Sleep Nightmares Part III: At 3am No-One Can Hear You Scream

[CountBapula]

I've been moaning about documenting my 8 mo DS's 'challenging' sleep patterns on MN since he was three weeks old. He's still waking every 2-3 hours at least and the other thread's full, so here's a shiny new one for all you parents of hardcore sleep refusenik babies.

Who's with me?

Hello again, anyone else tried Wake to Sleep? Did it again last night at 3 a.m. and DD woke at 4.45 and didn't go back to sleep (got up with DH at 5.30). Her reactions have been pretty erratic so far. Do I change the time to do it at 3.45 - i.e. is it hour from when they last woke, or when they habitually used to wake? Would love any help on this.

Mama Maybe your best bet is to start a new thread on wake to sleep?

Thanks cos for the info.

Time to move on to the next step. DD is now waking as soon as I move my hand from her tummy so tomorrow or Sunday I'm going to just sit by her and shhh. Wish me luck.

DS has been awake since about 1 pm, tried to get him to nod off at 3 and at 5. DS is now crawling and I think he's too excited to nap when out. Not really looking forward to tonight. I am hoping DH does not get wound up by it all, start of the long weekend and all... I've tried to be more relaxed about the whole sleep thing because my attitude has probably not been helping. We are leaving the sleep consultants thing for a couple of weeks. C-a-l-m......

My son went through the night from 4 months. My advice - 1 sleep in the morning, 1 in the afternoon, try to get the last feed in approx 11. then when you put them down, LEAVE THEM ALONE!!! they have to self settle and if you dont do if from any early stage you are making a rod for your own back. NEVER EVER, under any circumstances bring them into bed with you. My son is now 11, has never been in my bed & never wakes up in the night.
Get real girls or you will spend the rest of your time keeping those same hours.

Thanks wiseoldowl. My DS1 was always "helped" to sleep until he grew out of needing me to be there, this was when he was all of 18 months, he also never wakes and self settles. But you know what, if he's unwell I still let him come into our bed if that's what he wants and is where he feels safest. He may have been a rod for my back for that year and a half but he was a lovely, cuddly rod.

Most of us here have chosen not yo leave their little ones to learn to self settle because we feel that parenting doesn't end and bedtime just because we would like it too.

Wiseoldowl "get real"? Thanks soooooo much for your advice.

Well ladies, I have good news. DD went fell asleep after her 11pm feed and... and... didn't wake until 7! I had 8 hours sleep! [so happy I could cry emoticon] I'd love to say I was up all night checking on her but nope, I slept straight through too. Then when she woke up she chatted happily in her cot for a bit.

God I hope the same thing happens tonight.

quoting rod for your own back = automatic ignore

Anyway, we had a good night here. He went to sleep really quickly with me standing facing away from him 6 inches from the door. He woke twice, once at 11 and once at 5, but each time DH settled him really quickly. I'm so proud of how well DH has done with him this week.

ComeradeJing that is fab fab fab

comradejing we celebrate with you!! the holy grail of a whole night's sleep
Good stuff your end too cosmosis

wiseoldowl

Good to hear about everyone's successes! Excellent news.

We're in Wales at the moment visiting DH's family and friends. We're staying with DH's best mate but DS has thrown a spanner in the works by pretty much refusing to sleep. He woke every two hours last night and would only settle with a bf . DH and I are sleeping in his mate's ludicrous shag-podium of a bed - the thing is literally three feet off the ground - which certainly added a touch of paranoia to the night feeds as I was terrified of dozing off and dropping DS over the edge.

Think some sleep training might be necessary when we get back. DS was sleeping OK until this trip, but taking an age to settle at bedtime which is driving me nuts. Also - can't remember who was asking about naps at nursery upthread, but DS is settling in with the CM at the moment, which is going great except that it took her 20 mins to rock him to sleep and he only slept for half an hour (usually he does 1-2 hours) so might have to work on that too.

Hello everyone. Had a busy few weeks so not been posting much. DS is continuing to sleep pretty well - we've had quite a few nights when he's slept 7-5. Can't seem to get him to sleep any later but I really don't even feel like moaning about it as it's so much better than it's been.
We decided to move outside the room last night with our gradual retreat and DS settled ok with just a little crying. However, he then woke at 8pm and 9pm. At 9pm he was crying really hard so DH went back inside the room - not sure what we'll try tonight.
DS has his first full morning settle at nursery so I'm a bit nervous as to whether he'll nap. I'm back to work 2 weeks tomorrow .
Cosmosis - before we started gradual retreat my DH was really unconfident about settling DS. I think having a plan really helped him and he's really good with him now. I think confidence is the main thing (last weekend it was me who had no confidence - now I've stopped feeding in the night I feel one of my main weapons is gone in settling DS).
Glad you got a nights sleep comrade! Hope it continues.

Hello everyone, it has been a while. I've been wanting to update for a while and then say my goodbyes to this thread - not for reasons of great success but because I am back to work and my time to Mumsnet is greatly reduced.

I can't remember when I last posted but after turning 1, DS has started to sleep through some nights. I would say about 1 in 3 or 1 in 4. We have had some teething hell though, which always throws a spanner in the works, and DS has started to have days where he is quite an early riser (understatement - he wakes at 5.30am! I never expected to be happy with a 6am wake up time but I always am so grateful when he wakes any time after 6!!).

DS has started nursery 2 days a week, and yes he doesn't sleep much there, though he does sleep when all the other babies do. Some days it has been for just half an hour. Nights are rough when that happens but in some ways it has been good for me to realise that, while not ideal, the sky does not cave in when DS does not sleep enough. I do have the tendency to get a bit crazy about his naps, which is counter productive. I am hoping that he will get used to it and sleep longer, but it is hard with other babies who also don't sleep much - they keep each other awake. Count - a CM sounds much better in that sense.

Great to read all your successes. Hanbee I liked your most recent post. That really sums up how I feel.

MamandeRose I don't know much about wake to sleep, but there was a thread on here a while back about exposure to light in the early evening and how that can help babies to sleep longer in the morning. May be worth a try? Some people on the thread had great success with it (have to confess I did not!!)

Thank you, Mr C, I will look that up. Last night a bit better, DD woke three times briefly, but then slept till 6.40... Hoping its a breakthrough

Hello, was speed-reading earlier... Thanks MrC and Count for responding about nursery. DD had her first full day on Friday (we were all rather tense!). This wouldn't happen in UK I'm sure, but we live in Holland, and they suggested trying her in one of the OUTSIDE cots... They're like big rabbit hutches on legs on a verandah (so roofed over and out of the elements). Stops the babies waking eachother up. She apparently slept 1 hour in the morning and 2.5 hours in the afternoon, and was certainly in v good form when we got her home. So, job done, we hope! Just off to bed (we're an hour ahead) and keeping everything crossed for a peaceful night. And to all of you too!

Hi all, Still getting good nights sleep here thank goodness. Trying to move on from patting her to sleep but she goes bananas and cries and puts her little arms through the cot and reaches for me. It's horrible for both of us. :(

Need to be brave and just do it though.

Any ideas on how to extend naps? DD still wakes every 20 - 40 minutes for naps.

Hi, I'm new. Not going through anything as horrific as many of you but let me tell you my situation.

DS2 is 8 weeks. We have got him going to bed at about 8pm, (fed and put down asleep) where he will stay until between 2-3pm sound asleep. I know many of you would take that gladly but bear with me! After feeding then (ebf) he wakes every hour, not really crying but slowly getting more and more agitated. He can writhe around for an hour before he really starts to protest but I am of course awake for the whole thing. If I pick him up as soon as he stirs he occasionally burps and will go back to sleep (for the next hour). If I leave him he has very occasionally gone back to sleep but usually continues to wriggle and grunt until he starts shouting out, then is really hard to get back to sleep.

I am sure it is wind/discomfort of some kind. I spend ages winding him after feeds and don't feed him again after the first one (only becasue he is not hungry and though may comfort suck to sleep only wakes worse again as more windy; not becasue I don't want to or don't think I should feed again at this age!)

What I am finding very hard is that, due to a medical condition, DH needs rest so has been in spare room since DS2's birth. I am coping with this completely alone and somethimes spend the hours from 3.30 in tears of frustration and resentment, listening to him snoring in other room. Not his fault, nothing we can do but god its hard. I then have to get up and look after DS1 and DS2 all day while DH is at work. I love DS2 but in the night feel so angry. Not really with him but just angry and frustrated and really want to wake DH up and say 'I can't do this on my own anymore'.

after wriggling around on the bed next to me for ages, DS cried out, i picked him up and he is now sound asleep instantly on my chest. i love him so much but am really struggling with this - he is ok at settling during day, i'm sure it is discomfort waking him at night as he takes ages to wake fully and seems to be desperate to sleep! i just don't want my days starting at 3.30am every day

Hi DontShoot, I really really sympathise. My DH works away in the week so I have to cope alone a lot too. It's really hard especially when you have to get up and have an older child to look after who's full of beans at 6 or 7 am. It does sound like he's struggling to digest/bring up wind. Perhaps you could try a different bottle? If this is cause he will probably grow out of it the next month or so I'd imagine. Does he seem to have digestive discomfort at other times of the day?

Hanbee but I can say honestly that I felt lack of sleep affected my bonding with my DD. DH also works away a lot so I'm on my own too and did/do every single night waking. There were times I wanted to smother DH with a pillow.

Ok so practical stuff. Can you afford a night nanny for a bit? Do you have any family who could do a night with some EBM? Or take the children for the day so you can get 6 hours sleep? Something a friend did was for the mother to go to bed at 6pm and the DH did the going to bed bit with EBM. Then when the mother woke at 3am she at least had 9 hours sleep under her belt. If you can't express then what about formula? Also, how much does he weigh?

Sorry my post was for don't shoot, not hanbee

dontshoot sounds like it's pretty tough. Have you considered cosleeping? It should hopefully be easier to get him back in the cot all night if you only cosleep from when he wakes. Also, I know you said it makes it worse but at 8 weeks my DS definitely needed more than one feed during the night. Have you ruled out reflux? It does sound a bit Luke silent reflux (where they bring up milk but swallow rather than vomiting). My DS would wriggle about in the night like you describe but I could also hear him swallowing. We got infant gaviscon on prescription and that really helped. In fact, comfort sucking and the milk making it worse really sound like it (the milk acts like an antacid but also makes the stomach make more acid).

don't shoot first my sympathies :(
Does your baby mainly sleep well on his front (on you) or a bit upright (on you for example, or in a sling, car seat etc). My DS has/had silent reflux which came about after about 2-3 weeks and would not sleep in his cot. In the day he cried after feeds. He was also really hard to burp and quite windy, lots of trapped wind. He did not chuck up much. Infant Gaviscon really helped him (then we moved onto other meds). The Little Refluxers website is good for other digestive discomfort (which is sometimes worse at night) etc or to help figure things out. xx

Thanks for your replies. He won't sleep on his front at all and always wants to be upright when held. I did think silent reflux for weeks but spoke to a lactation consultant who diagnosed over-supply and fast letdown instead, whioch has strated to resolve. But yes, we do have probs with wind, I'll check out that Little Refluxers website, thanks.

Thanks to you all for your advice, hopefully better tonight. Apologies for joining this thread with a slightly hysterical couple of posts (they may not have come across like that but I was in tears as I typed!). Good to know we are not alone isn't it?

sorry, meant 'wont sleep on his back at all'!

anyone up question mark - sorry one handed typing! i am not sure it is reflux, checked out that site and he isn't that bad. he just wont bloody stay asleep! co-slept last night in second part of the night, mafe no difference to sleeping/waking hourly at least. just harder to ignore the initial stages of stirring!

dontshoot I think it's worth seeing if your gp would let you try infant gaviscon. I wasn't sure for ages as DS was ok on his back during the night. I definitely think it helped though as it stopped my DS writhing around in the night (didn't help that much with the wakings though but at least I wasn't lying awake listening to him groan half the night). I think infant gaviscon is fairly benign and you can give it mixed with water if you're breastfeeding (I dissolved it in much less water than the pack said - abut 5ml - and gave it to DS with a syringe. I sometimes ust gave it in the night and normally at a bit lower dose - I think ff babies are expected to drink more in one go). Maybe ust say ot your gp you think he might have reflux and that's probably what they would prescribe. If you want to of course!