newborn sleep nightmare, officially desperate

[ExistentialistCat]

2 week-old DD2 just won't settle in her crib at night at all. She'll sleep in her moses basket during the day quite happily, though. I've tried all the usual tricks (warming the mattress, swaddling, making a little nest out of a rolled-up blanket etc etc etc). We end up co-sleeping out of necessity but I don't want to, I don't get any sleep like that, and I'm not sure it's safe because DH and I are so extremely dopey now.

I'm averaging 2 hours sleep a night (not all in one chunk) and I just don't know how I can continue like this. I also have a 15 month-old DD1 and it's so unfair on her that I'm a permanently bf-ing zombie during the day.

Does all this settle on its own at the magic 6 week mark or is there something we could do to encourage DD2 to sleep in her crib? How do I survive the next 4 weeks? How much of an influence might bf-ing have, and could a night time bottle of formula help (I ff DD1 and don't remember the sleep issues being quite this bad in the early weeks)?

glad things seem a bit more settled for you.

dd doing the feeding but not really feeding thing here. snuffling around but not staying latched on. really annoying as not really sure what she wants.

I've just got fed up of the nonfeeding snuffling thing (having been feeding pretty much nonstop since 6) and passed DD to DH. She fell asleep in about 2 minutes! Worth a go for you, Bump? My theory is that newborns work themselves up into a feeding frenzy and can't settle down while they can still smell milk. Don't know if it's any good as a theory but it's just bought me 10 minutes without a baby being attached to my person, hurrah!

Don't get me wrong, I do love the snuggliness of newborns. But I seem to have had two DDs who are just not put-down-able in the early weeks, and it does get wearing having to do everything with a baby on you. I carried DD1 in a sling or in my arms pretty much nonstop for the first 4 months of her life, and everyone kept telling me I was setting bad habits. On the contrary - since she's been mobile, she's been incredibly independent. I'm clinging on to the hope that DD2 will follow suit and that one day soon I will look back on these limpet days with a certain fondness...

DH has her at the moment, she is still complaining though, sometimes it works. Am upstairs now and going to settle down for Come Dine with me and non stop feeding till some ungodly hour!

It's good to know that about the sling, I do worry that if I use it too much DD will be really clingy. DD1 wasn't clingy at all, though we probably still went through the not sleeping unless on me phase, I've just blanked it out! I do feel like things had settled down sooner with her though. DH is still on the sofa due to unpredictable nights.

Bump - I did worry about the clinginess thing, but as far as I can see it works the other way round: The baby sort of tanks up closeness in the early months and then has a secure base from which to explore the world. What I DO still worry about is that the sling is so warm and cosy that DD won't wake up to feed of her own accord and will end up sleeping too much in the day to settle at night. But it's worth being able to go about daily activities!

How was your night, everyone? We had an ok one - sleep from 11 until 3 (yay!) but then a long feed and general unsettledness until 5.30. DD has a cold and was finding it hard to breathe - so much for bf and wonderful immune systems!

hi all...

will attempt one handed typing. not been on for ages as been soooo tired/busy that laptop too daunting. things up and down here. dd now 5 weeks and huge. eating well but sleep still all over the place. had longest ever stretch of sleep last night 12.30 til 5.30, but then no sleep after that. feel human though. she wouldnt sleep at all in day yesterday which was actually exhausting, i suspect that is why she managed 5 hours.

she def fights sleep, i can see she is often beyond exhausted but wont give in - why would she do this?

on and off for the last wk she appears to have been colic-y - screaming in the late evening for a couple of hours. its not every night, starts after a late feed and appears to def be related to some sort of tummy ache.

am getting a sling today so hoping that might help her settle.

great to see people still supporting each other here!

(excuse lack of capitals)

Tuesday night was a bit of a 'mare - DS screaming blue murder until 1am and nothing helping - we ended up taking him out in the car to settle him. It worked and he slept for four hours, but we don't want to have to do that every night, obviously!

As he's now a month old we tried him on gripe water yesterday evening and bloody hell, he was like a different child! Some enthusiastic burps and farts (not to mention a couple of exploding poos) and he was zonked out in DH's arms by 11pm. We put him in his Moses basket and he stayed there until 2.45am. Still took bloody ages to settle after the feed but once he finally dozed off he slept on and off until 10am - another three or four hours in total. And no screaming at all - for the first time in about a week!

Not saying it's a miracle cure but if your LO is four weeks or older and a bit colicky it's definitely worth a try - we didn't get these results with Infacol. I've also started keeping him upright after feeds for a good 15-20 minutes and it really helps him bring up the wind. He can sometimes take 10 minutes or more to produce a burp, so my 3-minute winding sessions clearly weren't cutting the mustard before ...

Oh, and Bumperlicious, DS is also doing that faffing about thing during feeds - keeps losing the latch and sucking half-heartedly on the end of the nipple - all very strange, and particularly annoying at 3am when I just want to get the feed over with so I can get some kip. Got quite sore nips now!

Wow, that's good to know about the gripe water.

Last night dd fed on & off from 7-1am. At 1 I shoved her at dh & said "take her before I throw her out the window" . She was trying to feed but not staying on, I was knackered. So bless dh, she fell asleep on him till 4am. I think he was worried I might actually throw her out the window!

Themachinist, hopefully a sling will help. Have you tried a cranial osteopath?

Morning all! Just in the midst of 3-4hrs of groaning, straining and fussing - shattered, I look forward to getting beyond this stage!

Hi all,

we are still getting that seashells but have had a 'pattern' last two nights, DD feeding from early evening till 10-11 then DH tries to settle her if she is fussing. Attempt to put her down (this usually takes one of two goes with another feed to settle) then she wakes up between 3 and 4. She had been going down better after the night feed, but last night it was 1.5 hours before she settled.

Have tried a dummy but not interested, and tried gripe water. not sure if that helped as much as getting DH to settle her, but not been too horrific past two nights.

How's everyone else doing?

Had an amaing night last night - DD slept from 10.30 until 5.30! But she's hardly fed today at all, so I'm not even hoping for a repeat performance.

I hate the uncertainty of this stage. I can't even be really pleased about a good night because I immediately think that I won't be able to replicate it anyway... And I keep thinking that there are things that I could and should be doing to establish a routine and more sanity, even though I know from DD1 that babies do seem to find their own way somehow.

That's great cat, but i know what you mean about not enjoying it because god knows what the next night will bring.

dd is managing to do a 4/5 hour stint at night but it's anyone's guess as to when that starts. we are taking 3 attempts to get her into the hammock, she seems asleep, we put her down, she stays asleep for about 2 minutes then bing! her eyes are wide open and she needs another feed to get back off. this can be up to about 1am, it's so knackering, i don't know how i am surviving on such little sleep. pre dd2 i would be in bed by 10.30!

We have exactly the same pattern of an apparently fast asleep DD following a long feed, who suddenly realises, as soon as we put her in her crib, that she's NEVER been fed, EVER - and so it starts all over again. I find it very wearing. And once we've had the 5-ish o'clock feed, she won't settle in her crib at all but ends up sleeping on my chest or DH's, which is far from ideal.

I'm starting to fret about not having anything even remotely resembling a bath/bed routine. I know I'm probably being a bit ridiculous - this kind of routine just somehow fell into place with DD1 at around 10 weeks and DD2 is only 5 weeks old - but it still niggles at me. As does the fact that I'm feeding her to sleep pretty much all the time and that she'll only sleep on me during the day. On the one hand, I embrace the idea of doing whatever it takes to get through these early weeks. On the other hand, I sometimes feel like my parents are sitting on my shoulders whispering helpful things about making rods for my own back and setting up bad habits!

Are you fretting because you think you should have a routine or because you desperately need one? If it's the former I'd say bollocks to it, it's still early days. However the unpredictability is hard.

After two false starts in the hammock last night dd slept 11.30 till 6.30! We are starting to get a pattern here though it mostly involves sacrificing my evenings to cluster feeding, or if she drops off the constant dilemma of do I wake her to feed, is she going to do a long stint now or wake up at 2am (that seems to be about the worst time to be woken).

That was weird. We also had a pattern of evening cluster feeding and then a reasonable stretch of sleep. But last night DD skipped the cluster feeding and slept from 8-1.30!! Then a couple of feeds/failed attempts to put her down, and another stretch of sleep from 3.30-7. Not too bad, really, but now I'm utterly confused! I didn't trust the initial sleep so didn't go to bed myself until 10.30 - it always makes me so cross when I miss w possible sleep!

I had the do-I-wake-her dilemma, too, but decided to let sleeping babes (even in dirty nappies) lie...

I'm fretting about the principle of a lack of routine rather than not having one, and about the possibility of not having one in the future, as I definitely want w=one from 3-4 months onwards. I worry that bad habits now could scupper that possibility for later. But then I'm a ridiculous fretbag at the best of times and motherhood has made it worse!

Where and how is everyone else?!

I know that feeling cat, about not trusting sleep but dh has always encouraged me to go to bed anyway & sometimes I'd be 1 hour sometimes 4.

Last night we had another 7 hours! Please let this be a pattern! I don't mean to be smug. I feel like earned it after 4 hours of fussiness & cluster feeding. I should be grateful but somehow I still feel wretched. I guess I've got 9 months of sleep to catch up on as I had insomnia through my pregnancy.

Hope everyone else is getting some sleep.

Hi, hope you don't mind me joining this thread.

Does anyone else have a baby who spends five hours every night until about 2am with arms and legs flailing, gradually building up to a loud cry out , and then goes quiet, looks like she is falling asleep, only to start building up all over again?? Like she is waking herself up. Have tried swaddling (she hates), dummies (will sometimes take but doesn't settle to sleep and often does not want), feeding (she isn't crying due to hunger), nappy change, cuddle etc etc . It is so frustrating.

I know she will grow out of it (she is 4 weeks old now) but reading some of these posts I can concur with feeling like an utter zombie as getting very little sleep myself!

Hi again... emo76, yes some nights we have this.

Last night dd would not settle between 8 and 1. I thought she had colic last week, but now think her bonkers sleep pattern at night is a combination of trying to poo lying down - now have hours of grunting - and over tiredness. She fights sleep madly, was awake for a 9 hour stretch in the day on sunday. Crazy.

I now have a sling which, despite initially crying when i put her in it, settles her brilliantly. I have not worked out how to transfer her out of the sling to her cot though, she will not settle in there!

The predominant pattern (this week) is not to settle til about 1, then about 3 hours sleep, then not wanting to settle back down. At about 5 most mornings she comes into my bed and dp retreats to the sofa for a couple of hours.

I am beyond exhausted. Beyond sanity almost too.

Welcome, Emo! Your experience, and that of Machinist, sound eerily familiar. I'm going to see that as a sign that this is all normal newborn behaviour. Not that this makes it any easier to get through the sleep deprivation.

I'm quite chirpy about getting 4 hours of sleep at a time, but that's partly because I never slept more than about 40 minutes in one stretch from 30 weeks of pregnancy onwards because of various forms of pain and general physical collapse.

I'm sorry things feel wretched, Bump. Why do you think that is? I wonder whether there's a point when things are getting a bit better but it's starting to sink in that you're in this for the long haul.

Wishing everyone a good night...

I think I just have such a lot of sleep to catch up on. I had sleeping tablets twice in my pregnancy as I had such bad insomnia. Also i don't think I am sleeping that well which I think is probably just the lot of the new mother.

Also my boobs keep letting down in the night and I have a really painful let down, so that wakes me up.

Emo I sleep with my iPod ear phone in (basically like ear plugs) it cuts out most of the low level noise.

Bumperlicious I have considered ear plugs! Also considered co sleeping but all the advice seems to be not to unless you are breast feeding ( I am not) - I am scared of smothering baby / baby overheating etc so she is in a moses basked next to our bed. Husband sleeps in spare room during week so he can go to work with a decent nights sleep. I miss him but there isn't any point in both of us being absolutely knackered.

Last night we had the usual antics until midnight, then she fell asleep on me - got her into her basket and she woke up, did a huge poo, eventually got off to sleep at 2am (and given the previous 3.30am that felt like a minor victory!!) She then woke at 6am so four hours rest- I feel better just for that.

Can't wait until this flailing arms business stops, I am sure underneath it all there's a good sleeper trying to get out.....!!

Hope everyone had a better night.....

We took DS to the cranial osteopath yesterday and are quite surprised by the results.

The osteopath said he felt some tension in the neck that could have been caused by my induction (due to the intense nature of induced labours the baby can end up forced into an awkward position in the birth canal). He said that this could affect DS's nervous system - can't remember how, baby brain! - and thought this explained why he seems to be permanently wired. Osteo also said that DS's eye contact and general alertness were more what you'd expect in a 3-4 month old, which is a good sign in terms of intelligence etc, but his little 5-week-old nervous system can't cope with all the stimulation!

The treatment itself was really subtle and I was very sceptical - couldn't imagine how it could have much effect at all. We didn't notice much difference straight away. BUT DH put him down for a nap mid-afternoon and he (and I) slept for over three hours!

Then he woke up yelling for food (OK, some things never change) so I fed him, he sat on my lap for a while looking quite chilled and happy, had a second helping then just dozed off ON HIS OWN and lying on his back across my knees! I couldn't believe it - I got to watch Mad Men all the way through! I took him upstairs, swaddled him and put him down, and he didn't even flinch. Then slept for another 3.5hr stretch.

Since then have noticed that it is MUCH easier to get him to sleep if he's tired. I only have to rock/cuddle him for a couple of minutes now to send him off, which compared to 30mins of pacing, jiggling, white noise and false starts is a real improvement.

Not counting chickens yet but even DH is amazed by the change, and he thinks all alternative therapy is bollocks . We're going back on Sat - CO thinks we will need 3 sessions.

I really did think it was bunkum but am convinced it's working ...

Count that's great news, glad things are better.

Emo, this is going to sound bad, but I'm pleased to hear you are ffing. For those of us bfing theres always that part of thar wonders if things would be better if we stopped & switched. Your presence is a reminder that it doesn't matter how you feed them it can still be crap! Sorry, not meaning to revel in your tiredness!

I'm being punished today. We've had 3 nights of 7 hours but I dropped dd out of her car seat yesterday & on to her face & tonight she woke after 4 hours. After 3 nights I dared to dream we had a pattern. Alas, tWas not to be.

I have to second Bump's relief at Emo ffing but still having sleep problems - it's so easy to see bfing as the culprit and dream of a settled, well-rested life with bottles!

We've had a few better nights, at least 4-hour stretches of sleep (this is my bare minimum for functioning), but I'm not counting any chickens, especially as the fabled six-week growth spurt is looming.

Anyone else cross about the clocks changing? As if we haven't got enough to cope with!!

Commiserations at dropping DD, Bump - that must have been a terrible shock. One to add to the MN thread of baby's firsts that you don't see in standard baby books!

I don't know if it is 6 week growth spurt, the Wonder Weeks suggests week 5 is a cloudy week, with crying & clinginess. We defo have that today. Dd2 has cried all day & barely slept.

I think I am going to hand them over to dh for an hour when he gets in from work. The question is do I try & sleep or do have a nice bath alone?