Stuck in a never ending sleep regression

[PDog]

I am beyond exhausted. DD is coming up to 8.5mo and this has been going on for 2 months.

It seems to alternate between horrendous nights or horrendous days with horrendous bedtimes. She just can't switch off - I can't take my eyes off her for a second because she is not happy unless she rolling/grabbing something/putting something in her mouth.

When she does sleep, I have to feed her to sleep but as soon as I try to get her in her cot she wakes up and starts rolling.

She has only had 30 mins sleep all day today and gets more and more hyper. It then takes between 1-3 hours to get her to bed and she will be up to 2-3 times and ready to go by 6am (despite still been shattered).

Anyone offer any advice?

Or anyone in the same boat who wants to moan share experiences.

That's the thing, isn't it - you sit there tossing up between total hours slept, and then gaps between sleep. And I can't really workout what's best there for myself, never mind a baby.

Great, Lenin.

I just looked up the developmental spurt that causes the 9 month regression and worked out when DS is likely to hit it. It's in early December.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that our nap issues are developmental since rocking to sleep isn't enough and I have to frantically jiggle him instead. When he's been working on developmental spurts before, rocking didn't work, only feeding did. It's a shame that feeding to sleep generally doesn't work for naps any more.

(Definitely off to bed now!)

Glad your nights haven't been too bad AngelDog.

DD decided to give me a break and sleep from midnight until 6.30am .

Naps not been great today but she went to bed easily, which was great as took 2 hours last night.

Hab can I please ask how, on earth, do you manage to get in the cot with your DC?

Um - it's next to the bed, with the drop side on bed side, iyswim? So side down, climb in and head next to him. I'm quite small...

Midnight to 6:30???? Wow.

, PDog

Must have been something in the air. DS had his longest sleep for ages - 10.30 - 4.00. :)

Unfortunately he wanted to be up fo the day then, but I did eventually get him back off at 5.45.

Morning everyone and welcome Habbibu and Lenin

Sorry to hear things have not been great for you all. Although nice to hear PDog & AD managed to get some nice long stretches of sleep recently!

Things seem to be going from bad to worse in terms of nighttime sleep for us...and DD still doing this waking up after 45 mins and not resettling thing. Last night we tried leaving her to cry/scream for short bursts as previously we have resorted to feeding again or bringing her downstairs and I don't want that to become a habit! Didn't work though, she ended up working herself up into a right old state and I ended up picking her up to calm her down and then putting her back in and leaning right in the cot stroking her face/rubbing her back until she dropped off.

She then slept until 12.30 (which wasn't too bad - original bedtime 7.15 and awake from 8-9) but she then woke at 2.30, 4.30, 6.30 but I did manage to get her back off in bed with me at 7ish for another blissful 50 mins - just wasn't ready to get up at 7

I still think a lot of it is developmental as I found her on her front and up on her arms making 'frustrated grunts' each time I went in but I also think the waking after 1 sleep cycle could be this thing where 3 naps seem to be too many and 2 naps not really enough. If I take her for a pram walk late afternoon, she will usually drop off (as long as the lunchtime nap wasn't too long) but it means she then doesn't get to bed until really late...

On a positive note (I like to end on a positive) the daytime naps have been fine and she has been managing a 45 min morning nap, a 1.5-2hr post-lunch, and sometimes a 30min catnap about 5ish. I could just do with a bit more nighttime sleep myself (or at least a strecth of sleep that is longer than 1.5 hrs!)

Hi - have been reading this thread with interest, especially all the good advice from Angeldog at the start. I wondered if you might be able to advise me, though my DS is a lot younger than your LOs - 10 weeks.

From what I have read he's too young for a napping schedule and I should put him down when he's tired - though I seem to be unable to figure out when this is! It also takes a long time to get him to sleep - usually I hold him and shush him til he sleeps but then transferring him to the cot is tricky and he often wakes up or just has a short nap (half hour). Putting him down awake does not seem to work at all, or putting him down sleepy - he seems to instantly wake up!

He does sleep well in the sling so I do take him out for an hour or 2 a day in it so that he sleeps. He seems unable to sleep in his buggy though and just gets bored / tired and cries!

In the nights, he feeds to sleep every 2 - 3 hours, though I have just started to try to unlatch him before he falls asleep. We co-sleep so think he has developed a strong sucking to sleep association already! I've tried a dummy for naps but he does not get on with it. He does fall asleep at the breast in the day, but never a deep sleep or one that can lead to a sleep in his cot.

Sorry to hijack the thread with a different set of issues but there seems to be a lot of experience about sleep in this thread and I wondered if there was any advice any of you thought would help with his naps and sleep generally?

Curly, you might find this interesting on the 45 min thing - I found the comments interesting too.

Sounds like it is a developmental thing with babies doing it at 4 months, 13 months and when working on new skills. I'd guess she's working on pushing up / rolling / thinking about crawling.

RaisingMrC, I think at that age putting them down awake or drowsy doesn't work for many babies so I wouldn't worry about that. Short naps are normal too.

More info on short naps here and here. Again, I find reading the comments very reassuring.

My DS wouldn't sleep anywhere but the sling at 10 weeks during the day, although he started to feed to sleep at night around 11 weeks IIRC. By 15 weeks I could rock him & then put him down fast asleep, then he learnt to feed to sleep in the day, which was WONDERFUL.

I found it hard to interpret DS's tired signs too. A good rough rule of thumb at that age is to try soothing to sleep after being awake for an hour and a half.

Swaddling might help with being able to put him down if you're not already doing it.

Several of us on this thread know each other from a 'challenging 3 month olds' thread so know how frustrating it is. (And before you despair, quite a few of those babies are sleeping really well now .) It often improves a bit after 3-4 months.

This is a really good site which lists the predictable developmental spurts up to 55 weeks and explains what's going on in them. Of course, babies have other times when they're working on new skills too.

curly and lenin, sorry to hear about your bad nights.

curly, why is it when day sleep gets better night sleep gets worse and vice versa? Why can't our sleep-fighting babies do both better sometime...? (clue's in the name...)

PDog, AD, good stuff - we had a longer stretch too - 5.5hours from bedtime until 00.45, which was a relief. She then woke twice more before getting up time at 07.30 (although the last one at 05.40 took three resettles before she went back properly).
Still, overall much better and I got an okayish amount of sleep too.

Hi RaisingMrC - I read your other thread.
I echo AD about naps - the Dr Karp method is well worth trying (look it up on Youtube) - I found it very helpful. I seem to remember doing masses of on-the-spot pram rocking when DD was that age (I would read a book perched on the front of the pram at the same time!). She also slept in the sling and on me from time to time.
At that age, 45mins awake time was about the most she could manage happily (although I hadn't quite sussed that out then!).
We also used a dummy, which helped (until addiction set in for overnight sleep and a long drawn out weaning process had to be undertaken).
And as AD says, don't worry about nap duration at that age or putting them down sleepy - it's unlikely to work, so don't frustrate yourself trying.

Thanks for the nappy advice, AD! DD is in washables - Popins. Reinforcing the sides has worked the last couple of nights, although it's a bit of a faff to do when DD is complaining with tiredness and slightly hyped from her post-bath rollaround. Might well investigate the fleecey whotnots, cheers for that.

Coo, it's been quiet on here!!

Last night was quite good after a slightly fraught bed-time (a bit of protesting after I put DD down - haven't had that for a while). Three awakenings, one self-settle, so only two feeds between 07.15 and 06.45.

Typically I didn't sleep brilliantly, for some reason. It may have been my slow reaction to another change of pattern from DD or hormones (came on today).

I almost blew the last pram nap by leaving it a bit too long before starting it, so a crying overtired baby who took longer to go off, then woke after less than 30mins. Thankfully, she went back off again after a few minutes and notched up an hour in the end, so that was a relief.

Peachy bedtime tonight - no crying whatsoever and she unlatched herself at the end of the feed and indicated that she wanted to be put down to sleep.

Of course, that will almost inevitable mean a rubbishy night (I'm saying that as insurance against the MN jinx...)

Hope everyone else is doing okay...

Hello!

Some daytime respite here - DS unexpectedly slept 1 hr 15 instead of 40 mins yesterday morning, and had a long nap (with resettling) this lunchtime, as per usual. It was nice to avoid the late afternoon meltdown, but he still didn't want to eat any of the nice dinner I'd cooked.

DH was on duty on Tuesday night when I was out. I came home to the sound of howls; DH described him as 'angry' and 'screaming'. I think the poor boy was hungry having refused to feed at bedtime. :(

IC, I thought of you last night when DS had a big nappy leak - I must have put it on wrong as the nappy wasn't very wet. We use Motherease one size at night, which I find very good for containment. The Bambinex Teddies we use in the day aren't half as good.

I'm still here . Went back to work yesterday so not much spare time to post this week.

We have been having much better nights with only 1 awakening and naps have been slightly improved, although I can only one decent nap out of her.

Unfortunately, this all goes to pot at nursery. They can't get her to sleep for more than 30 mins at a time, twice a day so she is going 5 hours between naps. By the time I got her home yesterday, she was shattered and bedtime was an hour long scream-a-thon.

She woke at 1am for a feed and kicked off when I tried to put her back in her cot. After nearly 2 hours of trying to get her resettled, I gave up and she ended up sleeping with me in the spare room.

Similar story today too . Hoping for a better night tonight as am shattered.

Hope you didn't jinx yourself IC and had a good night.

Good news on the napping, AD - bad news on the nappy.
The extra padding I'm putting in the sides is still working - no leaks since I started doing it.

Oh PDog, bliddy nursery!! Not their fault, I'm sure (I imagine they do their best), but what a bummer for you. I'm glad non-nursery nights have got better, though.

Yep, Wed night and last night were both pretty good, with only two awakenings between 07.30 and 06.30, with a bonus extra hour of sleep this morning after her breakfast BF. It meant she was in a better mood and ate more of her solid breakfast - and I was able to grab an extra half-hour of kip too, so we were both happy.

Naps continue to be 30mins max at home, but the long pram walks are thankfully keeping DD sweet, (mostly - we've had a couple that failed, but in general they do the job).

Good weekend to all....

zzzzzzzz.........

Hi all

Sorry I've been AWOL again - have been a tad busy and am also shattered as things are not really improving in the curly household...

IC sounds like things are improving for you, hope they have stayed that way for the weekend?

PDOg what a pain about the nursery. Maybe things will settle down and she will start napping better there once she's more settled?

AD hope the daytime naps are still going well.

Well, DD seems to just be getting worse and not better and I am close to the end of my tether today. Last night she went down relatively easily at 7.15 but woke at 7.55 (easily settled) then 10.15, 1.20 and 3.40 - for a whopping 1.5 hours (she was screaming and crying in her cot but was absolutley fine when taken out, think she just didn't feel like going back to sleep ) she eventually went back to sleep until 7.30 (although I don't think I got back to sleep until well past 6am...)

Naps continue to be quite good, strangely, although today they've been a bit skewed as we have been out and about, but generally she is doing 45mins - 1hr in the morning and 1.5-2hrs post-lunch.

I just don't get why she is waking up so much...she seemed hungry for the first few wakings, but not the 3.40 one really. I am beginning to think my milk isn't enough for her and we have tried a top-up this evening for the first time ever. I hope this isn't the end of BF for us We are doing BLW so she is nowhere near being on 3 solid meals yet so I am reluctant to cut out feeds in case she really needs them.

Tonight she just will not settle and we have been trying to get her to go down since 7pm - DH is with her now. I am slowly losing the will to live and am starting to dread the evenings/nights.

I didn't expect this parenting lark to be easy, but I did think that by 7m things would be getting better not worse!

Hello. Curly, I've replied on your other thread. Actually, DS does the 1.5 hours awake pretty frequently either when there's a lot of developmental stuff going on (like now) or when he's overtired (usually from lack of daytime sleep). IIRC we did get it more when he was transitioning from 3 naps to 2. He does it at least every other night now I reckon, maybe 1 in 3.

When he's up, he seems to want to play. We had a long spell where he'd yell in his cot until he was taken out. Then he was happy to roam around it till he got drowsy again 1.5 hours later. Now he'll play for a bit and then I'll rock him from when he gets cross.

Now DS is needing to go to bed earlier even when, like today, he's had a good lunchtime nap. I think this can help during difficult periods.

We are definitely in sleep regression territory with a run of a few bad nights. Last night: 6 wakings, and spells of being awake, for 45 mins, an hour and 1.5 hour respectively.

I don't actually mind too much as I understand why it's happening and know it'll be over. If I didn't know about sleep regressions I'd be tearing my hair out, though!

On a positive note, we've had a few longer lunchtime naps the last few days which has been a relief for everyone. :)

Actually, the worst bit about DS's sleep at the moment is that rocking doesn't cut the mustard and he has to be frantically jiggled which makes my back & arms ache. We've had this before when he's been working on developmental progress, so I'm not too worried in the long term.

But it does mean that he's a lot more boisterous when I'm trying to rock him. I have teeth marks in my arm and a visible dark bruise on my chin where he headbutted me. In fact, he keeps attacking me like a woodpecker.

His teeth are bothering him though I think, which would explains the recurrence of the biting.

Ugh Curly, I feel for you. Don't know what to suggest to help, really hope it gets better for you soon.

AngelDog glad things are starting to settle down for you, at least during the day anyway. DD bit my arm this morning - ouch! It would be so much easier if they were born with a full set of teeth wouldn't it?

Well we had 2 unsettled nights over the weekend. Down to overtiredness as DD's naps haven't been any better than they were at nursery. BUT last night she slept from 8-ish until 5am . She was still tired but fought sleep for 1.5 hours (what is it with that?)and then managed another hour.

We were up later than usual though so naps were all messed up. I did eventually get her to sleep for 45-mins this morning but on my lap. She then only managed 20 mins this afternoon. She went to bed quickly tonight, surprisingly.

Hope you all manage to get more sleep tonight.

Well...last night wasn't too bad thankfully. Don't know if I could have taken another bad one!!

DD went down sometime around 8pm (can't remember exactly as DH settled her) and she woke at 10ish, but DH settled her with a little bit of back rubbing. SHe woke then for a feed about 11.30, and then stayed asleep until 4am (4 hours of solid sleep = bliss ) SHe then didn't wake until 7.45am, so another decent stretch. I can handle nights like that - I just hope she keeps it up. Not sure whether the formula top-up before bed is helping or not as she is still waking before midnight and she used to do that on BF alone!

Thanks for all your advice AD and hope you had a better night too.

SOrry to hear things have been unsettled for you PDog - hope last night was better?

Hey, curly, glad things were better last night! My DD will also take an hour or more to resettle about 2-in-3 nights after one of her two (usually) wakings. One of those things, I guess. It's still better than what we had before.

Is this the dreaded 9-month regression, then AD? Good luck! Hope your muscles and things can take the strain...

I had awful insomnia last night, which was most annoying as DD resettled after a quick feed only twice before 06.00. I've worked out that she needs about 10 to 10.5 hours sleep per night - as she hadn't had a long resettle, she'd done the full amount by 06.00. Usually it's closer to 07.00 that she wakes (if she's had longer disturbances to her night sleep). It makes me wonder about stretching bedtime to a little later to try for a later get-up. Not sure she'd make it, though. Plus, she just had an almost hour-long nap (with a resettle in the middle), which may be a result of the earlier morning.
Oh blimey, I don't know....

Fingers crossed you got a few more Zs last night, PDog.

Sorry to hear about the insomnia IC - isn't it just awful when LO is fast asleep and we are unable to get to sleep.

Oh god it doesn't feel like we are even out of the 4 month regression yet (at 7m) and now you're telling me there is another one just around te corner at 9m?! Hope it passes quickly for you AD.

Well, last night was just awful - DD went down about 8pm ish as per normal, and slept soundly until midnight without her usual cry/moan about 10ish. 'Great' I thought, a quick feed and then back to sleep until 4, maybe 5... No such luck, DD had other ideas and was still awake at 2.25 - I think she finally went off just after that after we had tried just about everything (inc leaving her to moan at one point) to get her off again. Then she woke again at 5.15 (at which I fed her for quickest/easiest way to peace, even though I don't think she was very hungry!) and then up for the day at 7.30

Hope everyone else had some decent sleeps, PDog, AD, IC ??

Oof, Curly - that's no fun at all. :(

IC, sorry to hear about the insomnia. I'm wondering about making bedtime a bit later too as DS didn't go to sleep till 7pm (normally 6.30) the last couple of nights. I thought it was a late nap yesterday causing it, but today he had a slightly shorter nap and woke at the usual time but still didn't want to go off till 7pm.

I think we had a good night. DS woke 8 times (fairly impressive :)) but 5 were before I went to sleep AND he went straight back to sleep each time. It was a lovely change not to be up for 1.5 hours at some point. :)