To be bored of the trans hate?

[DaisyUpsy]

Ok, there are extremists (like the punch people in the face person), extremists can be found in many areas of life but is anyone else fed up of the trans stuff constantly being dragged up?

I've seen some ridiculous statements on here recently. Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring. Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

Not true in my experience. The youngsters I know see this or what it is and think it is wrong that they have lost their single sex spaces and sports. They view the kids who adopt a trans identity as the unhappy loners who need help, not surgery.

@ChatBFP that illusive middle-ground that many posters earlier claimed did not exist!

It doesn’t. It’s just broken down into smaller areas. Some you allow access and some you don’t.

There’s no middle ground for each of those.

You could have a male recognised as a male in elite sport but not elsewhere. How do you deal with that?

I am absolutely sure that there are gender critical people saying the equivalent of "If you see a TERF punch them in the face" at public meetings, human nature being what it is. I just haven't ever seen it.

There is a lot of extremism and manipulation I see from the more hardcore GC side.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4844841-feminist-postcards-in-the-tate-britain?page=1

The above thread claims that major London museums are selling Adult Human Female cards. They're not, it's a publicity stunt by an activist.

In the same thread it is claimed that it's illegal to say a woman is an adult human female. It is not illegal.

I see threads on here and on twitter with a photo of a gender neutral loo, claiming that women at that particular venue are forced to share with men because the only loos are mixed (the National Trust seems to be a particular target for this). However 30 seconds of thought and further research makes it clear that there are in fact single sex facilities available elsewhere on the premises.

The recent threads about Jo's cervical cancer trust publishing a page with terms like "bonus hole" on it also grossly misrepresent the facts and what that webpage is trying to achieve. It is not to erase women or force women to not use the word vagina.

There was a thread in FWR (now deleted I think, but it ran for a while) basically laughing at the fact that the TW who did the Bud Light advert was scared to leave their house because of death threats they received as a result of doing that advert.

I have seen posts and threads calling trans people "it" that have been allowed to remain, posts claiming that all TW are perverts or paedophiles, there are is even a post early on in this thread that says "there is no such thing as trans".

I am GC. I do not believe TWAW or TMAM. I believe single sex spaces are important.

I also think threads targeting particular individuals or misrepresenting situations in order to manipulate people and whip up distrust and hatred are awful, and MN is rife with this.

Yabvvvu. You want it to stop, tell than the the trans lobby. The great majority would happily live side by side, but not when women’s rights are being consistently eroded

I meant that the NHS has a finite number of appointments and staff able to carry our certain procedures.

IMO in cases of intimate female procedures no male should carry them out.
Obviously this changes if it’s an emergency procedure, but women should still have the right to request female staff if they can’t cope with male staff. Health care should be about the needs of the patient first.
Whilst there might be staff shortages there’s no shortage of female nurses or drs.
Any male claiming discrimination on the basis of being trans and wanting to carry out smear tests should not be a nurse in the first place. A decent man would understand why women have these boundaries.

The problem with that is we know there isnt a reliable diagnosis for men who genuinely want to be women and therapist cannot know who is a potential danger to women, so safeguard isnt a realistic option. Also, wanting to be a women doesnt mean anyone else sees you as a women. How can society treat men as women, when they are seen as men?

No, we don't know this and there's disagreement in the psychiatric world about whether gender dysmorphia is a thing or not. So many of the people who were diagnosed with it have other co-morbidities, including other categorisable MH conditions, autism and sexuality issues that it's really not clear whether such a thing as gender dysphoria exists. The children attending GIDS and being put on hormone and then surgical pathways were noted to be suffering from autism, MH issues, sexual and psychological abuse and the stress of living in homophobic families. Susie Green, founder of Mermaids, transitioned her child because of homophobia in the family. The fact that so many looked-after children are transitioned tells you a lot.

There's a growing consensus that autogynephilia is a far, far bigger driver than previously recognised. 4% of the male population are estimated to have this paraphilia. It's a sexual fetish: they are turned on by the idea of being a woman and getting into women's space.

No woman knows, when a bloke dressed as a woman turns up in her changing room at the pool, whether they're a 'nice' transsexual with dysphoria or an autogynephile trying to sneak photos to put on his private FB group to prove that he was in the changing room with women. And women will feel the same apprehension and concern whatever label the man carries. Festishes are for one's private life: they shouldn't require the support of other people.

I feel terrible for your dd. I’m gutted that so many women seem to have zero sympathy for teenage girls like her and are happy to make their lives even tougher to further the desires of males. I remember the hideousness of heavy periods and actually collapsing a few times. Having boys around would have been grim.

I was 18 when I met a trans woman charge nurse on my first ward as a student nurse. That was 41 years ago. I don’t remember anyone chanting “TWAW!” or “If you see a TERF punch ‘em in the fucking face!” however. You may think this is all shiny and brand new but some of us have seen it all and had no problem with any of it until it started encroaching on our rights as women.

If being pro-women’s rights means being anti-trans rights, doesn’t that mean there is a fundamental clash of rights?

Not really compelling there.

Usually public speaking is watchable. See if you can find it otherwise no, it’s just you.

I am absolutely sure that there are gender critical people saying the equivalent of "If you see a TERF punch them in the face" at public meetings, human nature being what it is. I just haven't ever seen it.

How convenient that there appears to be no evidence of these events.

@IAmSalmaFuckingHayek

I remember a thread where posters were up in arms because they heard a trans actor had been given a role in Dr Who. Posters seemed to think that trans actor shouldn't be allowed to work on successful TV shows. I think that's extreme.

I remember a thread where posters were fawning over a know racist because they know what a woman is. I am a black woman and found this very disturbing that a board purporting to be feminist were happy to throw women of colour under a bus. I was told (in these words) to "pipe down and get my own house in order." I am unsure of what house she was referring to. It went completely unchallenged apart from by another poster who is also black. I think that is extreme.

I think the phrase "pronouns are rohypnol" is hyperbolic rubbish.

YABU

YABU. I’m sickened by this ideology being normalised in society, in schools and workplaces.

If we weren’t so preoccupied with gender stereotypes, kids wouldn’t feel they were trans. Then the AGP types couldn’t hide.

It’s a very dangerous ideology, it’s terrifying that this is in schools. As a parent of an autistic child, it’s even more worrying.

The whole trans movement is regressive, homophobic and misogynistic.

The debate has got extremists on both sides now. The whole thing is out of control.

When you have 'punch terfs in the face' on one side and Kellie-Jay praising Tommy bloody Robinson on the other, is it any wonder most people despair?!

Sadly I think adults are letting them down on this. It’s in schools, they are being taught this.

I don’t think they are thick, just indoctrinated. It’s hard to fight especially if you are threatened with sanctions as we saw with the recent clip of the teacher.

We owe it to them to change that.

When you have 'punch terfs in the face' on one side and Kellie-Jay praising Tommy bloody Robinson on the other, is it any wonder most people despair?!

How is it equivalent? I disagree with her praising him, if she has, but a violent male telling a larger bunch of resentful, entitled males to punch women in the face isn't equal to that, you're just attempting to "both sides" the issue.

Is praising someone unpleasant really the equivalent of encouraging violence?

@Flickersy I disagree that they are extreme.

Adult human female, whilst not illegal, can be a dangerous slogan to say or wear. Women have been fired for stating that a woman is an adult human female. Women have had the police weaponised against them for having the view that men cannot be women.

As for loos - why should women have to
walk far to get to a single sex loo? Or to a different floor? When I’m all cases I’ve seen the men’s loo remains the men’s loo - how is this not utterly sexist and misogynistic?

I personally don’t believe in gender. It brings nothing to society but harm. To that end, deep down, I don’t believe anyone is trans. I fully accept and support anyone living their lives as they wish, but at the end of the day they are male or female.

@NewNameNigel

I think it should exist. I don't really think it does in mainstream form, which is the difficulty. If it did, then it wouldn't be difficult for Keir Starmer (who is an otherwise decent and moderate bloke) when asked about the issue, to clearly elucidate his position. He would be able to say "we generally try to treat trans women the same as women, but they are not female and sometimes this does matter - we should debate this respectfully", rather than repeating "trans women are women" without really truly meaning it and trying to move on asap. If the mainstream debate existed, then Stonewall would probably be best adapting to it, because I truly believe that this is where most people are (even if they disagree on points of detail). I suspect that's what people mean on this thread - if the accepted Stonewall / BBC position is "trans women are women, no debate", then there really is nowhere to go and there is no middle ground for those who don't agree with this ( like you!). Most GC women here believe in third spaces where needed, for example.

I agree with you on the appointments now you have explained - of course, if you turn up to a mammogram and you are not comfortable with the practitioner and it's not practical to switch others around, then you have to go home and wait to attend another appointment. You should be able to get one with another practitioner by being put on that person's list and waiting for an available slot. That's just good sense and of course you will be seen later than otherwise. No one needs to label you as a bigot or punish you though (Brighton NHS trust has form for this). (Obviously, if lots of people are not comfortable, then the NHS has to consider what it might do to proactively manage the issue, by warning people in advance or getting a chaperone etc - it's no one's fault, it's just life).

This!

Nope because KJK hasn't praised Tommy Robinson at all. And nor has she ever called for one single person to be punched. Or decapitated.