Stuck in a never ending sleep regression

[PDog]

I am beyond exhausted. DD is coming up to 8.5mo and this has been going on for 2 months.

It seems to alternate between horrendous nights or horrendous days with horrendous bedtimes. She just can't switch off - I can't take my eyes off her for a second because she is not happy unless she rolling/grabbing something/putting something in her mouth.

When she does sleep, I have to feed her to sleep but as soon as I try to get her in her cot she wakes up and starts rolling.

She has only had 30 mins sleep all day today and gets more and more hyper. It then takes between 1-3 hours to get her to bed and she will be up to 2-3 times and ready to go by 6am (despite still been shattered).

Anyone offer any advice?

Or anyone in the same boat who wants to moan share experiences.

Have I scared everyone away? Are you all too to talk me now?

Don't worry - normal service resumed from Wednesday night. She has a cold now too with quite a nasty cough so am preparing for a few wake ups tonight too.

Still here. :)

Fifitot, hope things are improving a bit for you. Our 4 month regression didn't last half as long as PDog's, so you're not necessarily doomed to months of misery. We just rode it out too, and didn't do anything to fix it (although we did co-sleep so I didn't have to put DS down after feeding him).

Curly and PDog, hope you're all feeling better soon. It's miserable when you feel rough yourself.

Hope IC is okay and not overcome with exhaustion.

Not a lot to report here, other than that co-sleeping is working well (although DS still wakes & I'm still tired). Being up for long periods in the night rarely happens now. :)

DH managed to get him to nap when I went back to work (just one day a week ) which was a relief as he'd not done naps at home before.

Hi all

I'm stil here, you didn't scare me off PDog! but I was a bit at your sleep throughs.
Sorry to hear she now has a cold. O is jsut getting over hers and it's been awful (was her first one) so I don't envy you now!

Hope being back to work has been OK AD? I am going back early next yr (probably Feb) and would like to ease back in gently with one or two days a week. O will be going to nursery tho, so I hopefully wont worry about the naps as nursery staff always seem to be able to get LOs to sleep somehow

Well, I am still feeling rough and sleep around here hasn't beeen great. I can't remember the last time O spent a full night in her cot! Trouble is at the mo, my sinuses are really blocked and painful, so standing with my head over the cot to try and settle her just makes it worse - feels like my head will explode, so she has been in with me/us a lot of the time.
Last night tho, I took a leaf out of DH's book and left her with him while I went to the spare room

I can't hear her so much from there with the doors shut, but would you beleive she slept 11.30ish until 6am! She usually wakes between 2 and 3 for a feed and then DH brought her in to me to feed her and then she went back in with him and slept until 8.30! I think I will be repeating this again tonight as I had the best nights sleep I have had in 8 months

Wow, Curly, that sounds like a brill night - hope it worked again for you. But sorry to hear you're feeling rough still.

Going back to work has been fine (to my surprise). DS didn't missed me at all: he still wanted to be held by DH rather than me when I got home.

I think DS is slowly working towards only needing one nap. The time he's awake before getting tired again is getting longer, so both naps are later and he then won't go to sleep till 8 or 8.30pm (normally 7pm). I'm a bit as I like that time to myself in the evening, but I don't think he's ready for just one nap yet.

I might have to try shortening his lunchtime one a bit so he goes to bed at a reasonable hour. He's been wanting to sleep for more than 2 hours then though, so it seems as if he's tired.

Anyone seen IC? It's not like her to disappear for so long. :)

Yes Curly, hope you managed a repeat performance on Saturday.

Glad to hear your return to work has been OK AngelDog and great news that your DH manages to get DS to nap. I went out to do some Christmas shopping on Saturday, got back about 1.30pm and DD had refused to sleep, despite been up since 5.45am.

Nights not too bad - we are back to one wake up about 3am ish. The thing I am struggling with at the moment is the early morning wake ups - DD is waking anytime from 5.30am and refuses to go back to sleep. I've just got back to sleep from the 3am wake up and then she is ready to get up, despite still being tired .

Curly on the nursery front, they only manage one half hour nap out of DD each day. She is a happy little thing though and as long as she has lots to distract her, she doesn't get grumpy at nursery (just at home with me as I am boring )

I like to imagine that IC has cracked it and is too busy enjoying her time and sleep whilst her LO naps and sleeps through to MN . Although more likely she is too knackered to post.

Hi all, how's everyone doing?

PDog sounds like nights haven't been too bad for you...? sorry to hear about the early starts though! I guess the good thing once they are in nursery, it means you aren't spending the whole day worrying about naps etc on the days she is there as you aren't the one having to get her to sleep IYSWIM?

AD that's a tricky one with the dropping to one nap malarky. It was hard enough going from 3 to 2, but the next bit must be even harder as it means much more awake time (not to mention less time for yourself) doesn't it?

Well, unfortunatley we didn't get a repeat performance on Saturday night. DD woke more and DH ended up brining her in to me for a feed a couple of times not only that but I just couldn't sleep very well anyway because of my cold...

Sunday and Monday nights were awful too and I have been really struggling with the sleep deprivation on top of feeling rough. I really don't sleep as well when DD is in our bed so now I am really working on getting her to stay in her cot more (which may mean I am out of bed more, but at least I sleep deeper when I am there).

Last night we tried a different tactic of making sure she went down to bed pretty much awake (had got back into the habit of giving her a bit of a rock etc) by just keeing my hand on her until she stopped fidgeting and went to sleep - took a while but am hoping this will reduce as the nights go on.

We used the same method whenever she woke (DH on strict instructions to do the same) and it seemed to help. She needed re-settling just as we were going to bed at 10ish and then she slept until 1am. I fed her then and it took a good 30 mins to get her back to sleep, but she stayed asleep and in her cot until 5.30. That's the best we have managed in weeks!
I brought her in to me then (as DH was getting up), where she fidgeted for an hour before going back off, but then she did sleep 'till 8.30.

I think we really need to persevere with this...it all went to pot when she was having her 2-hour-awake sessions in the middle of the night, but now (hopefully) these seem to have eased off, I really need to crack the nighttimes again, as she was quite good before

Hope you are all having good sleeps?

Fifitot how are things for you?

As for IC, I did see she had commented on another thread a few days ago, so she is around. Maybe you're right Pdog, maybe she has cracked it and doesn't need this thread anymore

You guys seem to be having some ups and downs! We've been away from the internet a lot lately, thus the absence from this thread. Also, too tired and busy (with boring mundane stuff, sadly) to get on the computer...grr....what will it be like next year when back at work? Cannot even imagine how hard that will be - must.....not....panic.....

DD has had some terrible nights and some pretty bad nights and one or two almost passable nights, during which I have had imsomnia! So all round it's been a blur of sleepy eyes and short tempers. She's been very busy during the days so it's no wonder she can't sleep at night - it must be so exciting (pulling herself up now, and sitting herself up and wanting to be walking around all the time (no balance whatsoever!).

On the up side, have had some success with PUPD in the evenings. It takes longer, but she goes to sleep in her cot now, rather than on the boob. She does that again at her one hourly wake-ups after being put down in the evening, then I feed her again when I go to bed and then continue as normal through the night. Once she's settled into that routine a bit we'll introduce some PUPD in the night, if we're feeling brave. Doesn't help that we have a lot of other people in the house (flatmates), so don't want to have her crying. Am getting so desperate I may have to offer to pay for a hotel for all of them for a few nights so we can get her out of this feeding all night long lark! She seems soooo hungry though.....

Anyway, after 10pm which means must rush to bed to make the most of any feeble sleep offerings going

PDog would be interested to hear the story of your PUPD sometime experiences if you have a moment.

Hello All! Very touched to see the inquiries as to my whereabouts!

Sadly, we haven't cracked it - but we seem to have settled into a routine of those twice-nightly wake-ups and I thought I'd give you all a break as I was starting to sound like a stuck record describing them

The second wake-up, which had been a long 1hr+ resettle seems to be shortening and DD is more likely to go back in her cot without much protest and go back to sleep more quickly - or settle herself after some fidgeting.

She's been tending to wake for the day in the half hour between 06.45 and 07.15, which is fine.

So not bad, on the whole. Provided I can get to sleep by 22.00 (and don't have insomnia...), I'm getting okay amounts of sleep myself.

Sounds like you're all having your ups and downs.

I hope you're feeling better by now, curly! I LOATHE having colds, you have my sympathy, it's rubbish.

Glad the return to work hasn't been too bad for you, AD. I like the other thread you started....(the emotional one).

Kaymer, sounds like you're making some progress, although I can imagine it's at a frustrating pace...

PDog, so typical you get an early wake-up after a good night...! My DD has a tendency to wake up early if she's woken less during the night

I've been most amused by some of the posts on the "personality" thread - check it out, if you haven't already....

IC where is the 'personality' thread? I can't find it...

Here it is

Kaymer, sounds like it's not been much fun, but it's progress I guess that your DD doesn't have to feed to sleep at bedtime.

IC, glad that second resettle has shortened a bit. It always sounds to me as if your DD gets the right amount of sleep as she often seems pretty consistent

Nights have been averagely random here but still quite a lot of wakings. Feeding doesn't always settle him and he needs rocking afterwards.

I've decided to wait till the end of the 13 month regression before I work on his sleep. I want to reduce his night feeds and some day ones then to try to kick-start my fertility, as we'd like to ttc DC2 before too long. Apparently a sudden drop in feeds can get things going again even if your LO is still feeding a lot.

DS is definitely working on dropping his first nap. We started with a 2-3-4 pattern at around 7 months, then it settled at up at 6.30, naps at 9 and 1, bedtime around 7pm. Now he still wakes at 6.30, with naps at 10am and 3pm.

He wants to sleep for 2 hours at 3pm, which would mean he wouldn't be in bed till gone 9.30pm. So I'm waking him after no more than an hour, which means he's not very happy but is in bed by 8pm.

Elizabeth Pantley's advice is to stick with 2 naps for as long as you can, so I'm doing that rather than changing to one just yet. It means he's not getting quite enough sleep, but it's not so bad that it's causing early wakings or prolonged periods awake at night (yet).

It's young though - apparently only 4% of 12 month olds have just the one nap (and DS is a few weeks off 12 months). I think he just needs slightly less sleep than the average (clearly a talented boy like his mother )

DH tells me that this morning DS fell asleep on his own in a stationary pushchair.

Sound slike things have been tough for you Kaymer - insomnia when the baby is sleeping is the pits huh?!

IC things sound like they have settled down a bit for you. At least you know where you are with the 2 wakings and they are not generally hard re-settles...

AD that's tough about the naps isn't it. I found DD dropping from 3 to 2 hard enough, but the next phase of dropping to 1 must be really hard - esp when you use the nap time to do things like shower etc! I am not looking forward to DD dropping her morning nap!

Things have been OKish here. We have been remaining consistent with our bedtime routine and DD is now pretty used to being put down awake and dropping off on her own. Not sure if it's helped with the number of wakings, but she is often easier to re-settle when we use the same technique in the middle of the night

Thankfully we are having less of the awake for 2 hours rubbish, but DD is waking often and needs one of us to go in and put our hand on her to get her back off. SOme nights she appears to want 2-3 feeds too, and others she is happy with 1 i tend to think that 1-2 should be sufficient for her now so I do try to settle without a feed when possible.

It has been nice to have my bed back, and DD hasn't spent the night in there for over a week now, she does often end up there around 6am tho for a quick feed, cuddle and back to sleep until about 7.30-8.

I long for the night when she only wakes once (or not at all, but I doubt that is gonna happen at any time soon!) as the broken sleep is getting to me now. I have to go back to work in Feb so I am hoping she settles down by then, once she is well and truly out of this 9month regression.

Fifitot how are you getting on?

Your DS has exactly the same napping pattern as my DD, ADog.... One thing about DD needing to be in the moving buggy is we can easily control the time she wakes up - so even if she's looking like she'll sleep on after 16.00 (or 11.30), the simple act of parking the buggy to open our front door causes her to wake up fairly painlessly...

Ooh, we're planning on ttc again soon too, AD...! Good luck. Like me, you'll be praying for a second baby who's a champion sleeper...

Yep, DD has needed 10.5 hours of sleep per night for as long as I can remember, now. She does tend to be consistent in that way. I can usually predict whether she'll resettle quickly or not and whether she'll wake earlyish or not as a result.
Mind you, MN jinx strikes again - one longish resettle per night for the last two - but later morning wake-ups.

DD's also getting tougher to settle at bedtime, a bit over-hyped. Could be the second half of the 9moSR rearing its head - we're just about heading into it....

I've reset her bedtime routine so supper is half an hour earlier giving her longer to burn off the energy after her bath and am now incorporating a story (although she's more interested in grabbing the book at the moment )as a bit of quiet time pre-feed.

She went down better tonight, but that may have been because her last nap was half its usual length and finished half an hour earlier....

Sounds like progress, curly! Fingers crossed....

It's very handy for me, IC, as it means I can sometimes do a first nap in the pushchair (before, his first nap was too early) - it means it's easier to get shopping done. He only sleeps for half an hour then, so I'm never 'stuck' out when I don't want to be. But sadly he needs more nighttime sleep than that pattern gives him - and waking in the afternoon is rarely painless. DH ended up giving DS Calpol yesterday he was so upset about it. A bit of bf when I came home from work fixed it all though.

Yes, I'm definitely putting in a request for a better sleeper for no 2!

Curly, glad things have improved a bit.

Better dash - got to go & wake DS.

SOrry to hear you are having to wake DS AD and that he's not very happy about it. I was always told never to wake a sleeping baby, but I guess if they are not going to sleep at night if they sleep too long then you just have to huh?

So the MN curse struck you too huh IC - that always happens to me!! Sorry to hear about the long re-settles - we had one of those last night, but like your DD, she also slept thru until 8am afterwards (and she only woke once for a feed) so that was nice for me

AD I know you are a big fan of the Wonder Weeks book, but something in it has managed to confuse/intrigue me... It says at the end of the 37wk spurt that weeks 40-45 will bring relative calm again, but then at the beginning of the next chapter it says that the fussy period for the wk46 spurt will generally start at wk 42 or between 40 and 44 - not sure if I am missing something here but it seems to be contradicting itself! I know these 2 sppurts are close together, so maybe that's why, but I have found a couple of anomalies like this in the book. Just wondered if you had too or if it's just me being

Also, I remember you saying once before that your DS used to self settle for naps and then suddenly stopped doing it and you had to rock him. DD has done this too - she self settled beautifully in her cot from 5.5 - 7.5 months but now she wont and I have to rock her in the pram to get her off (she wont even really take her naps in the cot any more) - I just wondered if your DS 'got it' again eventually.

Sorry for all the questions - hope you all had a good night last night.

Yes, AD, the longer gap between naps is great, isn't it?! So much easier to have a routine that works for both of us, that way.

Can't help on the nap front, curly, except to say DD has never self-settled for naps and as you probably know, I now don't bother to try and get her to sleep in the cot for naps as she gets a better rest in the buggy. The sleep regressions often hit naps, I understand...

I'm wondering if my DD's increasing mobility (she's just started crawling, although doesn't do it all that much yet) will cause her to nap better, possibly not needing the moving buggy in time...? Once she's burning up more physical energy, I'll probably try sticking her in the cot again to see how it goes.

I know naps are different beasts, but it still befuddles me slightly that DD will self-settle pretty well in her cot at bedtime and overnight, but throws a big strop if I dare to try and get her to take a daysleep in there.

Mind you, I've been doing a lot of putting DD in the cot with toys during the day (usually because I need it as a temporary playpen) in the hope that it will give her good associations with the environment ready for when I feel up to trying again to get her napping in there. (I obviously won't fill it with toys when I want her to sleep!)

Interestingly, we've just had two nights on the trot with only one overnight wake-up (long-ish resettles, though - and this morning started a bit earlier than I'd like, but hey...), which is interesting. She's also going down better with the new pre-bedtime routine.

Curly, I had sort of noticed something like that in the Wonder Weeks, but hadn't really looked closely at the details. Maybe it's because some babies have more of a gap between the two spurts, whereas for others they run together. IMO it depends on how long before the spurt their sleep gets messed up, and also whether they go back to previous patterns once the spurt is over (good sleepers) or whether frequent waking patterns persist (poor sleepers).

Can't remember if it's in the book but there's a timeline of it here on page 101 (page 112 in the pdf document).

On self-setting for naps, DS doesn't ever seem to have got the hang of it again, although I've not particularly tried to get him to do it. He only did it for a short while though - maybe only for a week, IIRC. It stopped when I stopped swaddling, so I don't know if that was what made the difference. Generally if I put him down before he's asleep now, he gets up and stands in his cot. But again, that could just be a phase because standing up is still relatively new and exciting for him. .

Glad you got a longer stretch last night even if you were up for a bit.

IC, I do find that when DS is particularly tired he drops off much more easily. He only slept for 45 mins today and was racing around at a friend's Christmas party this afternoon, and wanted to fall asleep in the car within about 1 min of the engine starting, which is most unusual (often he won't sleep in the car at all). On other occasions when he's been worn out he's gone to sleep much faster & more easily. Hopefully your DD will be the same.

I've decided not to wait till January to start working on DS's sleep (and reducing his day feeds slightly) - we're starting TODAY. So the PUPD will commence (but not at bedtime) and he's relegated to his cot for the time being.

I only had to pick him up once at the first waking but he is shattered after the day's excitement so I don't set too much store by that.

I don't relish having to get properly up in the night, though - I've got used to having to jiggle him in a comatose co-sleeping kind of a way.

I'll let you all know how it goes!

Best of luck, AngelfromtherelamsofgloryDog (not quite as snappy as your non-seasonal handle )

Hi

sorry I got sidetracked on another sleep related thread and forgot to post!
Glad to see some of you have had progress. I have not! Early part of night DS isn't so bad, bed at 7 and then 9.30 feed, then around 11.30-12 and then after that is anyones's guess! Is doing 2.5 hours roughly between feeds but hates settling in his cot afterwards which drags things out! He was wide awake at 4am the other night - ugh.

I am going to work on his sleep after xmas and am starting to slowly wean him so I know it isn't hunger that is waking him. He will be 6m at end of Dec so it's not really too early.

Yeah, it's a bit of a mouthful.

First PUPD-induced sleep lasted...ooh, 4 minutes. It took a bit longer on the second attempt. If he's not crying but just cross (rubbing his eyes and waving his head around), I'm rocking him to the point where he stops doing that and first puts his head on my chest, but before he's properly asleep.

(Don't worry, I shan't post about every resettle.

Thanks AFTROGD - do you mind if we keep your old acronym as that's also a bit of a mouthful/pain to type/!!!

I think DDs problem with the self settling is not helped by a) she has started crawling this week and wants to practice in her cot at every oppportunity and b) now she can pull herself up, she keeps doing so but manaes to bump her head on the cot bars (she's still quite unstable) and then the crying ensues.

IC it will be interesting to see whether either of our DDs sleep better now they are on the move...

I agree, Curly - I wouldn't be able to remember it myself!

I found it took quite a while before crawling tired DS out more. He's been on the move since 9 months, but it's taken till now (11 months) for him to be able to put some speed and effort into it.

I agree that learning new skills makes it harder. When DS decided he didn't want to be swaddled any more it was because he was starting to try to roll. So every time I put him down, he'd try to roll over. It could have been that which stopped the self-settling rather than the lack of swaddling. Who knows, eh?

Hmm, we'll have to start again tonight on DS's sleep. He woke around midnight, wouldn't settle, had bad wind and was really hungry. I nearly fell asleep feeding in the chair and by 1.15am I just wanted my bed so I took him with me and he settled really quickly. He only woke once more though so not a bad night all round.

I had a rotten night and won't bore you with the details suffice to say I am sooooooo knackered.

The whole family is suffering and it has to change.

How many night feeds does a 5month old really need and not talking comfort I mean calories? I really don't know how to go on with this torture. I can't even put him in the bed anymore as he is just as unsettled there.

It's not teeth, maybe a bit of wind but not too much. I just don't believe he needs 5 or 6 feeds after 10pm.

Does he actually take much when he feeds overnight, fifitot?

I suspect he's come to rely on a BF to get himself back to sleep when he wakes - which is exactly what my DD was doing at that age.

I stuck it out until she was 7.5 months, then did a little sleep training to try and encourage her to self-settle.

It didn't get her sleeping through (not my aim, anyway), but it did reduce the night-wakings dramatically from 5 minimum to 2-3 and nowadays (at 10.5 months) 1-2.

I wouldn't personally do sleep training on a 5 month-old, but I'm afraid I can't offer any other suggestions at this stage - apart from to say maybe stick it out for just a little bit longer, then when he's over the six month mark, maybe try some sleep-training of some sort....?

Poor you, it's tough isn't it? Sending you massive sympathy vibes....