The GC thing is going too far.

[Lexibletheflexible]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5589082-we-can-always-tell?page=2&reply=155348217

The account was attacked by GC people because they believed the murdered woman was trans. Members on this board shared it to amplify the attacks. They didn't care about this woman - they just saw a trans person being murdered and decided it was fair game. The fact that she wasn't trans didn't matter to them - she wasn't sufficiently feminine enough for their liking. The hypocrisy is vile.

If this is true, and members of this site amped up the attacks on this woman while mods allowed it, it's seriously disgusting.

It's all going too far. You need to rethink your guidelines on this.

No, by itself it's not. But pushing back against the increasing stereotyping of women, the deplatforming of gender realists, the sacking of academics, the use of puberty blockers, supporting women fighting for free speech and lesbian rights in other countries, pushing for all males to be excluded from all sports, and other activities, are, in my opinion.

Whatever.

Not everyone is GC.

I dont think you have to be gender critical to be able to read the facts of this specific situation, which is that the op made a claim about the conduct of posters and mods here that is demonstrably untrue.

It seems to me that some posters on FWR see MNHQ’s response as encouragement. For example -

I for one look forward to the next thread in site stuff complaining about FWR where MN put the OP firmly back in their box. Fun times!

Sadly I don’t think anything will improve.

Me too. Absolute legends. And just normal women coming together to support other women. The best.

It’s kind to treat a transwoman work colleague with respect by referring to her as ‘she’ and using the name she wishes to be called

Why? He's a man.

It's a total derail, but @Imdunfer's attachment to a Gender Critical Movement intrigued me - am I a member of something I never realised I'd joined? Are there rallies I could go to, and are they fun? Is there a GC insignia, and where can I get one?

I asked Google to differentiate between a 'Movement' and a popular opinion. Fishing out parts of its overly detailed reply:

Movement: An active, coordinated network of collective action.
Pop Opinion: An aggregation of individual beliefs.

Movement Goals: To disrupt or alter social structures, laws, or values.
Pop Opinion: To express a sentiment, preference, or moral stance.

Movement: Features leaders, organizations, tactics, and a shared identity.
Pop Op: Unorganized; it requires no formal structure or affiliation.

The whole reply was interesting. It did include some features that would indicate sex realism becoming a Movement - this relates to discrete actions by assorted groups and individuals which, theoretically, could coalesce into a co-ordinated system of shared ideology. They haven't, though.

'GC' is simply popular rejection of transgenderism's efforts to disrupt or alter social structures, laws and values.

It is literally the opposite of a movement, it is just people digging their heels in, to carry on understanding sex is real and refusing to go along with the unreality that is 'transgenderism' and indeed 'transhumanism'.

You do not need to be a member of a movement for there to be a movement.

Fascism is a movement and there are plenty of fascists who would not identify as part of a movement.

Feminism is a movement and there are plenty of feminists who do not consider themselves part of the feminist movement.

I am absolutely intrigued at how resistant some people are to the idea that being Gender Critical has reached a size and level of organisation that it makes it into a movement.

You don't need to believe that you are part of that movement yourself, so what is the basis of the seemingly visceral rejection of the idea?

But it doesn't stop there does it? There is an active fight back. In this country we are fighting a group wanting the law changed. In other countries they are fighting to overturn laws that have already been changed.

You might not be joining in that fight yourself, but others are in a real battle.

"Encouragement" for what? Talking about women's rights on the women's rights board?

MNHQ responded clearly and fairly to the OP. It's not the first time this OP has complained (groundlessly) to MNHQ about the FWR board. She could always not look at it? I don't have a dog but I don't go on the dog board and tell them not to talk about dogs and then complain to MN that they're discussing dogs. Or start a thread saying "this dog thing has gone too far". I just ignore the board. Works for me.

I did not say it wasn't a fight.

i said it wasn't a movement.

A fight with organised groups, lawyers, court cases, huge funds and international collaboration and it's not a movement.

OK.

Oh you thought "can always tell" included filtered/edited images online? That was rather silly of you.

We can tell if we meet someone. Unless it's a bad light and they keep very still and don't talk.

Not sure "my disguise is pretty good" is much to boast about anyway.

"Movement" does require agitating for change though doesn't it? The Sufferagettes were a movement agitating for votes for women. The Womens Liberation Movement was a movement that pushed in the 60s-80s that radical changes furthering women's economic, psychological, and social freedoms was necessary for women to progress from being second-class citizens in their societies. Gender Critical feminism is less of a movement than simply saying "no thanks, we don't want to give up those rights" in the face of a regressive movement that holds male sadness as being more important than women's rights. They aren't agitating for change, they are steadfastly pointing out the sexism and stupidity of changes that a the TRA movement is agitating for, that society was temporarily gaslit into going along with briefly before sanity returned. No new laws need to be passed for GC feminism to prevail, only existing laws need to be upheld against the sexist attacks they are currently weathering.

The claim by some that they 'can always tell' is a bit irritating. A bit like people who talk about 'spidey senses'.

I don't think the GC thing has gone too far though.

The claim by some that they 'can always tell' is a bit irritating. A bit like people who talk about 'spidey senses'.

I don't think the GC thing has gone too far though.

possibly as intriguing as the insistence that it is a movement?! 😀

• what does it matter if it is a movement or not?
• does classifying it as a movement somehow make it wrong / right?
• would it allow people to complain that they are being more oppressed (despite the evidence to the contrary!) because it is 'movement'?
• would a movement be bullying where individuals are not?

there has to be a reason to want to determine that it is a movement, and the only reasons I can think of is to try and position it in a more derogatory way, framing it as overbearing / bullying / somehow wrong? Yet another misuse of language to frame imagination and fiction as though it were reality - why, well there must be an ulterior motive, and it is unlikely to be positive.

movements have to be co-ordinated otherwise they are a trend.

the TRA movement has been co-ordinated by a number of charities with playbooks and instructions, materials produced, directions on what to do etc. - that is a movement.

Those with a gender critical view who are standing up against the misogynistic bullying and intimidation are not co-ordinated, there is no playbook, there are no directions or instructions...

it is individuals who are fed up with women being oppressed, with women's spaces being invaded, with the aggression and violence that is seen on only one side of the debate - who have stuck their flag in the sand and said 'no more'.

They are individuals who won't be bullied into lying about sex, who won't look at a man in a frock and be forced into calling him 'she' or 'her'; who don't want to have men changing in with women, or sharing their loos; who don't want young girls to grow up having the one thing incontrovertibly theirs (being a woman) removed from them or redefined...

They are individuals who look at the safeguarding red flags around children who are being given drugs and having bodily parts removed because their parents can't parent - and who are seeing the massive child abuse scandal that no-one else is acknowledging.

They are individuals who are prepared to speak the truth and be honest and talk about reality, fact and biology in a world which would have you believe that anything can be true if you shout loudly enough (and are predominantly male!)

That is not a movement - it is a bunch of decent honest people prepared to put the good of society and women ahead of an easier life where they could shut up and allow the bullies to win...

It is not a movement - but thank goodness it is becoming a trend.

To recap. @Lexibletheflexible was sold a pup by another member, complained and was given a more accurate picture by MNHQ. Ironically the whole thing appears to be a lesson in not believing everything someone online tells you when you don't have the evidence yourself.

Considering you do not understand that Wills are a legal document and should be followed to the letter, with no deviations, unless a judge/court agrees... I think anything you have to say should be taken with a bloody huge pinch of salt.

Yes I read that whole batshit thread and certain names jumped out as not understanding the law or moral ethics or reality . Different subject, similar response. It might be time to take a beat?

Amen.

You beat me to it! If only people would actually read the thread rather than blindly supporting a poster who seems completely obsessed with MN and FWR.

I agree with you. The GC lobby on here has become worse than the group they despise. I can’t read it anymore. It makes me sick to my stomach.

I will be jumped on for this. I always am. I won’t answer any mentions for reasons I don’t wish to go into here. But OP you are not alone.

Encouragement of what?

An unacceptable thread was roundly criticised and swiftly deleted, and a poster who spread misinformation about what happened was put right.

What exactly is being encouraged in this scenario?