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Stuck in a never ending sleep regression

470 replies

PDog · 24/08/2010 21:24

I am beyond exhausted. DD is coming up to 8.5mo and this has been going on for 2 months.

It seems to alternate between horrendous nights or horrendous days with horrendous bedtimes. She just can't switch off - I can't take my eyes off her for a second because she is not happy unless she rolling/grabbing something/putting something in her mouth.

When she does sleep, I have to feed her to sleep but as soon as I try to get her in her cot she wakes up and starts rolling.

She has only had 30 mins sleep all day today and gets more and more hyper. It then takes between 1-3 hours to get her to bed and she will be up to 2-3 times and ready to go by 6am (despite still been shattered).

Anyone offer any advice?

Or anyone in the same boat who wants to moan share experiences.

OP posts:
fifitot · 16/12/2010 19:06

Thanks for the sympathy vibes. I do think he is reliant on BFing but also he does some quite hungry so hard to tell.

I am definately going for some sort of sleep training after xmas when he will be 6 months. As soon as he is on 3 meals a day I will know he is not hungry and will start it. He may not like it at the time (!) but as a family we need to have some sleep!

Just living through a fog of fatique at the moment and that's no good for anyone!

PDog · 16/12/2010 20:55

More sympathy from me Fifitot. My DD was similar at that age iirc - things did get better at 6mths though so if you can hang on in there you might find things will get better .

Liking the festive name ADog Xmas Grin. Good luck with the sleep training - I am planning something similar myself over Christmas when I don't have to worry about work.

IC DD didn't start crawling until she was 11mo but got the hand of it pretty quickly. Her naps have improved, some days I have had to wake her she has slept for an hour in the morning and over 2 hours in the afternoon Xmas Shock Xmas Shock.

No help with self settling Curly. DD is totally reliant on boob - not great as I had intended to stop bf at 12mo. She also stopped about 7mo I think. Think it was caused by teething but she has never gone back. She also can't self settle at night. We have been trying to put her down awake but it results in lots of crying and is impossible on nursery days as she is so shattered she falls asleep really quickly.

Not doing too badly here - we have been quite busy as DD was one last week Shock. She is still only waking once a night but the last 2 nights have been loooong resettles. Not great for me as I have 3 parties this week so am shattered. Early night I think.

OP posts:
curlyLJ · 16/12/2010 21:55

Oh Fifitot that sounds awful I remember that I was at the end of my tether when DD was that age too. It really does pass, just hang in there...

Hope the sleep training goes better tonight AD

Wow Pdog that is some napping there from Ppup - I long for DD to get back into having those looong afternoon naps. Sorry to hear about the long re-settles at night tho - DD was doing that quite a lot up until recently and it is so draining.

Well....we had a really good night here last night, some might even consider it a sleep-thru Xmas Shock. DD went to bed at 8pm, woke at midnight but wouldn't settle without boob, but then slept from 12.30ish (didn't check the time she went back down but it wasn't long) and then we didn't hear a peep out of her until 7.40! Xmas Grin I was soooo pleased.

I really needed the decent sleep as I am not feeling great again - having finally getting rid of my cold I have now got bad cysitis which is not going on its own so need a trip to the docs tomorrow for some ABs me-thinks.
Need to get it sorted as I too am off to a party tomorrow night and then we are off to the Canaries on Monday for Xmas.

Am hoping for a repeat performance tonight. At the risk of being struck by the Mumsnet jinx, she seems to be settling herself much better throughout the night now that we are not rocking her to sleep at bedtime anymore. Occasionally I hear her cry out but she is going back off herself within a few mins. Hopefully this means we are through 'Part I' of the 9-month regression

wishing restful nights to all...

AngelsfromtherealmsofgloryDog · 17/12/2010 22:40

More sympathy again, fifitot (although my DS didn't start doing that till 6 months).

Go, babyCurly! Xmas Grin Sorry to hear you're not feeling well though Curly.

PDog, glad naps have been better.

The sleep programme isn't going entirely to plan. DS has been shattered after so little daytime sleep & a busy few days. So he's stayed asleep through the evening Grin. When he wakes I'm too tired to care and take him straight into bed for a feed. After that I've managed to feed him less, and just bounce him when he wakes. OTOH I've been too dopey to attempt PUPD so I've spent the last part of the night with him asleep face down on my chest while I sleep on my back. Hmm

I think the only way to get my sleep plan to work is if I can leave him in his cot, or else I don't wake up enough to put it into action. But it's so tempting just to take him into bed when I'm half asleep. I may change my mind about working on the sleep for now! Wink

He's seemed very tired in the day so I went back to the old nap schedule and he slept 30 mins + 2 hours again today. Grin I think I need to be more flexible with when he naps, but it's hard to 'go with the flow' when it's difficult to interpret his tired signs.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 18/12/2010 18:53

Ah, just do what feels best for you, Angel! If you're getting more sleep (and he is) when he's in bed with you, so be it.

I couldn't do it that way because neither DD nor I are particularly good at co-sleeping, but if you can sleep with him on you or by you, then fair do's, I say!

I know what you mean about interpreting tired signs. DD doesn't exhibit them much now - eye-rubbing doesn't necessarily mean she's tired. And while she might get whingey, even that isn't reliable. She often gets sleepy on the boob ahead of her nap schedule, but I know full well if I let her fall asleep, she'll do ten mins or so, then wake up and that'll be that. So I prefer to make sure she goes the full 3 hours or so between sleeps, unless she's had a truly horrendous night (thankfully rare at the moment....)

Good luck for tonight!

Likewise PDog, curly and fifitot Xmas Smile

fifitot · 18/12/2010 19:23

I am so tired and am trying something different tonight. When DS wakes at 9 which he invariably will, DH is going to give him a bottle of formula. DS won't usually take it but I am so confused as to whether he is hungry or not that was thinking if he takes it it might show it is hunger that is waking him.

He may still reject it and cause chaos of course but this is the 9 pm feed so at least it's a reasonable hour. We shall see........

Good luck all!

AngelsfromtherealmsofgloryDog · 20/12/2010 11:19

How'd it go, fifitot?

I've officially given up for now. I don't know that we're getting more sleep by sticking with co-sleeping, but I really can't summon up the energy / adrenaline to get myself to wake up enough to deal with DS in a different way. He's been unsettled and doing a lot of sleeping on my chest, although it does tend to make me ache afterwards.

Something funny is going on though. After showing signs of dropping the first nap and only getting sleepy at 10am and 3pm, he's gone back to 9.30 and 1.30pm. He still seems really tired though; he's grumpier than usual and has bags under his eyes.

He's consistently sleeping straight through the evening which I think is exhaustion rather than getting better at staying asleep, if the chaos in the second part of the night is anything to judge by. Some days he doesn't want to go to bed till late, but others he is screaming by bedtime. Yesterday I woke him up after 2.5 hours for his lunchtime nap and this morning he slept for 1.5 hours instead of 30 mins. Xmas Shock

At first I thought he was a bit worn out after being busy but it seems to be going on too long for that. Xmas Confused I don't think he's ill, and he might be teething but it's not had that sort of effect on him before. I suppose it could be growth spurt related, but he's not been feeding/eating more than usual. They like to keep us on our feet, don't they? Xmas Grin

fifitot · 20/12/2010 12:29

It failed Angels. Didn't post as too depressed about the situation! I am also on too many sleep threads tbh. Makes me feel better if I moan about it though.

Am trying the bottle again today. If I can't get sleep I want to be able to share feeding with DH at least - of course DS has different ideas.

I too some photos of the kids yesterday, some with me on..........God what a terrible haggard sight I am even with makeup and my hair combed! I can't go on like this.

He was up 5 times in the night. At first it was 9.30, then 12.30 which isn't bad (3 hours) but then it went to 2, 3, 4 and 5.15 - hourly. Ridiculous. he wouldn't settle without a BF and frankly I am sick of it. I get quite resentful of him too in those nightfeeds, really quite cross. I don't want to feel like this but so exhausted.

Someone on another thread suggested a sleep clinic for help and I am considering it.

I hope things get better for you.

AngelsfromtherealmsofgloryDog · 20/12/2010 13:24

:( fifitot

As other people said, I'm sure the frequent feeding is about comfort rather than nutrition.

I've probably asked this before, but how are his naps? I only ask because sleeping for longer stretches, then waking more frequently can be due to overtiredness (it often is in my DS). IME only settling with bf can be due to overtiredness (although lots of babies do have that problem when not overtired).

I'm going to think again about DS's sleep once he's better rested and waking in the evening again. I've always found it easiest to work on evening wakings - when they improve, he often gets easier to settle in the middle of the night too.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 20/12/2010 19:19

Aw fifitot Sad - poor you, sounds really rough. Nothing to add really, except sympathy.

Likewise, I hope things settle down for you too, Angel.

I'm sure when we look back it'll seem like this period of sleeplessness was over in the blink of an eye, but it feels like forever when in the middle of it....

As for my DD...after a couple of months of waking twice or even once (with the long resettle) she's suddenly switched to three overnight wakings, although settles quicker after I've fed her, so total awake time is probably no more than before.
I'm wondering if it's Part Two of the 9moSR seeing as she's just turned 43 weeks (corrected). She cruised through Part One, her sleep even improved, but I guess it couldn't last forever.

I was just getting used to my total sleep nudging 6+ hours, but never mind. If this is as bad as the 9moSR is going to get, then that's okay.

fifitot · 20/12/2010 19:27

Naps aren't bad. Does 3, a short 30min one about 9 am, up to 2 hours at lunchtime and another 45 min one around 4-4pm. He mainly naps in his pram if we are out and about but if at home, nods off after a feed - typical!

AngelsfromtherealmsofgloryDog · 20/12/2010 21:18

Yes, fifitot, that sounds like pretty good naps to me.

IC, well glad she's settling faster even if you are up more often. Keep going with the brave face. Grin

Even after DS's huge nap this morning, we still had to wake him after 2 hours at lunchtime. Confused He must still be tired though as he's slept past the first 45 mins this evening.

PDog · 20/12/2010 21:54

More sympathy from Fifitot. I'm crap with the practical advice but if it makes you feel better I have also felt fed up and resentful at various points. Just when I've been at the end of my tether and ready to give bf, things have improved. Hope you have more luck tonight.

AngelDog know the feeling, it is so hard to keep your resolve in the middle of the night when you are shattered, isn't it?

I've also had to wake a DD a few times from naps. As you know, she has never been a good napper but recently seems to want to sleep for England. I'm wondering if it is an age thing, maybe now she is mobile and her body and brain are both working hard, she needs the sleep.

IC that doesn't sound too bad. Hope you don't end up with long resttles as that can be a killer.

Well we have had 2 proper sleep throughs this weekend, of the 12-hour variety. DD has a cold and is very congested and also has a bad case of conjunctivitis so think it is more to do with her being ill than anything else. I would happily trade the sleep throughs if it meant she was better. Sad

OP posts:
InmaculadaConcepcion · 21/12/2010 08:14

Aw, PDog, hope Ppup feels better soon (but keeps those sleep-through habits...)

Naps were both truncated yesterday - 40 and 35 mins respectively, instead of around an hour each. DD woke 40mins after bedtime, but resettled after a 5 min cuddle. Then 02.10, feed, quick resettle, 06.00. I thought that was it, but she wanted to go back to sleep, so she snoozed for another 20 mins, woke again, fed again, then about 07.00, back to sleep again for 30mins Confused.
I'm not knocking it, though. It wasn't a bad night.

I'm starting to wonder whether we're giving DD too much daytime sleep, seeing as she almost always sleeps better overnight when she's had less. She does the early evening wake-up, which suggests she's a bit overtired, but she usually goes back down with a quick bit of reassurance...

Oh, I don't know.....!

How was the rest of the night, Angel?

fifitot · 21/12/2010 09:51

Why is it that they wake 45 mins after first going off to sleep at bedtime? Mine does this regularly.

BF then bed half asleep at 6.30 last night. Woke at 9, tried to settle without a feed, put up with tons of crying so finally fed him and settled him at 10.30pm!

He then slept until 1.45 which isn't bad but then 3.30 - both times I fed him, put him down and within 10mins he was awake again but instead of feeding I settled him in cot. This was hard as it was bloody freezing standing there over him. He likes his arms held down for some reason, the flailing of them bothers him I think. Wish he was still small enough to swaddle as think he would like it.

He slept then from 4 until 6.30 when DD woke him up! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Didn't feel quite so bad last night for some reason.

Going to relatives for xmas so any progress might be out the window anyway.

Keep posting your stories ladies though - it's nice to share our horror stories - keeps me sane!

AngelsfromtherealmsofgloryDog · 21/12/2010 21:39

:( for your DD, PDog. Maybe the longer naps are an age and mobility thing, as DS is doing it much more than he used to, and he's only a few weeks younger than your DD.

He's still looking tired today. He had a normal first nap and we had to wake him after 2 hours at the second, although it was later than usual. He didn't go to sleep till nearly 9pm tonight - late for him

The night was okay ta, IC - DS woke shortly after I got to bed (normal) and not too many times after that, although he was on my chest again at the end. I think I could manage to get him off my chest and back next to me if I waited till he was fast enough asleep, but I tend to drop off first.

fifitot, if I had your DS, I would try swaddling. Seriously. DS was swaddled till 5 or 5.5 months, and I only stopped because he suddenly decided he hated it. Before that, he really struggled to stay asleep due to the flailing arms. (I tried to wean him off it twice before, but he'd wake 8/9 times a night vs only once or twice when swaddled.)

You can get swaddle blankets for bigger babies - something like the Peke Moe or Woombie might do, and can be used as more of a sleeping bag once the flailing settles down. I know someone who still swaddled their toddler's arms for naps till he was almost 2 years, I think. He loved it!

Babies wake after 45 mins because it's the end of the first sleep cycle. That first cycle (and nap cycles) are usually 45 mins, whereas for the rest of the night, sleep cycles are usually 1.5 - 2 hours long. Sometimes waking after that first cycle is developmental - DS started it during the 4 month regression but it stopped again afterwards.

Sometimes it's to do with not being able to settle themselves between sleep cycles - which is why my DS has usually been waking then since about 6 months or so. I've found it to be the most predictable of all DS's wakings and the hardest to eradicate.

But I also found that settling him without a feed at that waking meant I was much more likely to be able to settle without a feed at future wakings. If I lurked and patted him as he stirred after 45 mins, there was even some chance he might not wake after the next cycle. Likewise, that's the time PUPD is most effective for me (I'm not prepared to try it at bedtime as it would involve him crying). Dunno if that's just one of his quirks or whether there's some biological reason for that waking having an effect on the rest of the night.

IC, I find that if DS is overtired he doesn't wake after 45 mins because he's so shattered - I know other people's DC are the same. So I'd guess that in your DD's case, it's the 9mSR to blame for it rather than overtiredness.

You could certainly have a go at shortening one of her naps - maybe the first one and see if it gives you better nights. You might need to bring her second nap (and bedtime) a bit earlier though. According to Helen Ball from the Sleep Lab in Durham, it's total sleep that matters (although according to the sleep books, not being awake for too long between naps is important too).

She does seem to need less total sleep than some babies, and I wonder whether getting more of that at night might mean she found it easier to stay asleep in a non-moving pram in the day? That's pure speculation though. Wink If she did have more sleep at night & less in the day, at least you could rest a bit more rather than having to pound the streets.

I'm always too cautious with changes but actually I think it's fine to try something different for a few days and go back to the previous system if it doesn't help.

I'm wondering myself what to do about DS's tiredness - bedtime is creeping later but his naps are currently good. But he gets hysterical when woken from his second nap if he wants to sleep more - bf is the only thing which will calm him then, which is a bit :( if DH is looking after him.

AngelsfromtherealmsofgloryDog · 21/12/2010 21:40

Oops, that was a bit of an essay! Xmas Blush

fifitot · 22/12/2010 09:21

No that essay was great! I did try swaddling recently but he's so big! I will look those blankets up because I agree I think he will like his arms fixed down as he settles when I do this for him. Thanks Angels.

Not a bad night last night slept 7.30-10.30, woke at 2, then 4 then up at 6. Did a couple of big naps in the day. Thats a bit more manageable for me but if he could drop the 2am feed it would be heaven!!!

InmaculadaConcepcion · 22/12/2010 19:33

Glad you had a better night, fifitot!

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts about my DD and her sleep patterns, Angel!
Like you, I find I can usually settle DD without a feed and a bit of PU/PD if she wakes after her first sleep cycle. And yes, she'll often do a decent stretch after that.

I think you're right about DD needing less total sleep - as long as she gets around 12 hours or so in each 24, she seems to be fine. And in general, if she gets less at night, she'll nap for longer in the day and she'll sleep for longer at night if she doesn't have enough sleep during the day.

Last night we had two wake-ups (00.15 and 03.30) before she decided to wake for the day at 05.45 Confused which is early for her. But then she napped for longer than usual for both her naps, so there we are.

After the Xmas break (we're off to my mum's tomorrow - a marathon drive, could be interesting.... Hmm ) I'll take stock of where we are and see about tinkering with the routine. Or maybe once Week 46 has passed and we're (hopefully) through the 9moSR...

Wish I could offer you helpful advice for your DS, Angel - but I think you know everything there is to know about baby sleep now Xmas Smile

May you all have a restful (if possible) Christmas - or manage to keep exhaustion at bay to enjoy it, anyway!

PDog · 23/12/2010 20:33

Well DD is obviously feeling better as night wakings have resumed. Just the one between 2-3am though so I'm not complaining too much.

DH and I now feel dreadful though - hoping we feel better tomorrow.

Wishing you all a happy and restful Christmas.

OP posts:
InmaculadaConcepcion · 30/12/2010 18:45

How was your Christmas, fellow Eyebag Clubbers?

Anyone get a decent night's kip from FC?

We went away to my mum's, so not surprisingly, some extra night wakings from DD because of the change. And more again now we're back. But all bearable.

I've ditched my old resolution not to do sleepy breastfeeds and have taken to bringing DD into bed with me and letting her stay latched on if she wants to if she wakes 05.00 plus. This way I'm getting SOME extra sleep and DD will consent to lie in until gone 07.30. Whereas, trying to resettle her in her cot at that sort of hour would take ages and I usually didn't get back to sleep.

So, sod it - it doesn't seem to affect her ability to go back in her cot earlier in the evening or have any effect on her buggy naps (and indeed, car and sling-naps - both newly re-introduced napping situations she was fine with over Xmas).

Here's to a more restful 2011!

curlyLJ · 30/12/2010 19:10

Hi all

Hope you all had a good Christmas? We went to Gran Canaria so was nice to have some warmth and sunshine - if only for 7 days!

Have just been trying to catch up and see what's been happening... Fifitot sorry to hear you are still having a hard time - here's hoping the new year rings some more restful nights for you.

The nap situation doesn't seem to be improving much for you AD does it. I rarely have to wake DD from a nap, but on the odd occasion that I have, it's not been too unpleasant at all. Hope DS settles into a better routine for you soon.

PDog hope you are feeling better?

IC I totally agree with going with whatever gets you the most sleep, and if that means sleepy BFeeds then so be it. It's interesting what you say about her sleep being disrupted while you were away...I found we had the opposite problem as DD slept much better. Not sure if it was the warmth, the fact that she was going to bed later, or that it was a break in the 'old' routine, but whatever it was I liked it Grin

Since we have been home things are not so great as DD has a stomach bug and isn't well at all. We even ended up in A&E the other night as her temp was so high. SHe seems to e on the mend, but it's skuppered our plans to go and visit friends with their new ay over NY as I can't risk her passing it on Sad

Hope you all have a great NY and see you all in 2011.

curlyLJ · 30/12/2010 19:13

I seem to have a problem with my 'b' key - that was meant to say new baby not ay Blush

InmaculadaConcepcion · 31/12/2010 17:06

Thanks for all your support this year, fellow Sleepless Mums... and for putting up with my tedious detailing of DD's every wakeful moment...

You've all been great! Smile

Happy New Year and may 2011 be more restful for all of us....

harverina · 31/12/2010 20:42

Hi all I hope you don't mind me joining you. I am feeling at the end of my tether tonight. I feel like I can't really complain because I know my dd sleeps alot better than other babies.
My dd is almost 9 months old. The problems we have are that:

  • we feed to sleep.
  • bedtime is a bit hit and miss due to feeding to sleep.
It seems so trivial but I am fed up not knowing what time my dd will be in bed by. The last couple of days have been particularly bad but my dd is teething so I am putting it down to this. However I just wish that we could have some idea of bed time. We have a good routine, I think...bath, jammies, book, feed. We have stuck to this routine since my dd was tiny. We don't do the Story if my dd seems really tired. Some nights my dd will be in bed for 7.30pm, but other times she will still be latched on at 9pm. Most of the time, after the first 15 minutes my dd is only doing butterfly sucks but if I try and get her off she howls. I have tried the pantley pull off method and it initially worked but even that doesnt seem to be working just now. I would love to be able to put my dd in her cot awake but she just screams if we do that. I know that she can self settle if she is tired enough as quite often during the night she goes back into her cot awake but sleepy. During the day my dd will generally nap for an hour in the mornin and 1-2 hours in the afternoon. I do wonder if her second nap is too late as sometimes he doesn't nap until after 3? My dd usually wakens up once during the night. She has a quick feed and back to bed with no issue. I'm sorry for the jumbled post, I'm just so fed up with bedtimes. My dh is walking the floor with my dd just now. Last night she didn't fall asleep until almost midnight! I purpose I'm looking for advice on how to improve bedtimes. I don't mind the during the night feed. Its very quick and quite oven she will not waken until after 4am for her first feed.
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