To be bored of the trans hate?

[DaisyUpsy]

Ok, there are extremists (like the punch people in the face person), extremists can be found in many areas of life but is anyone else fed up of the trans stuff constantly being dragged up?

I've seen some ridiculous statements on here recently. Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring. Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

I personally don’t believe in gender. It brings nothing to society but harm. To that end, deep down, I don’t believe anyone is trans. I fully accept and support anyone living their lives as they wish, but at the end of the day they are male or female.

This. And I'd like the legitimacy of this position fully recognised. A few people have a medical condition for which some limited adjustments should be made. But they haven't actually changed sex. The majority, no, they have zero claim.

Couldn't agree more. They are such a minority, I find it completely baffling how much we talk about them.

yep, op!
its boring and embarrassing. MN is so cringe on this topic

Well, OP. We see what we see.

I see people concerned about women losing hard won rights (to single sex spaces). I see a lot of "MN has so much trans hate" but when asked nobody can show it.

And mostly that is because we report it and it's deleted.

I do see a lot of comments from people who attend Laws events. Who are screamed at, and worse, by huge masked people who hide behind umbrellas. I don't see much of that behaviour at trans/pride events.

For all the people that say there should be a middle ground, how would that work exactly?

How can you make laws that only allow the "nice" transwomen into women's spaces and leave out the bad ones?

That's not even touching on the fact that by letting ANY male person in, it then becomes a mixed-sex space and therefore excludes women who either can't or won't share spaces with males.

gender dysphoria is a disease not an identity.

If you’re not angry, you’re not paying attention.
Me: This. Note that 'angry' and 'hateful' are not interchangeable words.
OP: Indeed. You can be concerned for women's rights without spreading nonsense and inciting hate

Woah there! You are the one who invented the 'hate' narrative.
Why are you pushing a false narrative?

That’s true for children in school, but a 28 year old who hasn’t even moved out of home yet and has no real life experience but think they know it all and spend time screaming bigot at women online, not so much.

Also, another thing that annoys me about the gender cult, the insistence that things like puberty blockers are harmless when we know for a fact that’s not the case, but if you question this, then you’re labelled transphobic. Bloody ridiculous.

YANBU. Blocking Sex and Gender cuts out most of it, but I'm sick of the faux-surprised 'AIBU to be shocked that...' posts.
The worst part is seeing well-meaning, clever women get so totally bamboozled by an ideology pushed by the Catholic Church and the worldwide misogynist right.

That's their own choosing, they want to make everything about them.

They think laws, sports, education, food and beverages, media, films, books, politicians etc etc etc need to bow down to them. They start every conversation, so the frequency of those conversations is on them.

The worst part is seeing well-meaning, clever women get so totally bamboozled by an ideology pushed by the Catholic Church and the worldwide misogynist right.

This has nothing to do with the Catholic Church and the worldwide misogynistic right. I'm sure both you and Hitler agreed that the sky is blue.

Women you know nothing about have been fighting this ideology since the 70s.

Be baffled no more!

It is a top down mens sexual rights movement. In a nutshell.

This. The hate all seems to go the other way in my view.

I am equally bamboozled by those women who do support gender ideology as a concept, given that it undermines women's sex based rights.

I find gender ideology to be hideously misogynistic and the shutting down of women who point this out to be equally so.

Hiding debates on this topic isn't going to make it go away.

The idea that sex matters is an ideology, sure, but it's a lot better founded in reality than the idea we all have gendered souls that can somehow end up in the wrong body.

Feelings are not facts. If you can start to get your head around that then you will start to see the difference between fear and hate mongering, and reality.

Feelings: men claiming they are women and are entitled to be housed in the female prison.
Facts: women being harmed. Assaulted and raped by men housed with them.

Feelings: it's totally cool to have a mastectomy at 18, no one ever regrets it!
Facts: detransitioners are speaking out and are winning court cases with more to come.

If you aren't angry, upset and scared for children, young people amd women who are at risk of, are being, or will be harmed by this homophobic cult then yes, you have not been paying attention.

Trans men get hate too on this site and I don't see how they are effecting women's safety and rights.

Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring.

This is what misogynists have said about women's rights since the beginning of time.

If it's boring for you, go and do something else - no-one is forcing you to participate in any discussions against your will.

Talking about these issues is obviously important and relevant to many people, so why should we all just stop talking about what interests us because you're bored of it? We're not all here to entertain you!

Anyway, if you're so desperate to avoid talking about trans rights, perhaps it would be sensible to refrain from starting threads on the topic.

Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

If they're not the norm in your world, you're very fortunate. But extreme changes of policy that centre trans needs to the detriment of women's needs is the norm for many nowadays.

Most of the time, it's not the individual people with extreme views who directly affect our lives but the extremes of thought that lead to bizarre and harmful policy decisions.

We can't even be clear about the reasons we are to accept some men as women.

Is it because they are so distressed about their sex, we all need to take collective responsibility for their safety and say that are women?

Or is it that sex was incorrectly assigned at birth or that women isnt a sex category but a gendered category?

Because knowing the reasons would make a difference to the solution.

If we have a collectively responsibility to protect some men from the truth, then we cant have a list of situations were they are sometimes women, sometimes not. Excluding them from rugby is as distressing to them as excluding them from shopping at monsoon. Both are equal risks to their health.

If these men can cope with being excluded from womens rugby because they arent truely women, how real is their distress?

If women is a social category, and not based on sex, why have womens categories and spaces at all? Shouldnt we be stratching our heads wondering why we arent letting men routinely undress in changingrooms with girls?

Should trans men be housed in men’s prisons?
This debate affects trans men because they’re female. And misogyny affects all females

Show me the hate and I’ll report it, as I’m sure will many others.

<tumbleweed>

its boring and embarrassing. MN is so cringe on this topic

What's cringe is flat-out denial of biological reality to have a good virtue-signal or try and stay relevant.

I agree there are certain opinions that are 🙄🙄

I haven’t seen the racist posts at all, but you’re right, that’s not ok.
Can I ask how you feel about the racism from TRAs? As it seems particularly rife. It’s challenged a lot on Twitter particularly.

The trans actor threads I remember (don’t watch Dr Who so missed that one) are where fictional characters such as Bill in Malory Towers and George in Famous Five are represented as trans (in fan fiction, in plays), and that’s not ok. They were non conforming girls, representing many of us growing up.

As for pronouns are rohypnol - I fully agree with it. I’m autistic, I physically can’t use wrong sex pronouns for someone, and being expected to
use them means I can’t speak, I can’t participate in whatever’s going on. Dictating how others speak of you is Orwellian and shouldn’t be forced on anyone. It messes with your head, it gaslights growing children, people are being forced to announce their pronouns or face consequences. There’s nothing benign about using preferred pronouns.
As I said earlier, any other MH issue treats the person on the basis of their mentally ill thoughts (?). There would be outrage if anorexics could dictate that we had to agree they are fat, or to arrange liposuction. Why are we allowing any validation of delusions? It’s cruel.

Wear what the hell you want, learn to be happy in your own skin without largely experimental drugs and surgery (with research showing it doesn’t improve MH outcomes at all), learn to be happy without expecting validation from 100% of people - everyone else has to do this, no matter who they are - all other mental illnesses, disabilities, everyone. Except trans people/TRAs, and they get to dictate in this way or else. And they get away with it. Why? It’s so baffling.

Well the ‘trans folk’ who are trans women don’t have a dog in the fight when it comes to discussing women’s health because none of the issues that affect women and their health apply to them.

I feel sorry for trans men who feel language use about women’s health issues excludes them, but would respectfully point out that they know what their natal body is, and they should know what the health issues are that affect all women, and if you have been altering your body with cross sex hormones which will lead to an early menopause, vaginal atrophy, increased and early risk of osteoporosis and other painful and debilitating conditions it is your responsibility to educate yourself about them .

I think it is vitally important that all people with women’s bodies are informed about the medical changes that our bodies are subject too, and I think it is possible to be respectful to trans men by explaining that the language is the language that refers to women’s natal bodies and is used is to make information freely available and understandable by all women. The information and language that is used in someone’s personal health records and documentation is something to be discussed and agreed with your own health practitioners, but information and advice for the wider population must be accessible and clear to as many people in that population as possible, even at the risk of making some people feel uncomfortable about the language used.

Trans men get hate too on this site and I don't see how they are effecting women's safety and rights.

I disagree that they get "hate", but yes they do get opposition and challenge. Because even though they know perfectly what sex they are, they want all language to be rewritten to validate their gender identity as "not women". It's contributing to the erasure of the ability to speak about being female, and our shared common experiences.

Terms like "bonus hole" are grim and pornographic, as well as being homophobic.