FWR

[MarsScarlet]

FYI: I've name changed for this to avoid a pile-on.

This post is about the overwhelming negativity and hostility with the FWR board that new posters and posters with a differing viewpoint face if they attempt to use the board.

There is a persistent group within the board that are, to put it simply, hateful towards others. Despite posting there on and off for more than 4 years, I have never felt welcome, despite not holding any particular extreme views or being abusive to others. Without exception, I am accused of being another poster, or a man, a TRA, or some kind of paid activist. This occurs again and again until I leave a thread in frustration.

I’ve seen this happen to many other new posters. Few return. Why would they? Such an acidic atmosphere doesn’t encourage healthy discussion. I’d just like to discuss women’s rights, but this board makes discussion impossible.

I’m not exactly sure what the answer is, except for @MNHQ to request the board to tone down the rhetoric a bit and back off on any new names they may see on the board. Let people engage with you rather than actively drive them away.

Yes, no shade. Plenty of boards aren't my cup of tea either. I don't hate lurk on them.

you've given yourselves the permission to be more male in your response patterns.

1. It's misogyny to expect a different style of response from women than from men.
2. It's misogyny to hold women to an arbitrary "higher standard" than men.
3. I'm autistic. FWR is the only place where I can talk to other women without having to heavily mask.

@PeopleLikeColdplay If you read my post properly you will see that i never once said i had been educated by FWR i said i educated myself via books, information data etc. For example i and many other regulars on FWR have read the CASS review from cover to cover.

Yet we have to put up with ploppers who rely on other peoples editorials and claims about it.

Back in the old days I used to point out every time a FWR thread got derailed into talking about what the FWR board is like. Could be about anything - upskirting, the Nordic model, how to support girls that didn't want to have to do "feminine" coded activities.

Spoiler - it was very, very many threads. Over 5+ years. It got very tedious.

Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a specific thread to hash it out, but do be aware that there have been hundreds, and they all go the same way.

It would be good if this one could actually achieve something.

Maybe let's agree not to read into posts meaning that isn't necessarily there (such as people posting their experiences), agree to quote what you disagree with rather than paraphrase it, and not to assume any poster is a man/TRA/any other identity unless they have posted about that?

It is just another attempt to shame posters who do post on that board. It is actually part of that negative feedback farming cycle.

I don't post on 'that' board they are so [insert accusation]' and then will come the 'see I told you so' posts.

Moaning about MNers being meanies has been around as long as MN had existed, hence 'the one with the vipers' tagline.

Moaning about Feminism: Chat being quiet has also been around a while, perhaps those moaners could enliven the board by, you know, actually using it and facilitating the sort of feminist culture they feel the Feminism: Sex and Gender board lacks.

So, either you don't expect men to be civil, or you think that the bar for male civility should be lower than that for female civility?

And you wonder why you get your arse handed to you on a silver platter when you post in FWR?

Indeed. I was quoting Trump's Executive Orders on the threads about them. It was clear that some posters hadn't read them and were basing their opinions of them on what journalists had said about them.

Quite frankly if you post on FWR with #bekind you still get a better, more informative response than you would if you posted on Baby Names proposing to call your daughter Nevaeh.

"Can 'robust debate' be done without alienating those more sensitive? And yes, I know it's just words on a screen - but those words on a screen can still affect other people. It's an excuse to say 'it's our space - we don't have to be feminine there.' Because that's what you're saying isn't it - you've given yourselves the permission to be more male in your response patterns."

What is 'feminine' and 'male' about robustly discussing something, and being direct?

Misogynistic and ableist.

I agree selffellatingouroborosofhate. Posting on FWR has allowed me to feel ok about being direct when I need to get a point across. I personally struggle also because there seems to be cultural differences in what is considered 'civil' in the UK or not.

I actually cannot believe that I have read that statement about interactions on a feminist board.

This has a name: tone policing.

You’re not going to attract new people or help newbies if you react like this though.

Ive had the same experience as @MarsScarlet and now I just stay clear from those threads. Some times I read, but I’d never post because so many posters are ‘impatients’ aka rude and unwilling to calmly explain their pov or ready to listen to someone else p’s pov because they date vary from the accepted stance.

I've never had a problem on FWR, espeically with the regulars. I'm much less knowledgeable on the subject than many of the other posters, and they've definitely set me right on a few things, but if you're wrong you're wrong, and people telling you so isn't abusive.

I actually find that it's the "visitors" who are nasty and abusive. They state something as fact, or refuse to state what they mean at all, are met with questions and actual facts from the regulars, then turn into crybullies who try to tone police everyone else.

Actually yes!!

I would welcome tone policing if that means treating people with respect and not implying they’re stupid for thinking differently.

You want a robust discussion? Then have robust arguments explained with respect for other people’s opinions.
Respect doesn’t mean agreeing with them. It means not insulting posters, being dismissive etc….
And then be ready to listen back.

Otherwise it’s not a robust discussion, it’s just going over and over again the same ideas between people sharing similar ideas. What’s the point of that? Because it sure isn’t a discussion. But rather an ongoing validation ‘of being right’

That is absolute rubbish.

I was one of the people who instigated the split of the board, i am not a TRA, not were any of us who pushed for it... we wanted a space to discuss feminism, to allow new board members to discuss it as they first stepped foot into it, without some of the older/more experienced posters turning every thread into a battle ground about Trans/GC conversations.

This has been an age old, long term problem where women new to the real gritty issues of feminism were wanting space to learn and expand their thoughts and beliefs on it in a more conversational manner, but couldn't, because every thread turned into a fight, or got shut down with 'we don't have to teach you, go google' which is really disingenuous.

I've been on and off FWR under various names for 18 years, and it has NEVER been a place to have a pleasant discussion, it has to always turn into a challenging bun fight, which results in thread after thread, after thread, like this one.

It's never been resolved, the split never worked as intended, and i stopped posting over there with any regularity about 2 years ago because i cba with it any more.

Please don't spread lies about the reasons for the split in the first place.

The problem is, a lot of people who tone police are just plain wrong. Posters point out that they are just plain wrong using actual facts and statistics pricing they ar wrong, and their only comeback is to claim that the posters are being mean and bullying them. It's a deflection tool because they have no argument. It's not repetitive to state facts in the face of bullshit.

Katie Dolatowski. Wii Spa. You're welcome.

Ah but discussing baby names, even if in a 'hostile' way is a feminine thing to do. So that's ok.

Tone policing is used to shut down discussion of child safeguarding.

See also: grooming gangs.

Stopped posting over where? On FWR, or Chat?

@MyNewLife2025 Well i am relatively new to the FWR board, so they must have gotten something right. And they have bothered to set up a thread for newbies which they post links to when a newbie announces themselves.

Some posters are just plain lazy and cannot be bothered to review available information on all the issues of concern expressed and discussed on that board.

It takes quite a bit of time and effort.

I am with@ArabellaScott it is a bit odd that folk come to moan here about a board they professional to hate.

Bit like the bully or the spoilt brat, or the tell tale titt complaining to the dinner lady that no one wants to play with them and they don’t know why.

You have conflated "be beaten down, insulted if necessary" with "be given real-world examples and reliable statistics that counter your assertion". This conflation is intellectually dishonest.

The reason I don't hang out on Feminist Chat is because the issues discussed there are ones I can have more useful conversations about in real life, without risking losing my job.

The reason I post on sex and gender is because - despite the tsunami of court cases where women have won for being fired or sidelined or suspended for stating biological reality and asserting their right to single sex spaces - it's still the case this is something you can only discuss in real life if you don't mind being fired / ostracised or can afford to take to court (most can't).

The problem is, a lot of people who tone police are just plain wrong. Posters point out that they are just plain wrong using actual facts and statistics pricing they ar wrong, and their only comeback is to claim that the posters are being mean and bullying them. It's a deflection tool because they have no argument. It's not repetitive to state facts in the face of bullshit.

Exactly. It's the last resort of people who know their argument is poor.

To be fair I've seen much more insulting behaviour and personal attacks on threads that has anything to do with current politics, particularly if anyone ever dares to suggest anything in the slightest bit negative wrt the Labour Party.