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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Rampant ageism.

152 replies

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 17/01/2024 15:15

There's just so much of it. If you want to keep the over 60's over here, could we address these hateful posts in a timely manner. One in particular has been reported a while ago. Still there.

OP posts:
MrsMitford3 · 17/01/2024 19:52

LindorDoubleChoc · 17/01/2024 16:02

Anyone who wants to know what thread it is:

Just advanced search the word ageism and today's date and it will be pretty obvious.

.

Ap24 · 17/01/2024 19:53

ruby1957 · 17/01/2024 18:54

'oldies' is yet another nasty epithet applied to the older generation (all of us) could you not think of a kinder description.

That is ageism

I don't think it's nasty at all, apparently boomer is now an insult and old seemed liked a good description. I see young'uns and similar used in the same way with no issue. And really who cares? Mumsnet doesn't. I'm a millennial, I've had to ignore ageism all my adult life.

baldpenguine · 17/01/2024 20:02

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants
What on earth are you playing at?

Flatulence · 17/01/2024 20:06

C8H10N4O2 · 17/01/2024 18:53

Just because an accurate descriptor of a generation doesn't apply to YOU doesn't make it incorrect when applied to a cohort

Which particular accurate descriptor do you mean?

"Young people are more judgemental", "Older people lose bone and muscle density" are age related descriptors which are true at cohort level, and apply to all generations as part of the ageing process.

"Older people had it easy" and "young people are snowflakes" are targeted at specific generations and are not accurate descriptors even at cohort level - they are used to other and dismiss whole groups. In particular they are used to mask and dismiss inequality within generations, sexes and races. Just think who benefits from that.

FWIW, my X/boomer boundary generation were regularly to be found marching on the streets for social justice and embracing vegetarianism and many other causes of the day. The original hippies were the older boomer generation from the 40s.

The reason most of my generation and the boomers don't have student debt round our necks is because most of our generations never had a sniff of a chance of going to university. It was out of reach for the vast majority. For those who went then as now - a percentage had wealthy parents who paid all the bills, the rest held down jobs.
As for building a stable career - women were routinely sacked, denied promotions, denied jobs and paid less simply for being women on an industrial scale. There was generational industrial chaos and job losses (for life in many cases resulting in enduring poverty).

Rather like sex, every generation thinks its discovered The One True way to live and manage society and despairs of the generation above (until they are the generation above).

However you would need to be seriously disconnected not to see the recent escalations in ageism and the propagation of "all older people are rich, greedy, stupid" tropes, especially tropes targeting older women. None of which are accurate even as descriptors of the generation let alone individuals within it.

If you think about "who benefits" from intergenerational strife its not the old or the young - its the people who benefit from the distraction from real inequality which straddles age, sex and race.

I'd already provided some examples but to clarify:

It WAS much more affordable for a 30 year old to buy a house in the 70s to the early 2000s than it is today. Every single statistic you can look at (house price to salary ratio, most common living arrangements for young adults, percentage of take home pay spent on housing).

Again, I'm not gen Z. I'm not even a millennial. I'm at the young end of gen X.

But it's essential - as a society - to acknowledge the above. The goalposts have been well and truly moved and it's wildly shit for anyone trying to not just put down roots but just live now unless they bought a decade or so ago or more.

I'm personally sick of the gaslighting younger people face when they're told to cancel Netflix and stop eating avocados in order to buy a four-bed house in Surrey. Absolute insanity.

I agree it's totally unhelpful to say "young people are snowflakes" (for what it's worth I've never found Gen Zs or Millennials to be "judgemental", quite the contrary) or "older people had it easy", especially, as you say, women (as well as ethnic minorities) had a shit deal in the workplace and in wider society. It is also a distraction. Completely. I accept that.

However I'm always staggered that more people can't understand why Gen Z and the younger millennials are furious and striking out when people from different generations whinge about them having a smart phone or daring to go to Spain for 3 nights.

Gen Z have done (as a cohort level, again) everything "right": better performance at school than ever before, more of them going to university than ever before, better grades than ever before, a million extra curricular activities just to get a place on a competitive course or apprenticeship, selling their souls to get crap unpaid internships. They're far less likely to drink or smoke or do drugs than my age group was; we (as a cohort, again, not everyone) pissed our money up the wall!

That is before we even consider the 50k debt (min) someone needs to get into to become a primary school teacher (which didn't even need a degree 30ish years ago). And yet the most common living arrangement for 18 to 34 year olds is "with parents". Twenty-five years ago it was "couple with children".

Meanwhile society is telling these young women that their biological clock is ticking.

Among all of that there are millionaires who are 25 and so of course this doesn't apply to them because, again, we're talking about cohorts here. Just as saying "it was easier to buy a home in the 80s than it is now" doesn't apply to an Orgreave miner or a woman who fled domestic violence with just the clothes on her back.

Yes, gen Zs are largely directing their anger at the wrong people. That's true.

But as the generations that have gone before it's remiss of us not to acknowledge the housing crisis and the income crisis faced by younger people en masse. The least we can do is not gaslight them into thinking the reason they can't afford even a room in a shared house let alone to buy a place is avocados and laziness because it simply isn't true.

bessytedsy · 17/01/2024 20:10

This reply has been deleted

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bessytedsy · 17/01/2024 20:12

@Flatulence it’s like shouting into the void!

Atethehalloweenchocs · 17/01/2024 20:15

Seems like the worst attitudes to older women come from younger women. But it is very sad to see it on a site like this. I am also struck at how often posts about unreasonable behaviour reference an older womans age, being single or not having children.

DaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisy · 17/01/2024 20:22

The OP couldn't care less about ageism. What ground her gears is ageism against older people. Young people are fair game for her and many others on this site. The thread about people complaining about being cold at work but hardly wearing any clothes turned into a massive pile on against young people, as I knew it would as soon as I read the OP. It's so tedious and predictable.

Flatulence · 17/01/2024 20:23

bessytedsy · 17/01/2024 20:12

@Flatulence it’s like shouting into the void!

Yup. It's exhausting. I'm in my 40s and I can acknowledge that owning property/renting/getting into a career/having a reasonable pension/thinking your job was secure was SO MUCH easier for my cohort of 20-somethings than it is for today's cohort.

I don't know why more people can't acknowledge this, whatever their personal circumstances that have made it easier/harder than "average".

bessytedsy · 17/01/2024 20:37

I don't know why more people can't acknowledge this, whatever their personal circumstances that have made it easier/harder than "average".

Id love to know why they can’t.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 17/01/2024 20:48

The OP couldn't care less about ageism. What ground her gears is ageism against older people. Young people are fair game for her and many others on this site. The thread about people complaining about being cold at work but hardly wearing any clothes turned into a massive pile on against young people, as I knew it would as soon as I read the OP. It's so tedious and predictable.

What has OP said that shows this?

DaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisy · 17/01/2024 21:03

@Atethehalloweenchocs tell me you haven't read the thread without telling me you haven't read the thread 🤣

WhimsicalMoth · 17/01/2024 21:13

DaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisy · 17/01/2024 20:22

The OP couldn't care less about ageism. What ground her gears is ageism against older people. Young people are fair game for her and many others on this site. The thread about people complaining about being cold at work but hardly wearing any clothes turned into a massive pile on against young people, as I knew it would as soon as I read the OP. It's so tedious and predictable.

To be honest, when I think 'ageism' I think of people making nasty comments and assumptions, stereotypes etc about people aged 50+. I don't think youngsters.

Naptrappedmummy · 17/01/2024 21:23

WhimsicalMoth · 17/01/2024 21:13

To be honest, when I think 'ageism' I think of people making nasty comments and assumptions, stereotypes etc about people aged 50+. I don't think youngsters.

Is that because you’re over 50 and therefore more likely to be offended by the former and not the latter?

Atethehalloweenchocs · 17/01/2024 22:53

Oh stop @DaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisy , I read the thread just fine. But still see you making massive assumptions and taking advantage in order to make some nasty comments about the OP. But off you go, guess I am just too old to be bothered to listen to.

Naptrappedmummy · 17/01/2024 22:54

Atethehalloweenchocs · 17/01/2024 22:53

Oh stop @DaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisy , I read the thread just fine. But still see you making massive assumptions and taking advantage in order to make some nasty comments about the OP. But off you go, guess I am just too old to be bothered to listen to.

You asked her! Goodness me.

whatsitcalledwhen · 17/01/2024 23:22

Atethehalloweenchocs · 17/01/2024 20:48

The OP couldn't care less about ageism. What ground her gears is ageism against older people. Young people are fair game for her and many others on this site. The thread about people complaining about being cold at work but hardly wearing any clothes turned into a massive pile on against young people, as I knew it would as soon as I read the OP. It's so tedious and predictable.

What has OP said that shows this?

She has made ageist comments, sweeping statements about specific generations, on other threads. They just happen to be about people of a younger age than her.

So people quite fairly pointed out that her complaining about ageist posters making comments about older people is very hypocritical when she has done the same thing about younger people.

fuckingheartbroken · 17/01/2024 23:24

Atethehalloweenchocs · 17/01/2024 22:53

Oh stop @DaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisyDaisy , I read the thread just fine. But still see you making massive assumptions and taking advantage in order to make some nasty comments about the OP. But off you go, guess I am just too old to be bothered to listen to.

What? You asked her? And she makes a very valid point. Ageism isn't only for a collective age group of elderly people. The OP has been incredibly ageist against younger people too.

Don't start being silly saying 'you're too old' as if PP was being ageist to you..

Crikeyalmighty · 17/01/2024 23:51

I have no beef if young people want to say that things were easier for my generation because in the main they were in certain aspects- however life has a habit of kicking you in the balls and therefore it hasn't been easy for all.

I for instance was back at work full time with a13 week old baby in my mid 30s and we don't own a house in our early 60s for various reasons but mainly because our higher earnings happened post 50 (try getting a mortgage post 52 in the south) and we haven't inherited (parents still around)

I know some wonderful young people and my friends are late 30s and early 40s and not remotely ageist towards me. I suspect something has happened to the OP that was the icing on the cake, not got a job, lost a job, someone made a comment regarding age- I don't think the comment was an isolated thought- must admit I don't like getting old much either- it doesn't help when my 84 year old FIL (intelligent professional man) constantly goes on about being yesterdays man

RedMinnie · 18/01/2024 02:22

spearthatbroc · 17/01/2024 16:19

to be fair Op, going by your posting history you are not averse to posting rather ageist comments about the younger generation and how it’s a “generation” thing (your holiday with your DSD for example?)

I really can’t say I’m surprised.

One thing about a lot of posters on MN, they like to harp on about ageism but don’t see a problem about being ageist towards the younger generation? Apparently, it’s only ageism if you’re referencing someone over the age of 50+.

How many threads have their been about younger peoples work ethic and motivation in the work place? So many threads about x,y and z but that’s all okay because it’s the younger generation. And here you are yourself OP making comments about the younger generation on a thread of yours. I cannot say I’m surprised at all

RedMinnie · 18/01/2024 02:25

MonsteraMama · 17/01/2024 16:39

Rules for thee and not for me I see 🙄

Yep!

RedMinnie · 18/01/2024 02:30

MonsteraMama · 17/01/2024 18:08

Come on @SpongeBobJudgeyPants , your thread raised valid points, which I'm sure many of us agreed with. I know I do.

Ageism is wrong, and is rampant on this website, you are absolutely right. So, justify your own. Why is "snowflake" ok but "ok boomer" is hateful?

Don't flounce now, where's all that fire gone from your OP about people's hateful posts? This could be an actual learning moment for you if you'd swallow your pride.

!!!

RedMinnie · 18/01/2024 02:33

Britpop123 · 17/01/2024 19:26

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants has just dm’d me to have a got at me for being a troll/the thread police…

wow

This thread is bonkers😂

Looked like OP couldn’t handle being a hypocrite so now they’re messaging posters directly. Madness

RokaandRoll · 18/01/2024 02:43

I agree with everything @Flatulence said. It's part of our general societal decline caused by so much wealth being funneled to the billionaires while we fight amongst ourselves over the scraps. I feel terrible for young people today.

At the same time, I really resent ageism towards the 50+. I had a terrible, abusive childhood, moved out age 17. Worked 3 jobs, 7 days a week, and put myself through university at the same time. Massive student loan debt that I finally finished paying off age 50 (not from the UK). Lost monry on the sale of my first home. Scrimped and saved, never had a penny in handouts. Now I have a lovely life - mortgage-free with lots of holidays. But my god, I earned it. And I can't stand being told I had it easy. We're fighting the wrong enemies here.

Theemptydollshouse · 18/01/2024 03:30

baldpenguine · 17/01/2024 19:08

This hasn't gone well for you has it OP.

Nor for all the posters who joined in on an unpleasant pile on.