To be bored of the trans hate?

[DaisyUpsy]

Ok, there are extremists (like the punch people in the face person), extremists can be found in many areas of life but is anyone else fed up of the trans stuff constantly being dragged up?

I've seen some ridiculous statements on here recently. Everything gets something added related to trans when it's totally irrelevant. It's getting boring. Trans extremists are not the norm so can we stop pretending they are?

@merderforlife exactly! I want to be a small child. Can I sit next to your small child at school and lunch when they let me in to the local primary?

Does any of the following depress you?

Males in female sports
And prisons, refuges
Males threatening violence and actual violence against women

Or is it just women speaking

I'm fed up with it, on the Wimbledon school car crash threads some posters were insinuating that the driver was trans and then there's posters insinuating that the young person involved in the BBC presenter scandal is also trans and that the £35K was for surgery.

Bore off.

If this was on the FWR I didn't see those threads.

YABU. I am not seeing trans people condemning the appalling trans extremism that women are being bombarded with, which is at best tacit acceptance and at worst complicity. When I see trans organisations calling out the threats and violence against women, the erasure of necessary separate space and categories for biological women in so many walks of life, the grotesquely harmful practises against children, the homophobia and retrograde gendered stereotyping implicit in most of the trans messaging…. then I’ll considering believing that trans extremists are not the norm.

At the moment zero evidence suggests otherwise!

Why would those threads be in FWR?

They weren't, they were in AIBU and Chat.

I hear the same story from my friends who are secondary school teachers.

This isn't the gotcha that you think it is because I have stated that I have issues with both trans and GC ideologies.

1. Sport - in an ideal world we would have data on exactly what the average difference being a transwoman makes for each sport. In the absence of this this I think that in elite sport where there is money at stake they should be sex segregated unless it can be shown that being a transwoman makes no difference. I think that in local teams that meet on Sunday and play football or whatever together it is up to the individuals in the team.
2. Prisons – Someone who has committed violent crimes against decides that they want to transition after being found guilty obviously does not belong in a women’s prison. However, I don’t think that is the same as someone who transitioned 15 years ago and has no history of violence and is in for non payment of a TV licence. There might be a case that the second person should be in a women’s prison. I would say this should be case by case using common sense.
3. Intimate care – I think anyone should be able to turn down intimate care from anyone for any reason as body autonomy is the most fundamental human right. However, if you turn down NHS care because you don’t like the demographic of the person giving the care the natural consequence is that you will have to wait longer and may have to pay for private where there is more scope to pick and choose.
4. women’s shelter and rape crisis centres – I think everyone in this situation deserves somewhere to go, including transwomen. I guess I would advocate for sufficient facilities for all, some shared with transwomen some not.
5. women’s scholarships and prizes – this depends entirely on the prize and what is at stake. A raffle for a women’s group? Who cares. Someone who socially transitioned at 14 and then lived as a women after that getting a women’s prize at 25, maybe. A middle aged transwomen who climbed corporate ladder and then transitioned at 50 claiming that did as a woman, obviously wrong.

I actually wrote a post earlier with some of the issues that I had seen with the GC narrative on this forum and no one responded that I could see.

That exactly.

Or in the case of my daughter the slightly over 30s.

Other places have ongoing Hamster wheel threads for subjects where people are arguing from different premises and that will, by their very nature, never actually go anywhere. Anything touching on the controversy is drop kicked into the thread concerned.

Why do you keep saying this when it's obvious to all but the wilfully blind that the "hatefulness" and extremism is very very clearly coming from the side that you're apparently keen to defend

And what about all the they/them people promoting regressive stereotypes? I’ve been called an egg and accused of having internalised transphobia for being a gender non-conforming woman. If you don’t do makeup, don’t do heels, wear unisex clothes, don’t do dresses/skirts, have a stereotypical ‘masculine’ personality and hobbies, and do nothing to pander to the male gaze, people don’t see you as a woman and are desperate to label you non-binary.

Iirc it was one comment on each of those threads. Very long threads.

MN is one of the only forums that allows discussion of gender ideology. Most other places are “no debate”, with members deleted and banned for asking pertinent questions regarding women’s rights and safety.

Even the most “extreme” GC poster (still waiting for those examples op) doesn’t meet the extremism of bog standard trans ideology, even if you discount the threats they love to send women’s way.
“Humans can’t change sex” is neither violence nor extreme, yet it has been twisted to be on a par with fascism. Deluded bullshit.

I'm so bored of it. Everything om MN seems to be about Trans issues.

Really? You could just as easily say that "everything on MN" is about the Royal Family, or dogs or parking disputes.

I find anyone who dismisses the systematic destruction of safe spaces and opportunities for women, cheerleads young people onto medicalised pathways (sometimes removal of healthy body parts to be replaced by say, pretend vagina or penis, such fun!) and dismisses sexual fetishists using a baby for their cosplay,

While calling those of us who challenge this as pedalling "trans hate",

as not just boring but fucking dangerous

@BackOfTheMum5net I know several transwomen in my wider social circle. I don't actually see them as women at all.

I’ve been called an egg

@GnomishInventions an egg? Is this a new insult?

It’s similar to the term ‘closeted’ i.e. someone who is trans but have not necessarily realised it yet.

That exactly.

Or in the case of my daughter the slightly over 30s.

Sorry to disappoint, but women who believe in the more extreme side of gender identity politics are a fringe group. I am in my 40s, my mum in her 60s, my gran in her 90s. We aren't completely obsolete, we get a say in women's rights issues too. I'm not bothered what anyone else thinks, especially middle aged people trying to be down with the kids.

Absolutely fed up with all the anti trans hate on this site. Early on it was all anti transwomen, now the haters have started on transmen and also are becoming ever more homophobic.

Much of this nonsense comes from the evanglical Christian right in the US, who put large sums of money into funding the anti trans and anti abortion lobbies: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/trump-us-christian-spending-global-revealed/

Fortunately, the younger generation recognise this GC nonsense for what it is and it will eventually peter out. However, Mumsnet will lose out with no young people wanting to join.

an egg? Is this a new insult?

An unhatched trans person. It's a term more common on TRA forums.

.Did I read that right? You have a 14 year old daughter that use a chest binder? I hope not

EnjoyingTheSilence
I’m bored of all hate, but am particularly concerned about the threats to women’s safety and rights

I understand some of the concerns. Unfortunately the way some (not all) people are going about things is quite extremist in itself and won't encourage anyone to listen to anything valid, it's just obliterated by the pure hatefulness.

///

Ok.

If the way this is being challenged isn't to your satisfaction then perhaps you can suggest some alternatives?

Be sure to bear in mind that TRAs are very open to discussion and debate. NOT.

And I'm also assuming in the interest of balance you are writing similar posts on other forums to chastise people who are actively threatening violence towards GC women?

Note that this behaviour is always one way.

I’m not looking for a gotcha. I’m looking for clarity on something

1. sports- how do you think it will affect women if they’re forced to compete and share changing rooms with males until they become elite sports level? Do you not think that will stop many women from participating who could have one day become elite level?
2. prisons- what is your cut off here? How long do they have to have been saying they were women? Should trans men be put in men’s prisons?
3. intimate care- a disabled woman request female only intimate care. This is not about “disliking demographics”. It’s about females being vulnerable to males and affording women dignity and safety.
4. women’s shelter and rape crisis centres- you’ve conceded there should be female only facilities so we can agree here
5. women’s scholarships and prizes- consider universities offering scholarships for women in maths. There is a possibility here that these places could all be taken by males who identify as women. At what point would you say this was too many?

No it doesn't come from Trump in the U.K. it's a grassroots feminist movement and I am extremely proud of us British women who are globally associated with the resistance to the overreach of gender identity ideology. As Mumsnet also is, so that's probably part of why people get so worked up about this site.