Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Can I join? My nine month old is deep into teething torture with a pinch of separation anxiety.

From zero teeth, to two cutting and two more shifting and starting to show, he's thoroughly grouchy and it's the worst at bedtime. Last night, two hours of sobbing/feeding/crying and fighting, and tonight was rescued by dh putting him in the sling so i could do some work. Somehow he's got him to sleep and in the cot, but I don't know how long it will last. We're knackered, and both working FT.

We're on a few night wakings, and if I don't feed back to sleep quickly then we're in for two hours awake and playing. Joyful at 3am... I don't mind feeding to sleep, and he's too young to night wean entirely, but he does eat well during the day (milk and solids), and he's certainly not short of a lb or two (currently 22lbs).

I'm not sure what I want from writing this down; a reassurance that it's normal enough, that I'm not missing something and that it's not forever? I'm going to try to sleep now, but I'll be back soon...

They didn't for me elph sure i didn't but it's a job for your dh

Can I join too?

My PFB is nearly 9 months, so just a little older than yours Scandi.
Good news: we have "progressed" from five or six wake out a night, to only two or three.
Bad news: it now takes at least an hour (and sometimes two) to resettle him, and our day starts between 5 and 530am.

Embarrassingly I have now paid three different sleep consultants sadly none have helped. Possibly my fault as I can't take any tears, so while I have three shiny sleep plans I have never actually managed to follow through.

Doing the nights alone as DH travels a lot for work and refuses to help anyway because he thinks we should let DS CIO

Spent most of today crying after a particularly bad week so Something Must Be Done. Do you think Ann could be my lucky No 4???

Hoping everyone has a good night tonight.

notvictorymarch sounds pants. maybe Ann could be lucky number 4 because she has a very emotional/wellbeing approach. I am onto week 3 with her and haven't started anything about nights yet, suits me fine She did say there may be crying though. However so far there has been none. Gone from hugging to sleep to falling asleep with me sat in the room but not touching him. I thought he'd sob and scream and vomit (refluxer) . he's got a good set of lungs and bad temper sometimes and he's older and knows what he wants but no tears so far- though we haven't done the nights yet and I'm worried about this part as he often wakes crying and I don't know that he'll calm without the usual routine easily or at all Who did you ask so far though and what kind of thing is in your plans? I can't take tears either...

dirty nappy calling...

Thank you the welcome! Dreaming our DHs may be related. Mine is a tenured academic in an abstract field, so you would think his listening/reading comprehension would be adequate. Yet the number one thing we fight over is his inability to follow simple instructions. I have to repeat everything, check that he understood, and remind him several times or he'll forget to do what he agreed.

I blame his mother. She still treats him like a baby so he gets to continue behaving like one. She actually gave me a talk a few months ago how he is an academic and writing books and must be spared blah blah. I call BS. I was an academic too before I quit for my current job.

I am keeping away from the medical profession as all its members whom I saw in the initial few months gave me the First Time Mother Talk on Babies Cry, Did You Not Know That? Four months later a hospital paediatrician checked his throat and announced it is raw from all the acid that has been coming up so he was put on Zantac. I have not tried with a dietician after that.

peregrine my DH is a GP. I was a paeds physio before I quit in march. still can't follow instructions

Yet we both failed to realise our DT1 had problems til he was 11 months. Mostly as dt2 was so much worse so all focus was on him. He actually didn't sleep. DT1 slept in 90 min to 2 hour blocks so seemed normal. Once dt2 sorted with his reflux settling and his diet dairy free aged 7/8 months, sleeping a bit better by 11 months, we realised dt1 hadn't changed at all. And was still vomiting. So I took him to the gp and asked for ranitidine. Then took him back for domperidone. We were dairy free and it didn't help so assumed he wasn't dairy intolerant but actually it was because he was all 3. The dietician helped us a lot. He made me retry dairy free but with dairy soya and egg all excluded for a month. I thought this was ridiculous torture for me (bf) and was sure he'd be fine but sure enough he reacted to all 3. He's vomited loads but his throat and teeth are fine apparently. I don't know how that can be but I'm pleased Are you in America? and yes, babies cry. And back arch. But there are normal and abnormal levels of this and we were definitely on the abnormal side!! In hindsight it seems obvious but at the time it wasn't at all. I was posting on here asking about both I'm sure. And he could lie on his back fine in the day, lie on his tummy fine, sometimes I'd notice a sudden load of clear fluid come.out of his mouth whixh i know now was refluxing but not all the time and he had both polar opposite symptoms to his also cows milk protein intolerant brother and often seemingly inconsistent symptoms. Hence 15 months before fully diagnosed but if you think your lo has food intolerences I'd get a dietician referral. I've found once you have the first diagnosis they don't fob you off.

i think I've got confused in who I'm answering here, a mixture of not and peregrine !!!

I am.tired. I fucking hate 5:30am. Both my others slept through.

All those other people with non-sleeping babies make me feel a bit more normal...

The other day DH was proudly telling someone how DS slept for 3,5 hours (a momentous achievement here) and they tutted in sympathy: only 3,5 hours, you poor sods!

Reading about your allergy experiences with interest. DS has no symptoms except crappy sleep, but maybe it would be worth cutting out dairy (I'm bf) just to see.

Our local bakery does dairy-free cakes, so I've got a contingency plan in place

I am a broken woman. Yesterday night DH sent me to the guest room to sleep undisturbed for two hours. I woke up, all on my own, after 45 minutes. Gah! My conditioning is complete.

Peregrin I was an insomniac of years standing pre-DS. BFing gave me the ability to sleep on a clothesline, but DS robbed me of the opportunity to do so. I can now rarely sleep past 5am, thanks to DS, and it was ages before I could sleep longer than his accustomed two hour stretches once he did sleep. It gets you from all angles

scandi and Peregrin My DS is lactose-intolerant but we didn't pick it up until he was about 18 months - stool sample by GP confirmed it when nursery expressed concern about his repeatedly loose and frequent nappies. In hindsight, I do think we missed it - while I was still EBFing he was a six-poos-a-day man but I was told by many people that was normal, but I have a feeling now it may have been lactose or CMPI. I'm not convinced it would have made much difference to his sleep, but it can't have been comfortable so maybe it would have done. I'll be keeping an eye out this time with no. 2.

elph I disagree. my dt2 who's CMPI as you know, has constipation as in straining and firm stools he strains to pass and may try all day and finally do the poo later on and poor sleep as his only symptoms. Actually now it's almost more just the sleep when I know he's had dairy. I really think if hv and the lactation consultant I saw knew more about atypical reflux and intolerances sleep would have been way better here. I think my dt the T is so dreadful at bedtime also due to the association with evening/ night and reflux, pain and vomiting.

Thing is, DS has just been going through a bad patch with his lactose intolerance (we re-introduce occasionally to see if he's got over it - erm...he hasn't) and he's still sleeping through and not complaining of any discomfort during the day. Maybe he's just got used to the pain though Like I say, I will be keeping an eye out with DS2 as it may well have been initial discomfort which he got used to which then turned into habitual waking.

Nursery are a bit hit and miss, unfortunately. They'll give him a soya yoghurt instead of a normal one, then say he really enjoyed the cheesy bean bake at lunch

Elph poor you. At least I got my share of sleep before my little torturer arrived. When work didn't interfere I used to be able to put in twelve hours without stirring. Once when visiting my parents they got so worried as the hours ticked away that they sent in my brother with a mirror to check if I am still breathing. True story.

Dreaming one thing that I haven't tried is cutting out soy and eggs at the same time as dairy. What do you eat?! I use eggs in many recipes that call for sour cream or cheese instead etc. DS does not do well with tomatoes so that's another major group of recipes out of the window.

It is worth keeping a careful eye on what is being eaten and trying different things. The random one that took us aged to work out was that dd is terribly intolerant of oats of all things. We only got that one when we ran out of porridge for a couple weeks and she magically got better. Even then I didn't make the connection until we got some more and she got worse again. What kind of person has a flipping porridge intolerance for heavens sake!

Her symptoms are rash on cheeks, explosive pops and the most awful wind and popping stomach. Her poor belly sounds like she has fireworks going off inside. Thankfully the dairy seems to have sorted itself out but last time we gave her oats it was worse then before so not looking great. Still, at least oats are much easier to avoid then dairy.

Dd went to sleep on the floor a foot away from her bedroom door tonight. I had to scope her up and put her to bed :)

Is she staying in her bed through the night now, Hear, or still coming in with you at some point?

I think now it's learnt behaviour too elph . I don't think he has reflux or tummy pain at bedtime but he's learnt to be a royal pain in the are just in case Though tonight he went to bed with me wedged uncomfortably just behind his ajar door, so mostly out of sight. DT2 up about 11 times. sigh. The biggest factor with him going to bed better seems to be a nap of no more than 20 minutes. .. Not what Ann would say, she says he very young to be not napping. He mostly seems fine though where dt1 is beyond past it by 11am most days.

What to.eqt with no dairy egg and soya. It's a short list Meat veg and potatoes! Chicken korma made with coconut milk. spag bol (dt1 also sensitive to too much tomato too so. I feel your pain but he's ok with that, mostly. as he only eats the pasta which I mostly pretend I don't notice. DT2 only eats the mince. They help each other while my blind eye is turned). Erm, dare I say chicken nuggets and waffles!!! I use coconut. milk or cream instead of milk or creme fraiche usually. Used vegan baking recipes. Our dietician said 30% of cmpi babies are also soya intolerant and almost 50% (I think?!) also egg intolerant. my dt1 had a boiled egg yesterday and minging diarrhoea today and wasn't up vomiting/refluxing as he would have been a year ago. At Christmas I last tried DT2 with increasing dairy. I give him the odd bit now but not much but actually did not properly then. didn't notice much but his sleep was terrible. Finally put 2 and 2 together, stopped the fair and he slept through again within 3 or 4 week. Maybe the. For another bash though. Lactose intolerance is more exotic elph dietician told us its quite rare from.birth and in young ones as obviously there's lactose in breastmilk so you can't bf a lactose intolerant baby (he said this as to an idiot when I asked about it ) I dream of being able to use the lactofree range

Forgotten what else I was going to say.

Good luck reading that through the typos. Sorry

• time for another bash *did it properly (increasing dairy challenge) at Xmas.

WHY am I incapable of typing on my phone...?

Yeah, I did wonder about the lactose in BM. It's normally CMPI in babies for that reason. Who knows? DS2 is going to be sleeping through the night from 10 days old like my DM says I was pretty sure she was lying Apparently I also never threw tantrums lying and was never fussy with food or medication more lies so I'm in for an easy ride this time around

We had some very tasty vegan ice-cream tonight from this lot. Ought to have been for £6.99 but DS was chuffed to buttons. Made from water, agave nectar, cocoa and cashews (!) Those vegans think of the darnedest things...

The egg thing interesting because egg is literally the only thing dd has consistently refused to eat since weaning. She is possibly the least fussy eater in the world other then eggs. Won't touch then.

elph she is still coming through at some point but it has been getting later. We have had quite a few nights it has been after 5 and a couple after 6. That was until she developed a bit of an explosive tummy bug which is waking her up... not to mention adding an interesting bit of added jeopardy to the toilet training.

We haven't done anything at all to discourage her from coming through so pretty pleased at any improvement at all.

Don't worry Dreaming I can read your posts fine. Thank you for having taken the time to type it all out! The vegan ice cream reminded me I should try rolling nuts out again.

Do you feel that Ann is helping? 11 wakings a night does not sound great so I am hoping you are working on the other twin. Which one is DT the Terrible?

elph now you have it down to a pat so your DS2 can't pull any tricks on you! He might as well sleep on through.

Sorry peregrine bad post. Ann is sorting dt1 or DT the Terrible he bloody is, more work.than dd and dt2 put together he is and also helping with bedtimes in general which were bedlam with 2x2year old and a 3 year old and one of me. DT2 is sleeping through but out of bed repeatedly.for up to.an hour after being put down. He got up 11 times then, not in the night. However I think he is almost at needing to drop his nap (Ann disagrees and says he's too young but dd had totally stopped napping by now too ) and isn't that tired an lays an least bedtime plus dh as previously complained about is being useless at consistency. Ann has transformed bedtimes.so far and I actually cannot believe that my stubborn little beast DT the T went to sleep, way faster than dd or dt2 with almost no tears (less than a minute if that) with me on the landing. Phase 2: the nights starts tomorrow I think. Not looking forward to that.

Have to post and. come back, forgotten the rest and the app is useless

and you do cost me a lot of money elph £345 on Ann, those nightlights plus delivery as none in stock in either our or my mum's local b&q and now you're introducing me to £6.99 tubs of vegan ice cream!!!!

I should start charging these places a commission. Won't have to go back to work, then

I was going to say I'd probably be loathe to shell out that much for it again (it was nice but, y'know, the price is obscene) then I saw they do maple pecan Everyone has a price. Maple pecan is mine.

Hello everyone! Phew, this has been a busy old fred while I was away! Welcome all sleep deprived newbies, I will try and catch up on about 100 posts and reply just as soon as I get a chance! In the meantime, always cheers me up on a crappy bedtime night...

Just checking in briefly to say we're back from hols and actually made it through more or less unscathed and without serious mental scarring! Getting an overnight ferry with a toddler and a baby was, well, interesting… and funnily enough did not involve much sleep all round - think it was midnight before DD1 stopped trying out all of the beds and finally went to sleep. Amazingly enough, she didn't even stir an hour later when DD2 woke up and screamed the place down for about half an hour until I managed to jiggle (not easy in an extremely tiny cabin!) her back off to sleep again.

Both girls were pretty good all holiday though, with DD2 sleeping in her own room for the first time (there was no room for her in ours!). DD1's naps were a bit of a disaster in the travel cot so we had to revert to car and pram naps - cue argument with OH on the suggestion that he needed to drive for an hour and a half to which he replied "but where to? I can't just drive!". Um, yes you can. To somewhere approximately 45 minutes away and then turn round. Simples, no? Apparently not to a man…

Dreaming and Elph, maybe you should check out this site quirkycooking.blogspot.co.uk - lots of ideas for various-things-free ice-cream and other treats.

PS Taking out second mortgage to buy a thermonix not actually required…

Just a quick post- elph , tell me, how many nights did you spend on your ds' s floor?!? I have realised the kicking me all night equates to about 6 wakeups when I'm on the floor and have to wake up more to reassure. I'm tired. DD had to day to me before 9am "mummy, please don't talk in a cross voice, it's much better to be kind" Not as much crying as anticipated though. V uncomfortable. I can just fit a camping mattress by his bed if it's put down once the door is closed but not enough room to stretch out fully. I really hope this works.