the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

Well we seem to have had an improvement in this house down at 7.45pm last night, up 11.45 for a feed, then again at 3am then at 7am. This isn't that bad not that wonderful but not bad. At least I am getting some of the evening back to myself. Am trying the pull off technique don't know how far we are getting with it though. Looks like we will have to go cold turkey as first thought. Only shhing at night no BFs.

hayles - I agree with what others have at 7 weeks they are still far too young to be in any kind of sleep routine (unless you are very lucky) someone said to me that human babies should be incubated another 3 months at least but their heads get too big for delivery so in effect they shouldn't be born for 3 borns so need to feel connected to their mothers even more if that makes any kind of sense. I'm rubbish at routine and just went with the flow at this age feeding as she needed it. With the growth spurts they certainly need it.

bikebug - your poor DS hope he is none the worse for his fall, they are like slippery little eels at this stage.

moljam - still keeping everything crossed for you as well

DG - even 3 hours uninterrupted sleep is a godsend I agree

Better go DD1 is falling asleep on the sofa and it's too close to dinner time talk about from one extreme to the other!

Morning all
Not sure quite what's going on here but DS is taking longer and longer to settle at night - Anyone else finding this?
Daytime naps seem better(averaging 2 naps totalling 2.5 hours now) but no matter how early I get him up he's taking about 2 hours to get down. We kept him up until 8 last night as he wasn't showing any sleepy signs and it was nearly 10 before he went off, then up again at 12, 3 & 6. Think I may have to review the bedtime routine again (this is getting sooo tedious)

Morning!

Well, he woke 3 times last night (previously was 5) The trick seems to be good naps in the day, and co sleeping after 2am. And we're loving the co sleeping to honest!

Actually had good nights sleep again. Hope everyone else did too.

Lori21, I think you should write a book your advice to help with sleep was so clear and wise! Once you're getting more sleep yourself of course Thankyou!
I've been having yet another testing week, DD has been unwell vomiting / fever / cold / teething so any routine is TOTALLY out the window. I'm with you Iris tedious (but with added expletives!)
Glad some of the old timers seem to have disappeared from this thread which maybe means they're having blissful 8 hour sleeps....there is hope! Hi to all the new mummies, hope you're not on this thread as long as me! (although the support is wonderful I want to be posting about getting a bit pissed and having lie ins!!!!!)

Hi all,

I haven't posted for a while, not because I've been getting 8hrs sleep unfortunately, but because there's nothing new to say. Routine is good, naps have been really good for weeks now (at least 2.5 hours a day) and still every single night is just as shite at the one before it. I'm still chasing that elusive 3 hour stretch of sleep and it shows no sign of coming.

I don't want to wean DD off the breast as her main source of nutrition until a year and CC in any form isn't an option, so I've just been trying to go with the flow and not think about it too much. It's like if I don't analyse things they don't seem so bad.

Still, it's nice to read about everyone else's progress , (or lack of ). Sorry to hear about those poorly babes. DD had her first cold a couple of weeks ago. Talk about a shock to the system!

Yes Iris, DD has suddenly started to take longer to get down at night. She has always gone to sleep really quickly even after night wakings, never more than 10 minutes. Suddenly she seems to be finding it harder and taking much longer. I'm beginning to wonder if she's sleeping too much during the day....

hi all,

given up already kind of - gonna keep it up but not so full on!

sweetkitty - not sure if my intentions have been misunderstood. i am not particularly bothered about a set routine as such - the only problem is, is that she only sleeps on me. she falls asleep while bf and pretty much always wakes when i try to go anywhere near a moses basket. this means nights are cosleeping and in the days she is permanently attached to me either feeding or sleeping - she literally hardly leaves me which of course i dont actually mind but i have ds as well and never get any time with him or anything done! i love the cosleeping but only have a double bed and dh is pretty big and heavy sleeper so hes not thrilled about being on the sofa every night. dd sleeps pretty much like your last posting. occasionally i get a 4 hour stretch but mostly between 2-3 so i guess im lucky in that sense its just hard that its always either on me or next to me.

so anyway gonna try and see if i can gently reduce the amount of times she falls asleep while feeding if shes happy to but its been swings and roundabouts so far. sometimes shes happy to give it up and fall asleep herself (on me of course) but others she gets really grumpy unless she gets it and i know its not for an actual feed its just for 'nuzzling' as my dh calls it as in sucking for comfort.

totally lost my way i think as im not sure i have explained what the real problem is.

for all those with colds - saline drops is totally recommended by all the mums at school but havent used myself - they swear by them for clearing the nasal passage and cost about £2. isnt it funny how we all get colds about the same time as the central heating going on - other siggestions - a bowl of water on or under the radiator to humidify the room.

better go before this gets too much longer. she is asleep (on me) so taking her to bed with me.

night night and hope y'all get SOME sleep.

hayley

yes, harvey Karp is for babies under 4 months.

Hayley, if you were to swaddle your baby, it will help with sleeping and putting down in the moses basket/cot while asleep. you could get a special made swaddling blanket or learn to swaddle with an ordinary blanket.

harvey karp book has the how to swaddle technique and explains why it works. among other things. i am not at home at the moment but if anyone is interested, i can post a link later on swaddling and how to swaddle effectively.

Damn bastard teething....

Hayley, your dd sounds exactly like mine was (and still is up to a point, but it does get better). There were days when I didn't put her down for 16 hours at a time, not even to go to the loo. Thank goodness I didn't have another child to cope with. I really feel for you.

I stopped wasting time and angst trying to put her down in the end. I sold the pram and bought a sling, sold the crib and bought a king-size bed and gave up all thought of returning to work. Easy for me, with her being the only one.

I've only recently been able to get her to nap in the bed on her own but it's taken nine months to get there. I feed her down to sleep and when she's out I put a penguin with a warm pad in it's tummy in my place and sneak away.

Have you read Dr Sears' 'The Fussy Baby Book?' It pretty much saved my sanity in those early weeks.

danceswithbaby - funny you should say that - i have been thinking about the bigger bed or a single in her room for us as dh not so keen on her co-sleeping. ive even thought about bypassing the cot and not buying one altogether. i have a baby carrier (but not a sling one) which i use to get the odd thing done every now and then and shes fine in it. the worst is that ive now got a laptop set up on a little stool/side table so i can surf from the sofa while she sleeps on me - doing this now. i too am trying to think up ways (need the money) that i can avoid going back to work so i can be a stop at home mom till her school years. i'll look up the book u mentioned. why is it that since ive had dd (which is no.2) i am all about babies - im into everything - cloth nappy experimenting, reading child development and baby books - all i talk is babies???? i just love it, but then i always wanted to work with children etc. good luck with urs, how old now???

somethingsdrooling - i bought the Harvey Karp book today that you mentioned after looking it up on amazon - it totally makes sense (so far as havent read it all yet). i did try swaddling but perhaps i wasnt doing it right although she always seemed to struggle to get her hands out. i have to say the one thing that i will definately always do in the first 3/4 months is pick her up if shes crying. i had tried putting her down and giving her a few minutes of crying while i try to calm her but always ended up picking her up again.

think ill keep things as they for now another month or so's not gonna make a difference plus i have the laptop lol. so maybe when shes 3/4 months ill tackle getting her 'off' me. what do you all think or is it better to get her 'sorted' now????

Hayles, I have my laptop on the sofa too, for when dd is napping! She's only just turned 9 months. Now I've got her napping on her own for an hour or more, I actually miss having that time on the sofa with her, catching up on my reading or surfing the internet. Sometimes I choose to let her nap on me anyway!

Personally, I wouldn't dream of trying to 'sort' your dd just yet. I'm a great believer in the 4th trimester. I think they need that time being close to mum and hearing her heart etc, to adjust to being 'outside'. It's only natural after the environment they have been used to. The birth process is such a shock to them and then we expect them to separate from us immediately and sleep independently.

The swaddling may help you a bit, although my dd wouldn't tolerate it after the first three weeks. The NCSS has had some effect, mainly the 'pantley pull-off' has helped her to sleep without b/f sometimes. The introduction of 'loveys' and stuff has had no success whatsoever and I can't even imagine trying to move her out of our bed. I hope your dd doesn't turn out to be quite so 'fussy' as mine!

Good to hear all your news. It is so reassuring to realise that I am not the only one who is struggling and that there are lots of people out there who don't believe in letting their lo cry. My little boy is such a happy, contented, wonderful baby and I am sure that it is because he was never left to cry, even if you do have to put the effort in!

Thanks momamama for your kind words - I (like you hayles) love reading about babies and trying to do the 'right' thing. My career is with children so being at home with my lo is just like my job but 100 times better!!

My lo is what kellymom.com call a distractable baby! Far too busy to fall asleep whilst bf in fact far too busy to fall asleep.

Oh I hear him calling - post more later!

I meant - too busy to bf during the day at all! But the sleeping bit is true too!

I was thinking about your childminders success sashasmama and was wondering if there are noises that your lo can hear when at the childminder that are reassuring. I read somewhere about having a radio playing outside the door or using a white noise tape.

My lo had a better nights sleep last night - but again it was when we did not do the usual routine and he went to bed late. My theory is that the routine is so good at getting him to sleep that he does not 'cluster feed' in the evening so does not have the reserves to keep him going through the night. What the answer is I don't know.

I've tried to keep him up a bit later than usual and have had to feed him quite a lot so hopefully that will do the trick!

Sleepy thoughts to you all....

hello again everyone

well thursday night was definitely a fluke as the past three nights have been hell again! ...

I have decided to move on from giving her water to nothing at all... just picking her up if she is really unhappy, otherwise to try to pat her back and not pick up... it's really hard... my dh is really no help as he just makes her cry more (because he has never gone to her at night before, so she only associates daddy with playing) and he is not entirely convinced about what i am doing, but desperately needs the sleep as he is going thru a stressful time at work, so he has been sleeping in the other room until i can sort dd's sleep out... it's not like i get to have a lie in in the day tho, as i too have a full time job... but i guess men are just not as good as us with coping with sleep deprivation. i felt really unsure and desperate these last few nights, one part of me says, i have come too far to turn back now, and besides, what do i turn back to? another part of me says maybe i should just give up and keep feeding her...

it seems the more desperate i get the worse she becomes... last night she she cried and cried in my arms, and then woke up fifteen minutes after she fell asleep, and did that three times... each time i was about to doze off.. waaaaaahhhh! i felt like wailiing myself as i hauled my sorry arse out of bed for the umpteenth time!! now am back at work and feeling like a zombie!

moljam, thanks for your tips... but with naps, she falls alseep fine, it's just that she wakes up at exactly 30 mins, then there is onyl a 50-50 chance she'll go back to sleep... but she does not do this at the childminder's ever.. she will stay asleep for at least an hour or more... how can one's internal body clock be so damned finetuned?? any other working mum has a full time childminder and similar probs?

everyone, i have taken to reading this thread with my morning coffee at work now... even tho i can't contribute much it makes me feel encouraged.

so, positive energy vibes to all!!

hello again everyone

well thursday night was definitely a fluke as the past three nights have been hell again! ...

I have decided to move on from giving her water to nothing at all... just picking her up if she is really unhappy, otherwise to try to pat her back and not pick up... it's really hard... my dh is really no help as he just makes her cry more (because he has never gone to her at night before, so she only associates daddy with playing) and he is not entirely convinced about what i am doing, but desperately needs the sleep as he is going thru a stressful time at work, so he has been sleeping in the other room until i can sort dd's sleep out... it's not like i get to have a lie in in the day tho, as i too have a full time job... but i guess men are just not as good as us with coping with sleep deprivation. i felt really unsure and desperate these last few nights, one part of me says, i have come too far to turn back now, and besides, what do i turn back to? another part of me says maybe i should just give up and keep feeding her...

it seems the more desperate i get the worse she becomes... last night she she cried and cried in my arms, and then woke up fifteen minutes after she fell asleep, and did that three times... each time i was about to doze off.. waaaaaahhhh! i felt like wailiing myself as i hauled my sorry arse out of bed for the umpteenth time!! now am back at work and feeling like a zombie!

moljam, thanks for your tips... but with naps, she falls alseep fine, it's just that she wakes up at exactly 30 mins, then there is onyl a 50-50 chance she'll go back to sleep... but she does not do this at the childminder's ever.. she will stay asleep for at least an hour or more... how can one's internal body clock be so damned finetuned?? any other working mum has a full time childminder and similar probs?

everyone, i have taken to reading this thread with my morning coffee at work now... even tho i can't contribute much it makes me feel encouraged.

so, positive energy vibes to all!!

oops sorry i ended up posting the same thing twice... sleep deprivation has killed off some of my motor skills!!

sashamama,how old is she?id be tempted to go back to feeding her.
sorry ive not posted for a couple of days.ive been argueing with dh and we may be moving!still cornwall but launceston.
anyway were on log day again today!and its still going great!i think weve done it(ssshh dont tell my ds!).hes been going to bed awake(in cot)at 7pm,waking once,or twice.sip of water and back to sleep!!!!!!till 5 or 6am!then 1 x 2 hour nap in morning and half hour-hour in afternoon!this has been for a week!yipppee!so 30 days of ncss and hes sleeping!i cant wait to compare logs,huge diference.just hope it continues!if it does can i still post?i love the support from this thread!

way to go moljam!!! what worked best for you???

Moljam

I'm fairly sure DS slept without waking between 10.30-3.30 last night...but i was (and am) so tired, i may well have got up and not remembered!

well done dg!lol at maybe getting up?!
im not sure whats worked!maybe the whole routine thing?also we gave up cosleeping just to see what happened,as suggested in book,some babies dont suit it,sadly my ds slept alone!so were using travel cot.do we get a normal one?i might just put him on his cot matress on floor.miss him.i think also learning about importance of naps,before reading book i thought if he didnt have so long at- night*ap+ ti
me hed sleep better at night.*9-+sorry baby typing!+with spoon covered in baby rice!lol!+you watch now he wont sleep more than an hour tonight

Guys, I'm still following the NCSS but it seems to me that the better my dd naps during the day the worse she sleeps at night.

Naps are now really good. This is her second nap today, I put her to bed 1.25 hours ago and haven't been up to her yet. She'll have another 30 min nap about 4-4.30pm. She's been doing this regulary now for about 3-4 weeks and it's a real breakthrough.

The trouble is that nights have been getting progressively worse and worse. She's gone from waking every 2 hours and feeding back down in 5-10 mins, to waking every 30 mins to an hour and taking the same amount of time again to get back to sleep.

Any thoughts anyone? I'll clutch at any straw?!

How old is baby? Could it be a growth spurt / teething etc?

You have sympathies though- mine was waking every hour (or less) It's a killer.

She's only just 9 months. I don't think it's teething, I can't see any bumps on her gums and she isn't drooling excessively. She doesn't really seem herself, but she doesn't seem ill either. How did you get yours to sleep longer?

Weaning and naps. He would refuse to sleep all day, be so exhausted he'd go to bed by 6pm and then wake all night. Now he sleeps on me twice a day usually (goes mad if i try to put him down, so stopped trying)and goes to bed 7pm. And he's feeding less frantically now he's being weaned.
Our routine is bath, book, boob!

Teething troubles now though

hi all sorry haven't posted all weekend well have had some horrendous nights (after me saying things were looking up) she's back to waking every hour after shes put to bed, patting her back is working to get her back about 50% of the time, rest of the time it's pull off boob. Friday it got sp bad she was wide awake playing in her cot so I brought her downstairs and she crawled about the floor until 11pm. Saturday and Sunday were bad too, last night she was up 5 times before 11pm, went back to sleep at gome 12 but that was her until 6 this morning.

Today she isn't well as she is very clingy and burning up she keeps falling asleep on me but when I put her down she wakes up, I need to put her down to take DD1 to the toilet.

hayles - I have a bedside cot, google Cosatto bedside cot, it is brilliant as it is like a regular cot but one side folds under it then you push it up against your bed so it becomes an extension of your bed, DD2 sleeps in ther so it gives us our bed and it's also like cosleeping as she is snuggled up next to me. I totally understand your frustrations it's not easy when they just want to lie on you or feed and you have another one to look after too.

Sorry just a bit sleep deprived and down today better get back to it both of them are crying noe