Misery loves company: to ride it out or Something Must be Done- pick your camp :)

[DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep]

Hello again all- may the sleepers continue sleeping, the new arrivals due or here get the idea very quickly and the rest of us see the light at the end of the tunnel!

I never thought we'd "sleep train" at such a young age but something had to be done for the situation I was in which was feed to sleep and hold in arms for ALL naps as any transfer would instantly wake him. His naps are usually 40 minutes so I would be pinned to the sofa unable to answer the phone or door or move a muscle 4 or 5 times a day and it was totally dominating my life.

At night we co-slept but his lordship would sleep starfished on half the bed while DH and I spooned on the other half and in this heat it was just too uncomfortable! When I did get the chance to grab a few zzzzzs I at least wanted to be comfortable so I just made the decision that all sleeps day and night were to be in the cot from now on whatever it took. I was unable to lift him in asleep as the sides were fixed so putting him down drowsy was my only option.

I tried PUPD (it sent him into a mad rage) and gradual retreat (I don't think he was arsed if I was next to him or not) and in the end decided to just let him get on with it. He cried a frustrated "I'm tired and I don't know how to get myself to sleep" cry for about 25 minutes and then found his fingers and suck, suck, suck was off to sleep within about 2 minutes.

So I'm not trying to night wean or STTN (yeah, right!) just needed to get him sleeping in his cot.

I always thought I never had anything to regress from at 4 months...boy was I wrong!

Does anyone have any tips for getting DS to sleep next to me rather than on me?

A few nights of getting almost two-hour blocks of sleep with him on my chest without having to get up to rock him back to sleep every forty minutes has got me into an optimistic mindset - it'll probably pass soon...

scandi I had that problem with DD and the only thing that worked in the end was to wait until she was asleep, roll sideways and let her lie on my arm, with my other arm on top of her. Effectively hugging her.

This also meant I could rock when she woke up.

After she was used to this and started falling asleep like that, I started removing my arm veeery slowly.

It took me a while to achieve these two steps, but totally worth it at the time. I still remember the joy when I skipped into the sitting room and DH and I just started at the monitor in awe. I was free!

Fool that I am, now I'm doing it again.

Elph that's brilliant, really is. And the timing couldn't be better for you!

Cross-post with msmugoo - that sounds very familiar, except the starfish syndrome.

Think I'm too hippie for the CIO approach, may be different when I'm going back to work in a few months though. Until then, I'd settle for just some time not being propped up on my back...

Poppy, that sounds like it might work, I'll give it a go!

I can so feel your wonder at skipping into the sitting room sans baby - I can literally count the number of times we've been in the same room without the baby on two hands. For seven months... Now I'm making myself depressed

Hello new sleepless people! :o

Have you tried the blanket trick for putting them down? Also making sure the cot/bed mattress is warm. Probably already doing this but the only way I could put dd down at that age was by feeding to sleep then wrapping her up nice and tight in a blanket and putting her down like that. I think it reduced that sudden feeling of being all exposed after nice cuddles.

At 4-6 months old dd was waking every 45mins to an hourmall night. 2 hour sleep was some sort of mystical bliss I could only hope and pray would appear one day. It was bad, but it did get better....slowly...

I second the blanket trick! I'd wrap DS in a blanket, feed to sleep then transfer like a Kung-Fu master onto the nearest bed-like surface, blanket and all. This worked only temporarily, however At around five or six months I just gave up and let him nap on me from then on. I remember having to excuse myself from Christmas proceedings about three times in 2012. I ended up getting quite fond of my regular excuse to park my arse, particularly as he slept longer and more deeply on me, so was less of a surly little bugger when he was awake.

Out of curiosity Poppy have you done anything different with your DS (or did you intend to do anything different with DS that didn't eventuate) to help sleep? I'm naturally formulating all sorts of plans, safe in the knowledge that they are highly unlikely to actually happen.

Just popping in quickly to say thank you Poppy!!

DH tried the sideways rocking trick, and we got an amazing thirty baby-free minutes! This must be how the other 90% live...

Very pleased for you scandi. It's crazy how grateful we are for any crumb of normalcy, isn't it?

I liked the sideways because I could breastfeed and watch Netflix on my phone behind DD's head. Went through dozens of box sets

Elph sadly started out with the intention of being tough and taking no nonsense (i.e. DS will sleep in cot, etc). Yeah... co-sleeping and he's waking up every 30ms. You'll be luckier and do better than me, though Elph

Well, DS2 is already 7lb-ish and transverse at 36 weeks so the ELCS has been booked for 4 August. I've got another scan in two weeks, though, to check his position. If he's got himself head-down by then and continues to be an average-ish size they've said I can change my mind and try for VBAC. Oh, the indecision I almost hope he stays transverse so I don't have any other option. I'd hate to choose VBAC then have it be worse than last time, and I'd hate to choose ELCS for them to discover he could have come out the normal way. ARGH!

Well my vb was shit and third degree tear hell and my elcs was lush. Don't torture yourself elph I did for my whole pregnancy with the boys. I honestly.dont think it matters that much having stressed massively about this myself. dt1 was head down so I could have had a vb even with dt2 breech. Although dt2 turned at 37+3. They told me I was wrong and he couldn't as no room for a twin to turn at 37+3 but sure enough after a breech scan at 36 weeks he was born head down at 37+6 . It bloody hurt, I thought he was coming out alien-style, I know when he turned I don't know what to hope for elph?! transverse

DH is totally shit at sleep consistency. I had a haircut last night (at my mums, mobile hairdresser) and luckily got dt1 to sleep just in time but no.time.to help DH with dt2. It took him over 2 hours "I tried everything" . Yes you bloody idiot. But you're not meant to . Just do the same thing, the agreed thing, keep putting him back!!! don't put him.back, then lie on the floor by his bed, then sit in the room near the door, then get the rage, then lie by the bed again, then lose it and shut the door while dt2 cries. Idiocy.

hello to.all the new.sleep deprived people! I am.indeed the proud owner of a 27 month old who's never gone 8 hours better had soon with Ann's programme

Elph I've said this before, for me birth is to parenting what wedding is to a marriage.

In both instances, I care a lot more about the latter.

I wasn't that invested in the actual birth; my priorities were to get out of there with my DC alive, undamaged and in good health. I needed two c-sections for a myriad of reasons and they were both beautiful, calm and positive.

I trusted the doctors, felt in control and was able to focus on DH and DC when they came out.

I totally get that it's very important to some people and respect that, but to me it's what you do for the next 18 years that matters

I know, I know...it's one of those irrational things, innit? DH and DM just want me to go for ELCS because they don't want the slightest chance of a repeat of last time, especially DH who says it was the most terrifying thing he's ever experienced in his life. Gah. I suppose I've accrued plenty of Earth Mother points with extended breast feeding, cloth bumming and a smattering of baby wearing

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

I did all that with DD, but drew the line at cloth bumming the second time around (although am still largely using cloth/reusable wipes).

The amount of laundry in this house is RIDICULOUS.

I promise no one will revoke your lentil weaver card if you decide on a ELCS!

I'm a vegetarian as well so maybe a hypnobirth ELCS?

Dreaming I'm starting to think the consistency thing is paramount and that it doesn't really matter which "parenting philosophy" you subscribe to (within reason) as long as you're consistent.

I took me MONTHS of going into DD's room and put her back down on her cot for her to get the message. Dozens of times every night. I actually thought I was going demented, but then decided it was a survival thing - no words, no "pick up", no cuddles, no shushing, just put her down again.

Over and over and over again. She then started diving down when she saw me coming in and then one day she didn't get up anymore, didn't wake up anymore. I guess she was as bored with it as I was by then.

On the DS front, I'VE CUT THE MILK SUPPLY DURING THE NIGHT
He was surprisingly fine with it, but nothing changed. He's still waking up every 30ms.

Sorry for the binge-posting, can you tell DD is napping?

Elph I almost asked for a "gentle ELCS" with the curtain down, etc. but then had words with myself.

Very much a carnivore here, so you're miles ahead!

Sisters! Where have you been all this time? Can't believe I have only just found this thread. Also in awe at some of the posts full of wit and punctuation considering the reason they were posted in the first place.

May I join the party? My DS is 9 months and mostly needing assistance to get back to sleep every 50 minutes or so through the night. I have been working part time since he was 5 mo and full time since this week and am shattered.

He is on ranitidine against reflux and I think he has dairy sensitivity along with some other foodstuffs, but I may not have identified all the culprits. At some point I was down to a total range of ten foods in my own diet (I am still bfing) and that was just not sustainable. He has had maybe ten days in his life so far when he slept for at least 3-4 hours in one g, and once he slept for 7 hours! So I know he is able to do it but no idea what was different.

DH helps with walking with DS in his arms until he can be put back down for half the night, when he is here, but he travels a lot. Also, lately DS has been waking up 5-10 minutes after being put down in an apparently deep and calm sleep, so after 3-4 attempts by DH he migrates onto my boob. And at over 10kg, he is not that easy to lug around with my bad back.

Last night DH was away and I felt I can just not take it any more and did the one thing I had resolved never to do, which is to let him cry. He took 2 minutes in his cot - with me patting and shushing - to progress to a desperate shrieking wail with his little body all rigid and his arms stretched out and shaking, so I picked him up full of remorse. At 3:30 am I felt ready to try and see if he'd learn to fall asleep next to me, in the big bed. He whimpered and tore at my clothes for two hours before I gave in again and latched him on my boob. I am at work now and I feel like my heart is about to stop with the exhaustion.

(Wrote this earlier but could not post in the end. Have left the office by now! And readying myself for another eventful night.)

Welcome Peregrin! Pull up a sofa for a (short- lived) lie down. A 10kg 9mo?! Holy hell, are you producing gold top?! Mine's just gone 2yo and he's 12.5kg! , cake and buckets of empathy for working on no sleep. Some days I was sure I was hallucinating.

Dreaming Seriously? I swear to Christ an entry requirement for doctor training is genius IQ, zero common sense. It would have taken less than two hours to just stick to the plan FFS.

I actually give up with him elph , I really do. I mean seriously. The man has more post grad diplomas than you can shake a stick at but he cannot follow a simple instruction. FFS.

peregrine sounds bloody awful. My eldest twin, aka DT the Terrible had reflux and was dairy soya and egg intolerant (egg one is resolving now) . Have you seen the dietician? He sounds so like my twins with their intolerances. Except my dt2 is only dairy intolerant and once that was sorted out with my and his diet he settled down within a couple of months. Not so my other twin mind. he's the one on the sleep consultant programme at the minute I assume he's being checked by the paediatrician etc but my dt1 has been so, so, so much better on omeprazole and domperidone instead of rani to dine and domperidone. Get thee back to pads I say.

oh crap just got to go and put dt2 back in bed...

Put back #7 I think. doh. I blame dh, of course. Will have to go and do 8 in a minute I think.

sorry, where was I?! while.i bf like a loon my dt1 gained weight really well and was chubby. Over 12 months he didn't do so well. Gained 65g in 4.5 months then lost 100g. Boo! got us the omeprazole though He was 10.4kg aged 2. Though has banged it on in the last 4 months and is now 11.2kg, hurrah!

poppy everyone told me my boys would be pretty laid back as second and third babies. bullshit.

anyway, off to return this boy again. ..

Oh and poppy I restarted night feeds in desperation about a month after I stopped them.and nothing changed. except then they were bottles of almond milk. Then realised it was utterly ridiculous. Stopped again. about 2 months in total but it did help a lot. Persevere, you've done well!!!

Just reading through the gumph I got today on preparing for ELCS. They ask that you do your own...ahem...shave before attending the ward on the morning of the op. I do wish they'd attached diagrams as to how I'm supposed to do that with this bump. My mind is boggled!