the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

[BikeBug]

Hi, hope you don't mind me crashing in, I'm just beginning to follow the ncss book too. Ds is 6 and a half months and wakes every 2.5 to 3 hours through the night for feeds / cuddles / rocking. We have been co-sleeping: he sleeps marginally better that way, but I sleep far worse! Trying to get him to love his cot, love his sleep etc but am feeling very pessimistic because I know I was a shocking sleeper and have a vision of it running in families... Anyway, nice to hear of other people making some progress from a similar starting point (not nice that you have non-sleeping type babies, but you know what I mean )

[momomama]

I'm happy to be in the company of other demented mums bedbug! I think you're right iris66, I need to start on the old log thingie as I need some feeling of achievement, even if it is only very very slight.
I'm going to go hardcore and try all advice at once, need a miracle!
DP phoned to say sorry it's just the exHAUSTION THATS GETTING TO HIM!!!!!! I know I'm being irrational but HIS EXHAUSTION! I know noone is getting much sleep but i am definitely getting the least, will he never learn he'll never win that arguement.

[iris66]

momomama - short answer - no - he's a bloke. Ergo he will always be more tired, ill, upset, hungry etc etc than you It's a PITA but in my humble experience, true.

I'm sure he doesn't mean to be annoying though. Blokes really don't deal with disruption at all well & I expect you're doing a very good impression of coping brilliantly so he feels he can have a moan & get a bit of sympathy (because you're clearly coping with it - it's a vicious circle)

Does DD sleep during the day when you're at work? Could you get your nursery/childminder to make a log too then you could mimic one anothers routines so she has set times for sleep?

Bikebug - Hi and welcome to our sleepless throng We're all just supporting each other through the misery of sleeplessness so do join in

DS seems to be happier for having more sleep during the day at least. He had an hour this morning (courtesy of a 1.5 hour walk in the rain to keep him that way) and 3/4 hour this afternoon (attached). I'm making sure he's physically very active for the 1/2 hour or so before sleep too to tire him out (he was chasing after the hoover this morning )

You know, we'll probably look back on this in a few years and say "ooh it wasn't that bad" (Well that's what I'm keeping in mind anyway.
Hope you all have reasonable nights (I would say good but know that's unlikely!!)
x

[iris66]

me and my big mouth
DS went down brilliantly at 7 last night but then was up 9.45 - 10.30, 11.15 - 12.00, 3.15 - 3.30, been awake now since 4.30 when he decided it was playtime v

Hope you guys fared better

[Papillon]

Oh ((((Iris)))) that is yuck! He sounds like a new born!! My ds was abit special last night and quite keen to play. He seemed abit cold last night so put a warmer cover over him.

I must admit if he starts playing and thinking he can chew on my nipples and have cheeky face time. Then I go away and let him have some "reflection time" which seems to usually do the trick, that its night-time - no mucking about, go to sleep. Usually either stay close or bf him again.

He is much more determined than dd was being MALE

[iris66]

Papillon - I pretended to be asleep for ages whilst he was wriggling, kicking & clambering over me shrieking "dadadada".
I tried holding him tightly & tried to bf but gave up at 5.30 & brought him downstairs. He did have 20 mins or so lying on my chest at 6.30 though (not that it was much help to me - I was just dropping off when he wriggled awake again - so consequently feel like death now)
DH has just left for work marvelling on what a wonderful night's sleep he had & how refreshed he's feeling after his early night (slept solidly 9.30 - 7.30 am so of him)
I think I'm going to have to get him to do a stint of resettling after the late feed again (couldn't stand listening to the distress before so gave up on night 3) I really thought we were getting somewhere but this is ridiculous!!! I'm still hoping that it's a minor blip though & may change my mind later in the day when I've woken up a bit [weak smile emoticon]

[Difers]

Hi, My lo is 8 months old, Progress to date:- the night before last he woke 3 times and was awake for 3 hours 10mins (I find the sleep/naps logs very interesting to do) between sleeps. That day he napped for 1hr 20mins.

Yesterday he napped for 2hr 10mins. Last night he woke once and was awake for 1hr 50mins. Much improved but perhaps a one off.

I'm following the strategies of increased nap time and the Pantley gentle removal plan.

Keep up the good work girls!!!!

[BikeBug]

thanks for the welcome to the sleepless throng, and lol at 'bedbug' momomama, I should change to that
Iris - much sympathy for such a bad night - it's not the waking itself, its how utterly long they can stay awake for that grinds you down, it's like sleep is just the furthest thing from their minds at 4 am.... Ds is currently napping: bf, rocking and the lullaby cd finally persuaded him that daytime naps are a possibility. I'm going to have to deal with the fallout from all these props later, but I'm sure the NCSS said do whatever it takes to get daytime naps happening. Here's hoping for sleepy vibes for all of us...

[BikeBug]

Difers, do you have any tips for increasing nap times? ds tends to wake up at 45 minute intervals so we're really struggling - getting him to nap at all without resorting to complete exhaustion is an achievement so far, napping for longer would be just excellent...

[sweetkitty]

Both of mine are asleep right now.

Iris - sorry you had a rough night, it's no joke in the middle of the night. I suppose I'm lucky if T wakes and I get to her quick enough and shove a boob in her mouth she falls over again and she'll feed for about 5 minutes before latching off herself. So annoying as a dummy could do the same job but the girl wants the real thing or nothing.

My night was as follows: feel asleep on the boob at 7.30pm, took her up and she woke so another quick feed, woke at 9pm, 12am, 2am, 4am and 6am I'm so tired today at least it's the weekend I'll probably have an afternoon nap tomorrow leave DP to it.

Welcome all the newbies would say it's lovely to see you all but it's no fun with non sleeping children.

[iris66]

Sweetkitty - I'm so pleased your LOs had a good nap & hope they woke up happy bunnies for you Dom refused to sleep this morning & only had an hour this afternoon (I sooo hope this doesn't indicate another bad night - I feel awful)DH is bathing him as I type.

Bikebug - increasing the nap times is my issue too. DS's morning sleep is in his pram & I've tried gauging when he'll wake & then starting out for a walk at that point to effectively rock him back (difficult if he's in a cot ) but not had consistent success. It may work for you though.

Difers/Sweetkitty - any tips for increasing daytime sleeping?

[momomama]

Oh Iris and sweetkitty, how awful, its actually worse when you think its getting better and then the worst happens. I've photocopied all the log pages and told DP he's to read everything too as i've kind of just went ahead and decided on the plan without consulting him so feel a bit bad now. He's up for helping and my mum is also (she watches DD when I'm at work)so maybe the big changes are ahead.
Daytime naps not good for me either, although bringing DD to bed seems to be the way to get the longest naps out of her, my excuse for napping anyway
I actually let her sleep for an hour between 4-5 and she went down again at 8, took and hour though!

[sweetkitty]

Iris - T got up after 40 mins, A slept for 2 hours! They say you never get two the same and my two are day and night. T did eat all her dinner whilst A eats next to nothing, I keep saying I want one with T's eating and A's sleeping but imagine if I got a no sleeping/no eating one?

So today we have had an hour's nap this morning (oh at Toddlers with 20 screaming kids running around) and 40 mins this afternoon, put her to bed at 8, up 10 mins later (BF back to sleep), up at 9.30pm (BF back to sleep) am now heading off to sleep myself, poor DP he feels so helpless. I even expressed some milk onto a muslin and stuck it in with her.

Think I will be ordering the book this week

[sweetkitty]

Sorry for the newbies that don't know me from the Jan 06 thread, DD1 is A 2.2yo, DD2 is T 8 mo, just incase you thought I had twins.

[nearlythree]

Big fan of this book, I really liked the idea I had aplan to follow and it fits in perfectly with my ideas on not using CC. Hope I won't need it with baby ds though!

[jennster]

Not read the full thread, but read the book when DD was 3-4 months. Was good common sense. Dd now 8 months and has JUST started sleeping 11 hours. Like the book says sleeping through is only counted as 5 or 6 (can't remember) hours. The book got us to only waking once in the night.

[Difers]

Hi,

Yesterday lo napped for 2hrs 15mins. Last night he slept from 9pm to 8pm waking once at 3am for 30mins. This is brilliant in comparsion to the sleepless nights of before.

Bikebug and Iris, Basically he wakes after 45 mins, before I would have got him up now I am feeding him back to sleep which can take 30mins and is very boring when we could be playing etc..but if it means better sleep...!!!! so maybe am just 45min nap but pm have longer nap.

I bet we all laughed when we saw that babies T-shirt "Sleep is for the weak.."

[BikeBug]

Hi all, what do you do when the sleep or nap routines don't work? Do you press on, or give up? I don't know whether I am establishing negative sleep associations (awake associations??)
We just had the worst night: started the bedtime routine (bath, feed, rock, lullaby cd) at 7 pm, still had an awake and, by that time screaming, baby at 11 pm...). I have no idea what was wrong - maybe it's developmental - he's just on the cusp of crawling and can pull himself up to standing, and it's all he wants to do. Better than sleep, obviously! Took him swimming this morning and even with that he still hasn't had any kind of nap, spent his nap routine time (feed, rock, lullaby cd) clawing at my chest with tiny sharp nails and not being sleepy. Dh has taken him out in the pram. Exhausted

[momomama]

Awwww bikebug, you poor soul! That is so disheartening but my advice is press on. My DD has had her worst week yet and has gone from 1hour intervals through Monday night to sleeping for 3 hours on the trot last night. I suppose my incentive is a lack of alternatives, it has got to work.
Also there could have been a teething episodes, the cold, growth spurts etc to content with so don't give up after one bad night. After one particularly evil night a couple of weeks ago I noticed DD had cut two teeth, I felt awful for being so crabbit and pissed off!
Incidently my DD bit my nipple yesterday and drew blood, can only assume thats her feedback on the 'pantley technique' for unlatching so I understand your concern about negative associations.
I am a big fan of sending out DP with DD and praying she has a good sleep in the buggie - good call. You should be in your bed too!

[danceswithbaby]

Hi, hope you don't mind my joining this discussion? My DD is 7.5 months old and her longest streth of night sleep seems to be 2hrs. Night before last she woke every hour from 10pm then half hourly from 3am-6am when I gave up & got up. I read Pantley's book in hope, a few months ago but found it no use at all. My DD bf's until sleepy, pulls off, turns over (we co-sleep)and puts herself to sleep (brilliant). An hour or whatever later she wakes and I watch her try to put herself back to sleep. She tries really hard and very occasionally succeeds but if not I feed her down and off we go again. If her little belly's too full to suckle any more she demands that I walk her down. If I don't respond she gets distressed and getting her back down would take ages, otherwise it never takes too long. It's the frequency of her waking that bothers me. Why does she wake? She naps fine during the day, gets tired and actually demands to nap and goes down easily. The frequency/length of her naps don't affect her night sleep in the slightest. The book only seemed to offer one or two reasons/solutions which don't fit my baby. Maybe I'll get it out & read it again.... Nice to know I'm not the only one who dreads nighttime!

[Difers]

Ha, I spoke too soon Jake had barely an hour of nap today and unusually resisted bedtime aswell! I'll teach me to boastpost!

Monomama - Ouch, I wondered about the Pantley technique with a baby with teeth.

Bikebug - Hope you have a better one tonight!!

[Difers]

Danceswithbaby - A big welcome to the no cry but no sleep either solution club.

[nearlythree]

danceswithbaby, it sounds like your dd has got used to you either bf or walking every time she wakes in the night. My dd2 was similar, I had no problems settling he rin the evening but then she'd wake all through the evening and night. I think Pantley might have worked if I'd stuck to it. I also had some success with PU/PD but dh scuppered that one.

[WriggleJiggle]

Hi, can I gatecrash too? I've got a 5 mth old who goes down perfectly at 8pm, sleeps til 12 or 1am, then refuses to go back into her own cot. Everytime I think she is asleep I move her, but it doesn't work. We end up co-sleeping so I don't get any sleep.

[nearlythree]

How does she go down?