newborn sleep nightmare, officially desperate

[ExistentialistCat]

2 week-old DD2 just won't settle in her crib at night at all. She'll sleep in her moses basket during the day quite happily, though. I've tried all the usual tricks (warming the mattress, swaddling, making a little nest out of a rolled-up blanket etc etc etc). We end up co-sleeping out of necessity but I don't want to, I don't get any sleep like that, and I'm not sure it's safe because DH and I are so extremely dopey now.

I'm averaging 2 hours sleep a night (not all in one chunk) and I just don't know how I can continue like this. I also have a 15 month-old DD1 and it's so unfair on her that I'm a permanently bf-ing zombie during the day.

Does all this settle on its own at the magic 6 week mark or is there something we could do to encourage DD2 to sleep in her crib? How do I survive the next 4 weeks? How much of an influence might bf-ing have, and could a night time bottle of formula help (I ff DD1 and don't remember the sleep issues being quite this bad in the early weeks)?

Oh my goodness mamachris, you win hands down! Well done for breastfeeding. i think i would have fashioned some kind of automatic feeding device, like a hamster bottle!

DD did an hour from 8.30 till 9.30 then after she'd fed DD1 woke up hysterical, then DD2 back down by 12.30, up again at 2.30-3.30 then up at 7, then we went out to a sling meet & dh off to work so no lie in.

DH just taken dd1 off to ikea. dd2 asleep on me. am torn between letting her snuggle or putting her down so i can do something useful.

hope the op went well seashells.

Something useful? Hope you mean grab some sleep your self Bumper :) As long as there's food to eat tonight and clothes to wear in the morning, there's nothing more useful than taking care of yourself, I think.

dts have slept pretty much all day today. which I think means another no sleep night. when do they start realising that night=sleep and day=awake?

Nope dd not happy with being put down all afternoon. ended up going to sainsbos, and dd yelled most of the way round.

hope everyone gets good nights tonight.

Hi all! Tt op went well and I'm already feeling a difference. Dd is still feeding hourly- mw weighed her and she is already over her birth weight. She suspects a growth spurt already!

She has hardly slept due to feeding today, so hoping things start to settle tonight- wishful thinking?!!!

glad your dd is doing well SSOTSS. Have contacted mw today to ask for dt1 to be referred. She is feeding, but much less frequently than her brother (who feeds just about constantly) and has only gained 60g this week.

D0G, they are girl (dt1) and boy (dt2). Sorry about the mastitis. Never had it, so no good advice, but lots of sympathy.

Thanks :) had a better nights sleep and less painful so maybe things are settling?

Sorry to hear of your mastitis dog. Hope it clears up soon. Take paracetamol to help with the pain and inflammation- can not be pleasant.

Wow, what a little club we seem to be building up! It's so good to hear about other people's experiences and to realise that this sleep deprivation nightmare is just part of newborn behaviour rather than a consequence of my terribly parenting !

Things have been mixed here, a run of horrific nights but then a stretch of sleep from 11-5 last night. No idea whether anything I do actually makes any difference, though.

DD2 is nearly 4 weeks now and I'm EBFing, but I question it every day (FF DD1) and wonder whether ff might help to encourage longer stretches of sleep. I'm not enjoying bfing: I have a 15 month-old DD1 and it's hard to settle down to marathon feeds all afternoon; I'm overwhelmed by the feeling of responsibility and being tied down; and I hate the unpredictability of it compared to 4-hourly ff. I know it's the best thing for DD2 and all that but I feel I've been mis-sold the whole experience by the militantly pro-bfing brigade!!

What are other people's experiences of bf, ff and sleep?

hiya ext cat

I am BF, and must say that sleep deprivation is due more to WIND than BF. I find it easy to wake, feed (he's in bed with me, my second child so more chilled!) than do a bottle. That said as hes a big boy I am feeding every three hours and he gulps his feed in ten minutes, greedy like me!

I am torn, some people say you do get longer stretches when FF, some say not. I can see how extended feeding all pm when you have toddler is hard!

good luck whatever you do

right now BF we are having 3 night waking average, one of them extended! ie 1 hour awake time, ugh ugh , usually about 5am

EC, I haven't ff, so can only offer what I know about bf.

I do recall that with ds1 the feeds suddenly got much quicker at some stage (6 weeks maybe? memory very hazy so I could be wrong on dates) which made the whole bf much simpler - no need to be tied to the sofa for hours. Also, have you tried feeding in a sling? Once you get the hang of it, you can walk around, do stuff with dd1 etc. I didn't bother much with ds1, but am finding the sling (I have a stretchy one) very useful this time round to give me hands free for ds1 and the other baby.

Up & down here. Bfing still painful despite multiple visits to bfing groups & osteopaths. No pattern to nights & feeds & settling taking at least an hour.

Do you guys give one or two boobs at night?

Am knackered. Finding being woken at 1 or 2 the worst.

Omg dd just slept 11-6. I don't know how or what I did but I want to bottle it. She was bloody noisy though so I still woke every hour thinking she was stirring but by the time i was up ready to feed she was sparko still. I kept laying back down thinking there's no point, shell be crying in a minute...I'm not even going to dare to hope this might be a regular thing. Also this was after 3 false attempts to put her down.

that's fantastic bumper! now you just got to get to a state where you sleep through too. it may not happen again tonight, but at least you know it's possible :)

At night I feed till they're asleep. with ds that meant 2 boobs (and often back to the first after the second). my aim is to get them as full as possible in one go.

sorry you're still sore. obvious question, but has your dd been checked for tongue tie? it's one possible cause of soreness.

This is the club for me! Got DS aged 2 weeks, sleeps all day in buggy/ moses/ car seat/ wherever, but up and down, fighting the boob all night long.

DP is wonderful and does all the nappy changes, tbh just having him there for moral support in the night is great.

But I have twice fallen asleep in a narrow single bed with DS on my chest, this is lethal but I can't see how to avoid it.

My midwife and some friends have said if you get the baby settled with a feed and the baby does a poo, you can just leave him unchanged until his next waking time. This is a great tip, as the endless nappy changes wake him up and make him howl, even after a lovely drowsy feed.

Also, have had loads of issues with bf, he's fine now during the day but at night he gets amnesia and forgets how to latch on, preferring to scream and struggle as if I was trying to stab him, not feed him.

Can't offer much help but I so so sympathise with everybody on here - with such small babies surely it can only get better from here. They aren't supposed to know night from day yet I don[t think.

My two were a bit like that and I had to work soooo hard to get them to sleep through. I also didn't want to co-sleep.

You could try one of those cots that attaches to the side of the bed? Also, here are some baby sleep articles that have helped me out a lot.

Good luck! I am pregnant with baby number three and not looking forward to the early months of no sleep again!

Welcome to our sad little club morriszapp. Mamachris, no one has checked for tongue tie but will ask at the bfing group on Tuesday. Have had a look & it's not obvious.

Great to hear about your miracle night, Bump - so good to know it's possible!

I think I find the unpredictability harder than anything, day and night. Never knowing when/how long DD2 will want to feed or how long the next stretch of sleep will be. I am not one to go with the flow!

Tongue tie has come up for a few people so I thought I'd add my experience: DD1 was tongue-tied and had it snipped at 1 week old, but it made no difference to bfing. I know it can be almost like a mircale cure for some. I was keen to have DD2 checked out and talked to MW and HV at some length - they both said that it was a bit of a fashionable thing at the moment, diagnosing tongue tie, and that it was debatable how much difference a mild tongue tie really made to feeding...

Hope everyone has a good night. Just settling down to the feeding frenzy/mad headbutting and shouting at the boob part of the evening. Doesn't help that toddler DD1 has suddenly decided to play up at bedtime.

This too shall pass...

Didn't last. 2.30 then 5 tonight. She is still squirming violently now.

How do you know when tp transfer them into the cot without waking?

Didn't last. 2.30 then 5 tonight. She is still squirming violently now.

How do you know when tp transfer them into the cot without waking?

Urgh I hate this bit where you just don't know when they will go back to sleep. She is currently thrashing around. I just want to go back to sleep!

So an hour & a half later finally asleep

Ugh. What a night. Feeding midnight to 1.30, then 4-5.30, and then squawking until 8!! Sounds like our little ones are on the same wavelength, Bump!

HV who is also BF counsellor was v honest when I asked when this would settle down, and admitted that it would probably take rather longer than it did for ff DD1. She said not to expect much sleep before weaning at 6 months !!

Sorry you didn't have a very good night either cat.

Dd now won't even sleep unless on me, despite doing so perfectly fine till now. I just need some space, I want to be able to do something for myself when she is sleeping rather than the bare essentials of eat, sleep or shower. I want to be able to wake up naturally.

I want to go on strike today, just go out the door & leave dh to it, & I know he would let me. If it wasn't for the bloody bfing...

It may not settle down till 6 months but it may do. I seem to remember settling into a pattern with dd1 & she was bfed.

EC, ds was a terrible sleeper, but I remember friends who also bf having babies who slept through from quite early, so bf does not necessarily mean bad sleep. just to give you some hope.

bumper, I have never managed the transfer to cot. I was determined with twins that I wouldn't co-sleep, but after falling asleep sitting on the side of the bed holding two babies, I decided cosleeping is (at least for now) probably safer. It also means that if only one baby is awake/feeding, I can lie on my side to feed that one, and drift off to sleep safely. luckily dt1 will sleep on her own for up to 3 hours at a time, so often I effectively cosleep with dt2 while dt1 sleeps beside us.

bumper, sorry you're having such a bad day. It does get better before 6 months, I do remember that. Think ds got into a daytime routine from 8 weeks, with predictable nap times (in buggy or in our arms, but at least dp could share the buggy naps). can you let dh do some of the between feed times? can you think of just one luxury thing you'd like to do for yourself that might be do-able in about an hour while dh can look after her? It's not a whole day on strike, but one sanity hour can often work magic, I find. hang in there.