Mumsnet - please can you sort out all the Jade posts?

[PussinJimmyChoos]

Its horrible. Regardless of what she did/didn't do, she was a mother. We are all mums and God forbid we will ever have to go through something like this, knowing we will leave our kids behind and not see them grow up.

Threads like this are not in the spirit of Mumsnet and yes, I can hide them if I want, but to be honest, would like to see them deleted. I know policy is to let the debates run with minimum intervention, but tonight its going too far

Thanks,

Puss

Did someone die?

Sorry, I am logging off now, youwillbepleasedtosee BUT please try not to argue about such things though.
It's it's it's ..................................... sad.

Anyway, as you were...

Nobody hates Jade. Nobody is really Anti Jade, either. But people question her motives and her actions in these last weeks of her life. There is nothing wrong about that. She is a public figure, she makes money from being a public figure, it is to be expected.

People question to what extent the activities over the last few weeks have been instigated by Jade, or if everybody has been in a whirlwind of spindoctoring, which even members of the Church and Government seem to have no immunity against.

It is terrifying when PR people and the media becomes this powerful.

I am not a Jade fan, at all, but I found some of the references to old posts a little tasteless to say the least. I reported one...it was just a little jarring to read something that said, are we finally going to see the back of Jade!??!

At the end of the day it was Mothers Day, this was a young woman with 2 small children and that in itself is really sad. Although the public attention of late has driven me nuts, I can still empathise for the family and see that slating the woman now she's gone is in poor taste.

I think MN did the right thing in deleting threads that didn't support the bereavement of a young mum.

Of course.

At the same time, people die. Yesterday two children lost both parents and their grandma in a brutal attack in my neighbourhood. Everybody who loses family or closed ones have a right to mourn. I am sure anybody who has suffered bereavement coming to mumsnet is getting a lot of support. Death is sad, whether it affects a celebrity or your neighbour.

Oh gosh.

I think the whole thing has become so fraught because rather than just give an opinion and then leave it there have been several posters (which I will not be so crass as to name) who have popped up in EVERY thread started to bang on about how crap other people are for feeling sad or sympathetic. Either that or they have been determined to post over an over with suggestions that Jade Goody was somehow faking or orchestrating her situation for fame and money.

I think this has then led to the people who were merely expressing sympathy feeling like they were constantly being got at for just posting that they felt sorry for Jade Goody and her family in these circumstances.

There's also been an awful lot of clashing of personalities (Again - no names mentioned) where people may actually be actively goading other people.

Now it seems those people are all getting terribly upset by the fact that they think they are being censored and that it's not fair that they can't go into threads and start posting about how it's fake or it's crap or it's not fair on them because they know someone who has cancer and they don't see why jade Goody should be getting sympathy when they are dealing with their issues privately and 'with dignity'

Simple fact is that everyone deals with these things differently and jade Goody was already a public figure and so chose to deal with her ilness in a public way. She did so to make money for her children and i don't dount she employed Max Clifford to protect herself and her family as much as possible from a media scrum.

In her situation I would have done the same.

Seeker, you seem a bit upset by the fact that your posts were deleted? I am not sure if I saw them but if they were anything like the stuff I did see and which prompted yet another thread where you were named personally then I am not surprised they were deleted, if only at the request of other posters who thought you were being uneccesarily harsh about the situation Jade Goody found herself in.

Have to say though - I do wonder about the people making a special trip to Jade Goddy's house to leave flowers. That's a bit odd. Unless they know her in which case i would have thought they would send them to the family?

Similarly, beanieb, it seems it has become impossible to be seen as offering sympathetic to jade and her family, and at the same time criticise the media and its role in all this. As soon as you voice a critical opinion, you are got at, and seen to be uncaring and unable to understand that a young mother dying is tragic.

ffs now if you don't say omg I am so upset you are a "jade hter" how childish and silly.
imo mn were wrong to delet the posts. in the past they have allowed disgusting posts to stay, the good thing is I suppose I will be able to ask them to treat it as if the people were talking about Jade.
(I don't hate Jade, just the whole media crap she inspired)

QuintessentialShadow I think it's fine to criticise the media, though I suspect the time for real criticism is yet to come. So far they have not saturated us with stories, nor have they hounded Jade and her family. I suspect that this is all to come and that's very sad for her kids and her mum.

Perhaps people who are critical need to think a bit more about where they should be being critical? ie not doing it in a thread in which people are clearly just expressing their sympathies. Even though the title might not say 'this is a thread for condolences' I think anyone with any sense can tell when a thread is serving that purpose and so anyone who really doesn't want to go trampling on other people's sadness (however much they think it's misplaced) should really start their own thread to talk about the whole media thing.

Someone did start that threas I think, but it didn't get very far and people still continued to bang on about the media and the fame and the inappropriate grief in the thread where people were expressing sympathy, despite there being another place where they could easily get the whole media 'thing' off their chests.

As you say - you feel it "has become impossible to be seen as offering sympathetic to jade and her family, and at the same time criticise the media and its role in all this" - very likely this is true. However there's a whole other style of posting which has caused all this discussion which is not all about criticising the media but more about (a) trampling all over threads to criticise posters for being mawkish and stupid (b) having a go at jade goody for faking her illness/wearing a gown in pictures/ having make up on etc

this thread is the ideal place to discuss the media and the 'public greiving' yet only one person has posted on it since last night which makes me wonder - do people really want to have the discussion at all?

beanieb - most of the people laying flowers are locals. (i don't live there but visit regularly and recognised lots of local people).

2shoes - i don't think anyone has said that if you are not upset you are a "jadehater".

I am glad that some of those posts were deleted. Why does mumsnet have rules if they are not going to apply them?

can i just point out that i recognised lots of people from the sky news reports, i haven't actually gone to lay flowers or anything.

so sad for jade and her family

beanieb your posts are brilliant.

I think the laying of flowers is odd in the extreme.

When diana died I remember reading an artacle about the tons and tons and tons of flowers that literally went to waste, because people put them down there and because of the heat they were dead almost within minutes, and a lot of money had t be spent on clearing them away as the vast numbers of flowers actually created a health hazzard.

can't understand why, if people feel this need to make some kind of gesture, they don't just give a donation to charity rather than wasting money on some tacky flowers that will be dead and gone by tomorrow.

but wannabe that is true about the entire flower industry

you could say the same about mother's day

I lay flowers regularly at my grandfathers grave. I don't think that's odd.

Alot of the people laying flowers at jade's house did know her in some capacity as they lived in the same village.

I agree that a charity donation or similar might be better but i do think that alot of the people doing it see it as a personal gesture from them if you see what i mean.

this is the thread started saying she died. Almost 2 pages of people expressing sympathy until one poster posted something which was uncalled for at 11.14am which was then I assume deleted.

the thread then continued for another half page until someone jumped on a comment made by a poster at 12.36 which I personally don't think was intended to be a dig but was merely an observation about the aggressive treatment she had received.

Then someone basically suggested that her death might not have happened had she (Jade) been more vigilant about getting her smears done. Possibly not the best thing to say given how recent the death was and the tone of the thread. However, rather than leave it at that the poster then continued to snipe saying "Two other little boys lost their mum in tragic circumstances just a couple of days ago, but I don't recall this maudlin outpouring of voyeuristic grief for them" which really was uncalled for as the language used was really quite attacking and unfair to the people who had posted their sympathies. Yes some of the posts may have hused some slightly mawkish language but the post made was a bit mean considering.

and that is how it all started to kick off. Purely because one person could not stop themselves from posting negatively about how jade's cancer was undiagnosed and how other posters were choosing to express themselves. That persoon surely must have been aware of the tone of the thread and the reaction she wold get by posting what she did?

When people objected, that poster then started with the 'who decides what a thread is about anyway' stuff, when really she probably mean 'if I want to come into a thread and completely change the tone of it regardless of who i offend then that should be my right' which just seems a bit to me. Why would people want to be llike that anyway when they have all the buttons and can easily start another thread where that kind of discussion might be better had?

Anyway - what I am saying in my rather long winded way was ... that thread only became a battleground because someone decided to make it so and it wasn't the people who were merely expressing sympathy.

Idrankthechristmas dittany used this expression earlier.

beanieb omg talk about stirring

God there are some sick people on mumsnet.

sorry

was really trying not to stir. Just giving an example of how those threads always ended up being a battleground.

if you want to take what i wrote and stir it then by all means do, but that was not my intention.

I just feel like people don't actually read the threads properly and can't see exactly how the crap starts. That example above is just an example of how the crap started.

"but i do think that alot of the people doing it see it as a personal gesture from them if you
see what i mean." but that is exactly my point. If you give flowers to a loved one or lay flowers on a loved one's grave it is personal because of the personal relationship which existed between you.

But laying flowers at the house of a stranger means nothing. If you didn't know the individual personally then IMO it becomes more about your need than about them iyswim.

All grief is about your own need. The deceased are no longer there, the people left behind grieve their loss. I keep seeing it posted that people are making it about them...that is what happens when you grieve isn't it?

I don't understand why people lay flowers for strangers but who does it hurt?? If people liked her or wantto show sympathy for her famillies loss, why does that bother people so very much.

When MM went missing people were actively stopped from stating anything bad about her parents and threads were bumped out of existance, posters berated but Jade Goody is fair game?? I hate the double standards and snobbishness that comes up here time and time again.

i think as a general rule you should be so crass as to name names, beanie. it allows the person to defend themself. the way you're doing it, you're just flinging around accusations and no-one knows if you're talking about them or not. like, i want to say 'are you talking about me because if you are you're way, way off the mark.' but like i say, i don't know.

what were these terrible remarks, the slurs on jade goody, yesterday? i was busy most of the day, but didn't see any last night.

and actually i can understand the flowers thing, if you're local to her house. they've maybe seen her about the place and regard her as one of their own.