To be bored of the trans hate?

[DaisyUpsy]

Ok, there are extremists (like the punch people in the face person), extremists can be found in many areas of life but is anyone else fed up of the trans stuff constantly being dragged up?

I've seen some ridiculous statements on here recently. Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring. Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

Unfortunately the way some (not all) people are going about things is quite extremist in itself and won't encourage anyone to listen to anything valid, it's just obliterated by the pure hatefulness.

Agree with this but it’s the case on both sides. Not all trans women are desperate to invade female spaces and push them out of sports and not all women who express concerns about some of the more extreme trans demands/requests are transphobic. There is room for compromise here so that everyone feels comfortable. I’ve certainly got no beef with trans women, and I’m happy to engage in debate to find solutions so that everyone feels that they have their rightful place in society.

The issues arise here because discussion of these issues is often viewed as bigotry when it really isn’t. We all just want to feel safe and we all have the right to do so.

Absolute rubbish.

My views have not changed in the slightest.
I have never believed people can change sex. When and why did your views on that change?
I was horrified when I first found out that male rapists were being put into female prisons so I looked more into it and found out everything that's been going under the radar for years.
No pushing by religious groups was needed I'm afraid, I'm not the one that's been indoctrinated to believe that men can be women if they really want it.

YANBU, I have a trans family member and the language and tone used to discuss trans people on here is appalling.

Yes I'm bored of it.
Bored of them protesting women meeting and speaking.
Bored of the violence and rape threats.
Bored of them trying to get women fired for believing in women's rights.
Bored of the self indulgent luxury beliefs.
Bored of having to explain basic safeguarding
Bored of seeing men constantly gaslighting women about it.

Wanting to preserve the rights of SA survivors to request a female HCP to perform intimate procedures, or for women fleeing male violence not to have to live with males in refuges, or for female prisoners not to share cells with rapists, is not 'hate'.

It's not us doing the hating.

nobirdandnonetensresme · Today 09:56

With respect, I disagree. I work in the public sector and the influence of the trans lobby is huge and incredibly damaging to women, children and safeguarding
This

If you ever have to attend one of these "diversity" lectures promoting trans ideology just remember this:-
Truth does not mind being questioned, but a lie does not like being challenged

YANBU, I have a trans family member and the language and tone used to discuss trans people on here is appalling.

I'm female and have many female family members. I won't step aside for male people. It's as simple as that. It's not personal, I just don't believe in your ideology.

In what way?

Is calling males 'males' bad language or bad tone?

Well put.

And of course, the right for lesbians to not be ostracised, attacked or called 'transphobic'/vagina fetishists because they won't countenance relationships with males.

YABU. I don't hate trans people. I hate the lobbying that seeks to strip rights from other people, particularly for single sex spaces. I hate the push for potentially damaging and irreversible medical intervention for young people who lack the maturity to make a fully informed decision. I hate all the one way #bekind shit that selectively overlooks threats of violence.

I haven’t seen the racist posts at all, but you’re right, that’s not ok.
Can I ask how you feel about the racism from TRAs? As it seems particularly rife. It’s challenged a lot on Twitter particularly.

I hate all racism. I don't think racism from TRAs counterbalances racism elsewhere though. It's all bad and so pervasive it gets everywhere. It is particularly disheartening to see it from people who claim to care about women's rights though.

The trans actor threads I remember (don’t watch Dr Who so missed that one) are where fictional characters such as Bill in Malory Towers and George in Famous Five are represented as trans (in fan fiction, in plays), and that’s not ok.

In this situation it was the actor who was the trans girl in heart stoppers being offered a part as a trans women in the upcoming Dr Who series. It hasn't even been aired yet and it is a new character. People objected to the principle of a trans actor working / a trans character being created.

Dictating how others speak of you is Orwellian and shouldn’t be forced on anyone

Is it OK for people to call you cis or a cervix-haver? If not are you not dictating how others talk speak you?

Right, so women have been sacked, forced from jobs, prevented from meeting in public, freelancers lost work and opportunities, hounded by mobs, had to barricade themselves in rooms from angry howling mobs. threatened, and Kellie Jay came near to being crushed to death by a mob of 1000s in NZ, yet your focus is the alleged ‘hate’ from women in n this site objecting to this treatment they are subjected to?

I think the window through which you are viewing this is flawed.

No. Prisoners should be housed in the estate that matches their sex.

This

Lets not forget Riley Gaines being held actual hostage whilst the police stood there looking on.

Lets not forget Riley Gaines being held actual hostage whilst the police stood there looking on.

Yes, that was awful!

Are you also as appalled by the rape and death threats made by TRAs towards women who are expressing their legally upheld opinions that changing sex is impossible?

Most of the views I see on MN are about trying to protect women’s legal rights, because there seems to be a concerted and determined effort by some members of the trans community to deny that women’s rights exist and are protected in law.

Really struggling with my hormones and cycles at the moment, started listening to Period Power as recommended to understand my body more. I don't think it was even 2 minutes in before the author started bleating on about people with wombs and menstruators, WHILST acknowledging how reductive this is. The author does not seem to understand the irony of her talking about the impact of the patriarchy on women's bodies to then have centred the language of her book around men.

At first this trans stuff made my eyes roll and mildly irritated me, now it infuriates me, the outrageousness of it all, how fucking odious it is to women. But no, no, #bekind

In this situation it was the actor who was the trans girl in heart stoppers being offered a part as a trans women in the upcoming Dr Who series. It hasn't even been aired yet and it is a new character. People objected to the principle of a trans actor working / a trans character being created.

Did they? Or were they objecting to a male being trumpeted as a woman?

Trans men get hate too on this site and I don't see how they are effecting women's safety and rights.

I don't condone abusing anyone or directing hate at them, but of course changing women's policies to centre transmen affects women.

It's the misguided attempts at accommodating transmen that lead to women's vaginas being referred to as "bonus holes" and to woman as "cervix-havers" and "menstruators".

This threatens women's much needed rights to protection in law, because if biological sex is no longer a legal category under the Equality Act, it means that the law would need to be re-established through case law as women get discriminated against for various reasons (e.g. people with a cervix, people who menstruate, people who get pregnant, etc).

So redefining biological females who identify as transmen as "not women" sets the law back for all women (including those transmen, some of whom will inevitably at some point need to rely on sex-discrimination laws themselves) as we will, once again, have to wait for women to experience real-life discrimination and actual harm before case law can be established that we should be protected. All over again.

I met my first TW about 45 years ago, looked like one of Hinge and Bracket, can't remember which was which. It's not new to some of us, unfortunately I have also dealt with, professionally, some who were clearly very, very disturbed.I can't give the whole story here, obviously, but they were not people you would have wanted to be stuck in a lift or enclosed space with. Why?
Because they were unstable and prone to violence. The argument always goes that people of a certain age nows nothing and that things were worse 25 years ago, usually said by people who weren't adults 25 years ago.

Alright:

Feelings: trans ideology puts women at risk
Facts: cuts to education, social care, early years support, rape centres (all thinhs that disproportionately put women at risk) have been merrily pushed through by Tory governments that are also keen to tell us they 'know what a woman is'.

Feeling: Allowing transwomen into sport will mean that no girls get to win anything ever again.

Fact: The highest profile trans woman in sport is Lia Thomas, who (checks notes) swims in the USA student games. Katie Ledecky she ain't.

Feeling: Unisex toilets put women at risk
Fact: The UK has lost 50% of its public toilets in the past decade. Changing Places toilets are still very unusual. That isolates carers and people with continence problems - again overwhelmingly women. The tories will however, tell you that 'they know what a woman is'. Apparently it's someone who should piss themselves to save the treasury a few quid.

I get the GC theory and it's an elegant one. If you can't define the biological reality of womanhood, how can you preserve women's rights? But the messy practical reality is that the people keenest to define women by biology are often those keenest to make life as shit as possible for women. Sociological theories can't just exist in the ether, they have to engage with how humans actually behave.

And yes, I know there are lots of splendid women with brilliant intentions fighting this fight. I can also see that their efforts are drowned out by the storm of anti-trans and deeply, deeply misogynistic forces. Look at who is campaigning against abortion rights world wide - it ain't trans people. It ain't trans people who have effectively decriminalised rape - it's the 'we know what a woman is' tories who have kneecapped the courts. It ain't trans people who are running the Met Police.

Trans men get hate too on this site and I don't see how they are effecting women's safety and rights.

Well, they are perpetuating the culture that is causing the problem.

The more people that believe, and act upon the idea that being gender non-conforming means you must actually be the sex associated with the stereotypes that are most like yourself - rather than coming to the more obvious conclusion that all those societal stereotypes are in fact bullshit, and all your sex really means is which bits you've got - the more widespread and unquestioningly believed and enforced those views become. With disastrous consequences all around, including for the women's safety.

They may not be the worst culprits, but they're certainly contributing to the culture.