FWR

[MarsScarlet]

FYI: I've name changed for this to avoid a pile-on.

This post is about the overwhelming negativity and hostility with the FWR board that new posters and posters with a differing viewpoint face if they attempt to use the board.

There is a persistent group within the board that are, to put it simply, hateful towards others. Despite posting there on and off for more than 4 years, I have never felt welcome, despite not holding any particular extreme views or being abusive to others. Without exception, I am accused of being another poster, or a man, a TRA, or some kind of paid activist. This occurs again and again until I leave a thread in frustration.

I’ve seen this happen to many other new posters. Few return. Why would they? Such an acidic atmosphere doesn’t encourage healthy discussion. I’d just like to discuss women’s rights, but this board makes discussion impossible.

I’m not exactly sure what the answer is, except for @MNHQ to request the board to tone down the rhetoric a bit and back off on any new names they may see on the board. Let people engage with you rather than actively drive them away.

Anyone who thinks males should be allowed in female spaces can’t then say ‘But not those males.’

It can’t be regulated by what someone’s wearing, whether they have a GRC or whether they’ve had surgery. It can’t be case by case. It can only work as a blanket ban.

The funny thing is that women who prioritise male feelings also think they are justified in being mean and "non kind" to gender critical feminists, because righteous blow for so called trans rights, but they don't think we have the right to respond in kind. It's a weird kind of performative sexism.

Helleofabore is the absolute opposite of a bully.

You're trying to assert that you're allowed to criticise others and insult them, but they mustn't protest or question your posts.

That's ridiculous, frankly.

Anyone who thinks males should be allowed in female spaces can’t then say ‘But not those males.’

It can’t be regulated by what someone’s wearing, whether they have a GRC or whether they’ve had surgery. It can’t be case by case. It can only work as a blanket ban.

Exactly. Women's spaces are for women only, because we need them to be. Not nice men, however lovely and unthreatening, not "feminine" men. Not vulnerable men.

Not my Nigel, or anyone else's.

I think that this is true. I think there is a wide range of people, even though there is this constant grouping and description as a hive mind.

And @MalagaNights, when you post, whether people agree fully, partially or not at all, in general you have something that is thought provoking. I read your posts and think about them. I don't recall though you posting in an undermining way or using dishonest representations to portray feminists in a negative light. I would be surprised if you did that.

This is beginning to look like a revenge thread to take down one person, put them on a radar whilst remaining anonymous and to be honest, I've seen alot of to and fro on FWR but I am racking my memories to think of any time Helle has been a bully.

Some people think that any pushback at all is bullying, especially if you're matter-of-fact about it and not all simpering and apologetic that you happen to have an opinion of your own!

Exactly this.

Are you aware that this very thread has been picked up on Reddit and as a consequence @Helleofabore and other known posters are being dissected and name called?

Did you not think about that or the consequences of starting a thread like this or naming other posters?

You are aware what doxing on the internet is ?
It's happened to many women who don't tow the agreed party line already.

I think this behaviour is why so many FWR regulars don't take 'newbies' at their word.

Are you aware that this very thread has been picked up on Reddit and as a consequence @Helleofabore and other known posters are being dissected and name called?

Shocked face.

Quite. Some posters may not like Helle's posting style, especially if she is querying something they said but couldn't substantiate, but she is not a bully.

I think the problem here is that their feminism isn't intersectional - it's not including the overlapping issues of being both trans and male, and therefore misses an entire axis of privilege.

Thanks Jeff.

@Helleofabore 🌹

Are you aware that this very thread has been picked up on Reddit and as a consequence and other known posters are being dissected and name called?

Wow. Almost as if that was the intent..

What are people’s motivations.. Have they nothing better to do. How bizarre.

@MarsScarlet Do you know anything about this?

I note how many times the OP posted just as some posters were perhaps realising that actually, we're not all poisonous vipers all the time, and that we're supportive to those who are interested in learning another's position. Looked like a derail to me. Can't have people being nice when they're supposed to have demonstrated how horrid we are.

FWR Sex and Gender Board is the most regulated and monitored Board on MN, it is subject to extra, separate guidelines that no other Board on MN is subject to and held to a higher standard than any other Board.

You want it to be even further regulated and policed.

Check out threads in AIBU on sex/gender issues, posters on there who are not names that post regularly or at all on FWR Sex and Gender post comments that would never stand on FWR S&G. If any regular poster made those comments it would earn them at the very least a suspension if not a permanent ban. The rules on FWR S&G are far, far, far more stringent than in any other area of the site.

However, due to your posts I am not convinced that was the reason for you starting this thread, in my opinion the reason for this thread was to disparage regular posters on the FWR S&G Board and one poster in particular.

I would really enjoy such thorough discussion on a wider range of topics too, but the feminism chat board is a bit of a ghost town and I’m not sure that it’d be okay to start non sex & gender topics on the FWR board.

My eyes rolled into the back of my head so excuse typos. That is what Feminism Chat is for. Don't worry, if a thread strays into Gender issues it will be on the naughty step before too long.

I've been on FWR under a variety of names for about 5 years now, I don't post much there because I'm male and it's not really my space. Mostly I just read and learn.

When I do post, sometimes I do feel a bit piled on, because I'm coming to things with a different perspective and I suddenly find myself with 20 women hammering me with questions and asking me to consider points that have never ever crossed my mind. And so I reply, and try and answer those points and sometimes we end up coming to an agreement and if not we at least go away having learnt more about each others perspectives.

Twice I've ended up with my arse completely handed to me by the masses, including a number of posters on this thread who I've come to really respect over the years. It felt crap, and I felt like I'd had a bit of a kicking.

But here's the thing, I was never insulted, never bullied, never told to shut up. I was told why people felt my opinions were wrong, provided with information when my facts were incorrect, and asked questions designed to invite my opinion and defend my perspective.

FWR can feel like a battlefield, because most of the posters are fighting a battle. A lot of them have been doing it for years as well, so the facts and arguments they use as their weapons are very sharp indeed. So if you go in there unprepared, without having thought through your opinions, you're highly unlikely to come out unscathed.

But it's always a fair fight. It would be so easy for posters in FWR to tell me "You're a man, you're never going to understand, fuck off." But in 5 years, thats never once happened, and I've never seen anyone else bullied either, just invited to reinvestigate their thoughts in a robust manner.

ah bref this is so true. But it doesn't seem to happen 100% the other way at the moment.

Luckily the arrival of an already started thread arriving on the naughty step is getting less and less often.

Vimes is a man?

Just joking....

😅 sorry! I get that feminism chat is for that and will try posting there - I’ve seen and heard it’s quite quiet but worth a try and hopefully if it’s a thread of interest people will comment.