they were very sorry for me (and their babies of course slept perfectly...)

Anyway, I've decided to try night weaning the smallest one. I get the feeling I'm making everything worse by feeding him so much at night - he feeds, swallows air, gets trapped wind and wakes in pain wanting to feed to move the wind along, and so the cycle goes on.

So two nights ago I decided to withold the boob. Not all night (I am very soft), just between about 11 and 4. He woke up at about 2.30 in search of milk, and went utterly bonkers when I offered him water instead (slurp, slurp.... WHAT IS THIS!!!??? WHAAAAAA!!). After an hour of intermittent crying and comforting I gave in and fed him anyway. Last night it was a bit better - he didn't wake up until after 3am, and after 45 minutes of negotiation (he chattered away but didn't cry at all) he went back to sleep with no milk. I didn't feed him until 5am! I'm sticking with this plan for the time being.

He's napping now, so I have a rare 10 mins on mumsnet, am off to catch up with the posts. Here's to a very sleepy christmas.