newborn sleep nightmare, officially desperate

[ExistentialistCat]

2 week-old DD2 just won't settle in her crib at night at all. She'll sleep in her moses basket during the day quite happily, though. I've tried all the usual tricks (warming the mattress, swaddling, making a little nest out of a rolled-up blanket etc etc etc). We end up co-sleeping out of necessity but I don't want to, I don't get any sleep like that, and I'm not sure it's safe because DH and I are so extremely dopey now.

I'm averaging 2 hours sleep a night (not all in one chunk) and I just don't know how I can continue like this. I also have a 15 month-old DD1 and it's so unfair on her that I'm a permanently bf-ing zombie during the day.

Does all this settle on its own at the magic 6 week mark or is there something we could do to encourage DD2 to sleep in her crib? How do I survive the next 4 weeks? How much of an influence might bf-ing have, and could a night time bottle of formula help (I ff DD1 and don't remember the sleep issues being quite this bad in the early weeks)?

Thanks mamachris. Feel bad whinging when you have a lot more to contend with!

DH has DD2 for now, but she is wailing. SHe hasn't pooed for a while so I think that is bothering her. The thing is he is trying to get stuff done that we haven't had time to do the rest of the week (he worked 6 days this week).

I can't relax while she is wailing. Feel like I am constantly feeding. This is just bad sleep, I felt so much better yesterday. The tiredness really drags me down.

That's crap dog, but at least if you see the gp it should get better.

Crappy day continuing here. Dd wont settle unless feeding or on me. I've just had a mini meltdown & dh & I are snipping at each other. He is trying his best but I just want to yell "at least you're doing it on a fucking full nights sleep!"

Hi everyone, sorry hear you are having rough nights still :(

Having the tongue tie snip has made a huge difference in bf- no pain once latched on , however freq etc is the same, but I can cope with 2 hrly feeds if they don't hurt so much!

Had one fab night where I got 2 3.4-4hrs sleep stretches, but last night was back to 2hrly. Only 8days old though so still time.

Ds use to make loads of noise early morning- building up to a morning poo. I took to wearing ear plugs to cut out the grunting so I could actually sleep!

Ds was bf for a year, and only started sleeping through (11-11hrs) when he was 15mths. I think alot of that was to do with the house we were in - it gt freezing early morning and would wake him, he was also that kind of high maintenance baby. I think it is easily explained by bf vs ff, but actually more multifactorial. Despite feeding on demand Ds was in a pattern by 6-8 weeks. Not a routine as such but a predictability to the day.

This too shall pass :)

That's meant to read 11 to 12 hours, sorry!

Sounds lovely dog, I miss living by the sea.

Dd2 just slept on me for 2 hours. We wouldn't have slept in bed so have slept.

Am so knackered. Dreading tonight. Going to have to start expressing soon so I can get a break.

Oh Bump, I do feel for you and with you! I'm in exactly the same boat. DD2 is entirely un-put-down-able and my back is killing me from hoiking her around in a sling all day whilst trying to look after DD1 (ever tried bathing a wriggly toddler with a newborn in a sling?!).

I keep fantasising about what I'd do with an hour to myself. Sadly, these fantasies generally involve things like dusting, de-hairing my legs or similarly delightful activities. I hate the feeling of getting by on the bare minimum of housework/taking care of myself activities, and bfing definitely contributes to that. Far from feeling proud that I can meet DD2's every need, I just feel overwhelmed by the responsibility.

And it's so hard not to resent DH. After a 2 hour feed-a-thon from 4-6 this morning, when DD blatantly wasn't hungry anymore but comfort feeding, I woke him, said 'your turn now' and stuck my earplugs in! He's had 3 1/2 hours of shed time this afternoon and although I'm pleased he's been able to recharge a bit, I'm just so envious!

I'm wondering about reflux. Clutching at straws perhaps, but the un-put-down-able-ness, the constant feeding/comfort sucking, the screaming in pain during feeds, the hiccuping - I do wonder...

Bf must be a big part of this though surely? I'm bf and I keep fantasising about the lovely big tin of SMA I have in the cupboard. If I was to go down that route, we could measure the feed, DP could administer it, and no painful/ time consuming expressing needed.

Also no hard sore boobs if I missed one feed.

I must admit I find it endlessly tempting. I think DP wishes I would just switch over although he praises my bf commitment every day.

If I was FF, I could hand ds to my MIL, swallow a valium and wake up 10 hours later.

I support and admire all bf mums, but I wish they told you in advance how bloody hard it is.

Its sheer bloody mindedness that keeps me bfing. plus the knowledge that eventually it will outweigh ff in terms of convenience (imo).

Am looking at special cups for cup feeding though. I need more than 3 hours straight, just once a week or so!

bloody mindedness is an important quality, I think :)

you're right, it does get easier. we used a doidy cup (available on amazon) with ds with some success, but her was a couple of months by then I think. I never really got the hang of expressing tho

babies have hardly fed today... am dreading tonight :(

Bloody mindedness here, too - every time my parents tell me that I don't need to be doing this to myself, my resolve to continue bfing strengthens! Not sure that defying your parents counts as a very good reason to bf though.

MamaChris, I am overcome with admiration for you feeding twins. Wow wow wow.

Bump, does is really have to be a cup? I found cup feeding impossible with DD1 (made for very smelly bedclothes) and I know plenty of babies who seem to manage bottle and breast just fine, even before the mystical six-week mark... Just a thought.

MorrisZapp, I agree about being given an unrealistic expectation of bfing. I think if the bf mafia spent less time telling us how easy, natural, good for your figure and spiritually fulfilling it all is and actually told us about the pain, hours involved and ucnertainty (not to mention your body hanging on to fat reserves), we'd be better prepared and feel less like failures when it's all bloody hard work. In fact, I'm considering writing some sort of publication (book seems ambitious) along the lines of myths about bfing!

I'm rambling. Does anyone else put off going to bed because it just seems so utterly pointless when you know you'll be woken again in about 2 minutes?!

Ugh. DD2 was asleep from 9-1 and then fed, screamed, fed, screamed until 6. Was only quiet when snuggled upright on my chest. Going to GP this morning to discuss reflux. Soooooo tired and rather desperate.

Hideous EC. Hope the GP is helpful. You must be knackered!

Not too bad here. Down at 11.30 up at 2.30 and 4.30 then 7.30. The worst part is in the evenings trying to get her down. Keep having false starts, think she is settled in the hammock, then no, she is awake, just when I am desperate to get to sleep.

My mum is crap on the breastfeeding too, she constantly jibes about it, and didn't do it herself. Makes me reluctant to talk to her about how things are.

As for the cup feeding, well, we used bottles happily with DD1, but had lots of problems with her not feeding properly, which in hindsight I think was reliance on bottles, she was then too impatient to wait for a letdown. So I am a bit scared of introducing bottles, especially when we still haven't got latching great yet.

Hope everyone else had a restful night. How were the DTs mamachris?

I'm a first-time mum (and new to MN) and having a total 'mare with DS, who's 3.5 weeks. He sleeps OK during the day usually (can often manage 2-3hr stretches), but all of a sudden has stopped sleeping at night, and when I say 'stopped sleeping' I mean altogether!

The last two nights he has been up until 4/5am without sleeping AT ALL - totally wired and staring round the room, eyes wide open. There are also constant bouts of screaming, head-butting and thrashing around. We've tried everything - cluster-feeding, comfort breastfeeding, white noise, rocking, pushing pram back and forth, dummy/sucking mummy's finger, low lighting, bath, massage etc. Decided to try co-sleeping last night so set up camp in spare room so DH could get some rest. Eventually gave up at 2.30am after 4.5hrs of trying to settle DS on my own, whereupon DH took over and finally managed to rock him to sleep at 4am. Guess co-sleeping only works when you can get them to go to sleep in the first place!

Am totally exhausted and tearful today. He is the most beautiful baby, so alert and full of character even at this young age, but this is so hard, it's really stopping me from enjoying him at the moment :(

Just back from GP who didn't think the crying was persistent enough to consider reflux medication. Feeling rather let down as I was so hoping for a miracle cure.

DD2 has been awake from 8 this morning until now, as I wasn't able to put her in the sling. Car seat, basket - she was so obviously tired but just couldn't settle. Now she's on me she's snuffling away and drifting off to sleep. Wish I knew whether this is an extra cuddly baby or a baby in pain.

I get the jibes from both parents, Bump. Lovely comments about being a milking machine and so on. So I don't talk to them about the bfing experience much, but they were here for a week recently and it was not exactly an avoidable issue!

Welcome to the club, CountBapula. Don't have any helpful suggestions but a lot of sympathy.

Ooh, can I join this club please?! DS (8 days old) feeds/settles/sleeps happily during the day, loves being in his carry cot (has decided moses basket is not for him) and is generally very contented and settled...then darkness descends! He refuses to stay in his carry cot and will only sleep curled up on either me or DH - ended up co-sleeping last night just to preserve my sanity :( He'll also suck on our finger for ages and settle like this but as soon as you remove the finger he screams the place down! Add this to a re-opened epi wound and a dose of the baby blues and I'm not having the best of days - good to know we're not alone but sorry for all the others going through similar experiences!

In fact, last night not too bad for us. I've no idea how many or what times dt2 woke (always impressed by those of you who can list times - can't believe you're awake enough to notice!), but I feel like I've slept, so that's positive. Think I should start worrying a little about dt1 who I don't recall feeding at all last night, and who went 6 hours without a feed this morning (she wakes, screams, sees a nipple and falls back to sleep ). But have an appt for her tongue tie on wednesday, and she's not looking dehydrated or anything, so refusing to worry till then.

sorry EC and countB for your bad nights. bumper, that is sounding like a better night - well done!

firsttimer, the first 10 days or so my dts "reverse cycled" - slept in the day, awake at night - I think it's normal and I was advised to try and make sure they got some natural light on their skin in the day (even putting the carry cot by the window) to help them adjust to life outside the womb. It seems to have helped us, at least.

We had a slightly better night last night. We topped him up with some expressed milk after the last feed, which zonked him out a bit, and put him in bed with us (swore I'd never do that, oh well!). He still woke up 4 times for feeds or lengthy rocking sessions with DH, but at least we both managed to scrape together about four hours' sleep! Still shattered though. Have since read about the three-week growth spurt and praying that's all it is ...

Hope you all had better nights!

Not read through all of this so apologies if I'm repeating someone else.

I co-slept with all mine, my friend had planned to do the same as she saw how well it worked for me, but really didn't get on with it. She bought one of these kind of things. It worked brilliantly.

Of course, she wasn't coming at it from the same point of view as you, maybe her dd would have been ok in a normal crib, but she had been co-sleeping for a week or so already, so baby was used to lots of contact, but she settled very well in this.

Hope your babies all give you some rest soon

Grrr. Have had a night of taking it in turns with DH to sleep with DD2 on our chest. Really don't want to be doing this but it was the only way of getting any sleep at all and we were utterly desperate.

Please tell me she'll grow out of this!

And another thing: She was grizzling for quite a while and I assumed she wanted milk but DH managed to settle her and she didn't deed for another 4 hours. Do other people find it hard to know what is a hungry grizzle and what isn't? I don't like the thought that I'm just shoving my boob in her general direction without really knowing what the matter is.

My DS is only 17 days but since birth has happily fed from a syringe, a cup, two kinds of bottle and both my boobs. He has no trouble with 'nipple confusion' at all, so I would have no issue with giving a cheeky formula or express top up at any age.

He knows how to latch on, but sometimes he likes to just muck about, batting it away, arching his back, screaming etc. Then he latches and sucks like a madman.

I'm told that in all honestly, bf takes 6 to 8 weeks to fully establish - by then he'll be latching first time every time, and nipples will have toughened up.

I hate wishing time away but I'm counting the days as like others here, I don't feel I can enjoy my baby with this endless boob anxiety hanging over us. I wish I could just be happy about where and when my baby's next meal will be coming from. I want to be like the mums in the adverts, cheerily enjoying a coffee while baby politely sucks from a discreetly exposed boob.

MorrisZapp, it does happen, I have been there - eventually!

'She was grizzling for quite a while and I assumed she wanted milk but DH managed to settle her and she didn't deed for another 4 hours. Do other people find it hard to know what is a hungry grizzle and what isn't? I don't like the thought that I'm just shoving my boob in her general direction without really knowing what the matter is.' Yup yup yup! Especially at night. I remember people used to say 'oh you'll learn to recognise their different cries' and feeling depressed because I never did. Much easier as a toddler. DD1 used to have this cry reserved for when she came face to face with a cat! When I was at friends houses I could always tell when the cat had come near her

Just been to the osteopath for the 3rd time (bye bye £120 - for all the sessions, not per session!). But to be fair my osteopath is fab and when he wasn't getting whatever it was he wanted to get he saw a couple of other clients then tried again when he had a break. He's not the 'oh you'll have to come for another 7 sessions type'. I'm hoping this will help with the breastfeeding, as the breastfeeding counsellor, much as I love her, didn't seem to have any practical suggestions.

I am spending most of my feeding time watching Come Dine with Me and have discovered a whole bunch of new episodes on 4 on demand. That and I listen to the Archers Omnibus on my iPhone at night

still here! at six weeks some improvement, but still no sleeps longer than 3 hours, sigh

only improvment is less awake time at night, just slightly less..

i hate people that have babies that sleep for 6 hour stretches!!!! maybe not hate, but you know what I mean

count bap, hear you! good luck tonight