FWR

[MarsScarlet]

FYI: I've name changed for this to avoid a pile-on.

This post is about the overwhelming negativity and hostility with the FWR board that new posters and posters with a differing viewpoint face if they attempt to use the board.

There is a persistent group within the board that are, to put it simply, hateful towards others. Despite posting there on and off for more than 4 years, I have never felt welcome, despite not holding any particular extreme views or being abusive to others. Without exception, I am accused of being another poster, or a man, a TRA, or some kind of paid activist. This occurs again and again until I leave a thread in frustration.

I’ve seen this happen to many other new posters. Few return. Why would they? Such an acidic atmosphere doesn’t encourage healthy discussion. I’d just like to discuss women’s rights, but this board makes discussion impossible.

I’m not exactly sure what the answer is, except for @MNHQ to request the board to tone down the rhetoric a bit and back off on any new names they may see on the board. Let people engage with you rather than actively drive them away.

Yes, people mistakenly thinking someone is the opposite sex happens. It's not generally a big deal. The idea that it's grievously hurtful/offensive is relatively new - when I was much younger it would have been considered a bit of a giggle.

These days it's 'misgendering' and there are people who will tell you it's actually illegal, a hate crime, and/or automatically deeply traumatic. There are also, amusingly, people who do it on purpose because they think it's upsetting and they want to try and offend. Whereas to most people, it's just inaccurate.

Thanks. I was not saying it is a personal slight. Just that it happens. And for women it happens to frequently, it gets wearing.
There was a lesbian folk singer who used to perform at local prides who wrote a song about this because she was so fed up of it.

‘Simply not true’. You’ve now been given examples but have ignored these but expect everyone else to buy into what you’re saying and take as gospel, despite not being able to post or even summarise the ‘abuse’ from the other side.

Yes, I’ve had TRAs call me a man and say I look like a transwoman when they have had no answers to my very simple questions.

I’m actually quite traditionally feminine looking too, not that that matters.Also couldn’t give a shit about being “misgendered.”

Also, it’s interesting how they use transwomen as an insult when they do this, isn’t it?

Yes. Targeting of specific posters all the while some posters are complaining about hostile posting and pile ons.

Talk about self awareness....

Also, it’s interesting how they use transwomen as an insult when they do this, isn’t it?

It's always very telling.

@ArabellaScott I was not talking about misgendering. That is a totally different discussion.

I imagine it happens a lot more now because women are much more on guard now that transwomen think it’s their god given right to breach women’s spaces.

I have heard some butch lesbians saying it happens more. Others say it always happened to them a lot anyway.

I have been personally been asked as a short haired teenager. It does happen.

The thing is, some female people being asked whether you are in the correct toilet for your sex is not a reason not to exclude male people from a toilet. Were you saying that your experience means that female people should allow male people to access female single sex spaces? Because I can imagine that many people will disagree with that being leveraged as a reason for that inclusion.

I've been 'Dear Sir'd more than once in replies from the Scottish Government/MSPs to questions on the GRA and related issues.

I assume it was one wee passive aggressive dig they thought they could get away with.

Obviously, I was hurt.

No I was not drawing any conclusions at all.
I was simply told it never happens as all women can recognise who is a woman and who is a man, and so I must be a man or transgender or a transactivist. And by a few posters.
When as mild a remark as mine gets that response, you just end up thinking fine that board is not for me.

Jesus Christ. If that’s the level the actual government is operating at then it’s not surprising we’re in such a mess. Playground stuff.

I’m just here lurking today 🍿

I am a newbie, relatively, as only joined here about 13-14months ago, but have found the space to be very supportive and informative. Have learned a lot and found solidarity and reassurance… and rubbed up against a few of those definitely hovering to pick fights, though I’ve noticed most of them give me a swerve these days, so I guess I’m not interesting enough to engage with 🤣

Nobody should feel targeted if they stand by what they say.

It is their own words, nothing more, nothing less.

I am also more than happy to post a selection of abusive posts from a variety of FWR posters if that would help feel less targeted?

Shall we in turn post abusive posts from yourself? Is that what will this thread devolve into?

Are you doing that thing where you keep saying you have proof without posting the proof in the hopes that some people reading will just believe you?

@Helleofabore As I said I was not drawing conclusions. But even if someone was, there is no need to accuse them of making it up.

As Ralph Waldo Emerson put it "Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted."

"all women can recognise who is a woman and who is a man"

I think that this statement often gets misposted due to the fact that posters resort to a sound bite version. Because the more accurate observation is that female people can more accurately correctly sex a male person with some interaction, if not immediately. And generally, over a long period of time, it would be unlikely that not one female person will have correctly identified the sex of that male person.

However, people do use the sound bite version, and sometimes get it wrong, and it does come across as not accurately reflecting the reality.

There have been many many posters, usually male posters with transgender identities, who have told us over and over and over that we women 'cannot tell' . It is a predictable script then goes onto 'discussing genital inspections' and the like. All while telling us that they should never be excluded from female single sex spaces and then posting a final abusive post before leaving, and also while declaring that they are female posters.

The example of women being misgendered has been leveraged for a very long time by male people.

I am sure you won't appreciate the history behind those interactions but I am trying to give you the background as to why some posters will short cut the conversation. It doesn't give them permission to be abusive if they have been judged abusive by MNHQ though.

I am sure that if you and your friends spoke to the women who were questioning your presence, that you will likely be correctly sexed.

I also find these sort of "poking" posts end up derailing the thread which then gets deleted. I wonder why 🤔

EDIT - That wasn't at you btw

Shall we in turn post abusive posts from yourself? Is that what will this thread devolve into?

Quite.

what a fast moving thread, just caught up.

I have always had a strong sense of smell and can detect something, well, erm, very fishy?

You are very welcome to post anything I have written.

I'm still waiting for the go ahead from Mumsnet to do this.