Sleep Nightmares Part III: At 3am No-One Can Hear You Scream

[CountBapula]

I've been moaning about documenting my 8 mo DS's 'challenging' sleep patterns on MN since he was three weeks old. He's still waking every 2-3 hours at least and the other thread's full, so here's a shiny new one for all you parents of hardcore sleep refusenik babies.

Who's with me?

damn, just wrote long message and lost it. well done to count and lev.

currently I get these babies to sleep first time by lying them down if they stand, and just sitting between the cots. last night they slept 7-10 with only one wake! but then 11.30 and hourly after that. count do you not even lay your ds down? does he lie down on his own? sounds like next step for me and you Judy. then I have to bite the bullet and not feed at every wake in the night. think they do sometimes wake for hunger (when they'll have a big feed) but often it's just the easiest way to get back to sleep (two sucks and they're gone). worried about waking ds1 with the crying though, which would give us a very grumpy 3 year old the next day...

good luck with being away Judy. doesn't matter if your ds' milk intake dips for a couple of days.

Well, when DH did it he found the best way was to just sit with DS and soothe him verbally. Eventually DS got down, crawled around a bit and basically crashed out. But DS responds to me and DH quite differently. When I've done it the last couple of nights I haven't laid him down every time. When he was really upset on the first night, I sort of cuddled him while he was stood up in the cot, then laid him down when he was a bit calmer, shushed and cuddled in the cot and repeated ad nauseam until he finally fell asleep. Last night he only cried periodically, and at one point he stood up and started babbling happily and bouncing up and down with a look of pure mischief. So what I did then was ignore him for a bit I sat on the chair next to the cot and browsed AIBU read. After a couple of minutes of me ignoring him he got upset and started crying quite a bit, at which point I laid him down, shushed and cuddled until he escaped and pulled up again. I did that about twice more and that time he turned his head to the side and settled, and I was able to shush him to sleep.

Hope your time away goes well, Judy. I'm sure it will.

Ds slept 7pm to 9pm and then 9pm to 5am last night! Think that is our best yet. And DH settled him by just sitting by the cot - even at the 9am waking. I think he didn't nap well while I was away though so he was really tired.

I got back just as DS was finishing his dinner and he stared at me for a few seconds and then his face broke into a big grin and he started boucing in his chair He cried lots though when I tried to settle him without touching him so I put my face up to the side of the cot and he touched my face for a little while then went to sleep. Just have to see how tonight goes.

That's great Judy

Last night DS2 went down very easily then woke up at 11, 2 and 4ish I think, I fed him put him back in his cot and he settled himself

He then woke at 5, I got him back down at 630

DS1 went to sleep at 9 and got up at 6

I am exhausted. DH is away for 8 days

One good thing is that I managed to resist the temptation to get DS2 in bed with me. I think while DH is away if I manage just to keep him in his cot I will be happy and we can think about cutting down feeds after that.

Great news, Judy! I'm so chuffed for you

Poor you, levantine - that sounds awful. Hopefully it was just a blip though.

We had a good night on Saturday - just one waking, at 3am. Last night DS slept 9pm-5:30am (the noisy twat across the road woke him by zooming off on his souped-up motorbike ), I fed him and he slept until 7. Can't believe how well he's sleeping. He's napping for 3-4 hours a day as well. I don't know what to do with myself!

It's still taking 30-40 minutes to get him down in the evenings, though. The crying seems to be decreasing in quantity and intensity, but he still seems to find it really difficult to wind down. DH settled him last night and at one point I could hear him squeaking excitedly and bouncing on the mattress (DS not DH).

Some really good news, well done Count and Judys.

Lev Hope things are ok when your DH is away - probably best to just get through it as best you can, then address anything once he is back.

Well I have some good news too (though have been reluctant to post in case of the MN jinx!) which is that DS slept through 7-6 for the first time ever on the night of his 1st birthday. Since then we have had one wake up a night and last night another clear run but up really early, ugh!

Can't believe how well your DS is napping Count! DS is not napping well, though it had got better. Unfortunately today he has only had one 30 minutes nap so far, so I don't know what tonight will bring.

I posted about this before, but once DS started standing in the cot it made bedtime a lot longer...initially we would lay him down again but now just leave him to get on with it, and he doesn't climb up as much as he used to. Over quite a long period of time he has needed less time to settle at bedtime but it sounds like your DS is going through something very similar Count.

Am back at work in a few weeks, and DS starts settling in to nursery next week. The end of an era...

Hello everyone, sorry for the absence. We were away for a week and the rest of the time I've been too knackered to type out a message!

Just caught up on the thread and I'm really impressed with how gradual retreat and leaving babies in the cot is working for some of you. I've also taken some comfort from the comments about babies sleeping better when they're ready to. On that note, I've decided to try to go with the flow a bit more. I'll still try to put her down awake and not feed completely to sleep, etc but she'll do it when she's ready. Hopefully that will be before she's started school .

In other news I've found a childminder who, fingers crossed, will be brilliant. I'm so scared about returning to work and the whole breastfeeding thing. I will be apart from her for TEN HOURS a day. I'm sure that's normal these days for working mothers but seriously, TEN HOURS???!!!

Count The LLL group I go to is the SE London one. I went to the park today with two girls I met at the sleep meeting and it was great to swap stories in person. The next meeting is a BLW picnic. If you're local you should come - it's a really nice group and lots of us seem to have the same issues - work, bfing, sleep, etc. It's nice to feel that what your LO is going through is actually normal!

Ooh, missrose will PM you! Good news about your CM. I will be leaving DS for 10 hours a day too :(

Good news, Raising! long may it continue!

DS has slept through three nights out of the last four and the amount of time to settle him at bedtime is gradually decreasing. Very little crying now too. In other news, I got my first post-DS period today Wondering if it's because I've suddenly stopped feeding at night? Anyway, have got cramps and everything :( had forgotten what a nightmare they are. Now I'm on MN maybe I should get a Mooncup

Wow, there's a lot of good sleeping going on at the moment, it seems! Well done everyone. I, on the other hand, have just fed dd completely to sleep, put her down, she woke up, so fed her back to sleep on the other boob .
DH just got in from work so passed her over for him to rock to an even deeper sleep . Hm, I wonder if there's a reason my very feeble attempts at sleep training aren't working...!

I think at one point a few weeks ago I would have found it depressing that the other babies were sleeping and mine wasn't but now I think it's great. Hopefully it means that eventually my LO will learn to do it too.

I think you will get there missrose. We're not completely out of it but it's getting better. Although we've been doing the gradual retreat some things have changed by themselves - DS has been napping for longer and I think that happened by itself.

I'm still glad we did the sleep training as if not we would probably still be letting DS suck our finger to sleep (it actually seems wierd to think that's what we were doing now).

Last couple of nights weren't so good but still loads better than before. DS woke 3 times the night before last and once last night but was awake for over an hour. I'm going away again next week to see my family so hope we don't regress while we're away - fingers crossed anyway.

Morning all, seems like great progress Count!. Lev I hope you're coping ok with your home-alone stint... I think you need lots of and later

Well we've changed tack slightly, we've been trying to gently move DS from cot to bed as he's two next month. The deal was if he self settles he can go in bed but if he wants to feed to sleep it's the cot.

The first night he self settled but after that he just treated like a game .... said milk-all-gone climbed into bed, light off, lay down, then sit up and wail miiiiillllk, so light on, more milk and repeat until he exhausted himself and fell asleep feeding. So 3 nights ago DH stepped in after 4 cycles of this and after an hour of singing/some fridge milk/etc DS went to sleep in big boy bed and slept til after 5am after which he comes into our bed for bf/cuddle/snooze.

And he's done the same for the last two nights too, fingers crossed but we seem to have got somewhere at last!

Also, to those of you going back to work....my experience with my two is

DD never a complete bf addict, managed fine with morning and evening feeds from 7-13months and two bottles during the day, after which we very easily weaned her (4-5m pg with DS and v v tender nipples, ouch!)

DS absolute milk monster, no semblance of routine, fed as often and as long as he could get away with plus all night. Went back to work at 10m, his settling in was shockingly almost easier than DD. He's there for 9 hours, 5 days, only drank fridge milk from a beaker just made up for it at night until we night weaned. I was worried sick about how he'd adjust but he was and is absolutely fine (but still feeds as much and as often as he can get away with my cheeky little boy).

I hope that helps a bit....

OhHelp Your comments about your milk monster ds are promising! I think I have the female version of that. Her favourite thing at the moment is to catch me at my weakest, eg 5.30am and then sit in my lap and launch herself first at one boob then the other! I've have to start covering myself up but she thinks it's a a game and starts clawing at my clothes! The childminder has got her work cut out!

I have a couple of interesting sleep things to report too. She's now 9mo and I've suddenly started co-sleeping. It all began when a friend had a baby who was very ill and in hospital for the first three weeks of her life. Happily she is home now and has a clean bill of health. It did make me think about why I was so determined that dd sleeps on her own all night long.

Now, I've been feeding her until she's almost asleep, putting her down in the cot and then my dh settling her if she wakes up. When she wakes for a feed around 11ish I take her into bed with me and she stays with me for the rest of the night. It's so lovely. I'm not getting any more sleep as she's so fidgety but I feel happier, she's much happier and if, when I return to work, I'm not going to see her for ten hours, at least we'll be able to cuddle in the night.

Last night she was burrowing away in the bed and then sat up, rested her head on my leg and promptly went back to sleep . She, she is self-settling!

Missrose- that really made me , she is indeed self-settling. Sometimes it is good to back off a little, go with the glow and give yourself a break from the "sleep training", enjoy your snuggles.

After 5 great nights here, we've just had 2 hell-ish ones, sigh, but he is still going to sleep in his big bed for DH rather than feeding to sleep which is progress. Need some zzzzz, time for bed.

Misrose your dd sounds like my Ds2!! We have much the same pattern of sleeping but we've been foing this for the last few months now. You'll probably find that you get used to her fidgets and eventually get more sleep by co-sleeping.

Hello all, am back from my hols and I have a bit of progress to report.

DS is doing really well at self settling the last week ? 4 nights in a row, then a 2 night blip and then 3 nights in a row again. Basically just started leaving him till he got really upset before starting the shh/pat (as per Judy?s suggestion) and he really took to it. He wanders round the cot, and messes about for ages and ages first mind you (We have had a lot of ?hilarious games? where he sits up, I lay him down with him giggling, he sits up repeat to fade?.) it can take up to an hour, but still he does it! I?m going to start gradual withdrawal now in the hope that eventually we?ll be able to put him down awake and leave the room. He is still waking up randomly in the night, anywhere from once to 5 times though don?t know what?s going on there ? he often settles without feeding though so I?m hoping that once he can self settle in the room alone he may stop those wakings.

Also I finally put up the blackout curtain linings and instead of waking somewhere between 5 and 6 as normal, we had to wake him up at 6.50 for his morning feed before work

I feel for those of you about to go back to work, but I promise it?s survivable ? DS does 9.5hr at the CM and yes, it?s a long time to be away from him, but it?s ok, you do get used to it. I can?t pretend it doesn?t make me sad, and it?s not what I want but it?s either that or we?re homeless as I don?t have a job that will let me got pt and we need my salary. DS went from a bf on demand blw baby who didn?t eat much, to a spoon fed ebm kind of on a schedule during the day baby and is just as happy as he was before honestly. The key is a childcare provider you have absolute trust in.

hello, can I join u? DS my lap asleep so excuse the typing. he woke 5 times last night. he's almost 7 m and been sleeping badly since 4.5 months when we moved him from moses basket to his cot. he was waking every 15 mins or every hour through the night. now a bit better but i cant remember! i was doing ncss but have stopped it and started to cosleep to get a break and some sleep. i am struggling a bit today. I blame myself sometimes when everyone elses babies seem to sleep better! :(
anyways x

hello and welcome to the thread :) Although sorry you have to join.

don't blame yourself, some babies sleep and some don't! It's very annoying if you have friends who have sleeping babies though.

How does your DS sleep in the day? is the co-sleepign working for you?

Hello number1son and welcome. It's so hard when every other baby seems to be sleeping through the night. I did hear about a friend of a friend who had twins and one slept really well and the other didn't so some it must be nature rather than nurture. I co-slept from about 5 to 8 months just to survive and think it made things a lot more bearable.
We're still plugging away with the gradual retreat. We were away for the last 8 days and went back a bit but I'm not worrying too much. I even co-slept with DS one night but we seem to be getting back on track. Trying to get back to settling DS without touching him again and then start moving towards the door....

Hi everyone,

I've got a couple of sleep questions and didn't want to start a new thread, hopefully someone can help me

I have 9 month old twins, I've mastered bed time (7pm) but they are still always waking (seperately) once between 4-5am wanting milk I am still BF so give them a quick feed and they go back down but always wake up and are awake for the day from 6.15am.

Do they still need milk in the night at 9months? have I created a habit because I feed every time (i'm too tired to try and re settle and have been picking the easy option) should I go cold turkey on the BF in the night? what can I do about the early wakings? I only want to sleep until 7am. I'm sure there are people having a much harder time so I apologise if i'm intruding, but would love a full nights sleep, I am so jealous of everyone with these sleeping through babies

Hi LaVita. My DS is 10mo and we are talking to a sleep consultant. He still wakes 1-3 times a night but he only ever feeds once. When we first spoke to the consultant at 8mo she said DS should not be feeding in the night and we cut down the feeds by a minute or two every couple of nights to gradually stop them. DS was still waking up at 4am and crying for an hour so she agreed we could still give him a feed between 4am and 5am. Now, DS is not hungry for a milk feed in the morning so she has said we should gradually get rid of this feed as well.

Anyway, do your twins feed well in the morning? If they don't, the feed is maybe just habit and you could maybe try and reduce the time you feed them for rather than cut it out cold turkey. This might be easier to do.
The sleep consultant also said that babies at this age sleep 11 hours so not sure there is much you can do about the 6.15am start. Hate to say it, but it may be normal.....wish DS would sleep later too!

Just thought of something more positive about the early mornings. Maybe you could put your twins in the cot to play during the day so they get used to it and are happy in there. Then, even if they wake up early they might not need you until a bit later.

DS2 is 13 months and still feeding 2-3 times a night. Goes down ok at 7pm then wakes around 1030pm for feed. Then he wakes between 2.30 and 3.30am is wide awake and refuses to settle.

We tried leaving him but he can scream for up to an hour. We are so exhausted. Tried feeding him again, tried leaving him, tried going in every 10 mins and rocking him. Nothing seems to work.

He is up around 4.30am for the day.

Any ideas where are we going wrong???

Seasidesister my DS1 did this, I thought he'd never sleep through! He suddenly started though at 14 months and is a pretty brilliant sleeper now at 2.10 years.

Look at his napping : is he having too long or not enough? Both can cause early waking. Also are his days predictable and settled, a loose routine where he knows what will happen next in the sequence helps if you're not already doing this. More fresh air and exercise in the late afternoon might help. Also make sure he isn't going to bed too late as if he's wired be might not sleep well.

Apologies if you're already doing all of this. One word of warning though my ds1 started sleeping through and I gel pregnant with DS2 a couple of weeks later! So then I was knackered for a different reason. Turned out DS2 was an even worse sleeper!

Thanks for the reply, you have given me hope, and it helps to know Im not the only one.

Yes I will check his napping, it varies really from day to day. Maybe I need to be more rigid? He always goes down around 8am and can do 30mins-1.5hrs. Lunchtime can be the same anything from 30mins to 2.5hrs.

He has just started walking so Im taking him out of the pushchair at every opportunity plus hes now running around the garden.

Routine is fairly consistent, give or take half hour or so.

Would really love to stop bf now but looks like theres no chance of that for the time being. sigh.

How did your DS1 cope with DS2? Im fortunate in that my first sleeps through anything.