Page 26 | MN needs a closer watch of FWR

BodegaSushi · 2023-06-30T11:59:43+00:00

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'. Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision. This is the thread I'm referring to here. Disney went woke now they're going broke http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

SunnyEgg · 03/07/2023 10:35

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:25

Except many ethnic people have told you and are trying to tell you that it is a hostile environment for them, a point you conveniently seem to ignore.

Im about done trying on this thread. It’s exhausting and even rain beating down on a leopard can’t wash out the spots.

I am trying to understand what you mean. I’m asking for clarity as I’m not sure how much you, and pp, object to the basic statements on FWR or not

You don’t have to go because I’m asking directly where you stand, it might help us see where you are coming from

MavisMcMinty · 03/07/2023 10:35

I have noticed your derisory and condescending tone.

WOMEN! MIND YOUR TONE!

Like that you mean?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2023 10:36

Nb i didn't see the Disney thread so obviously if that was different then this post might be irrelevant).

No, IMO it was a thread that would have been equally at home in AIBU or chat.

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:36

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 03/07/2023 10:01

'all female people' Except many ethnic people have told you and are trying to tell you that it is a hostile environment for them, a point you conveniently seem to ignore. I haven't missed the point of the board and I say that as a non white biological, British born female. You have missed the point of my post and that of many other ethnic women. This OP wanted to discuss racial undertones and almost everything else has been discussed than the original point. We are happy to discuss protecting the rights of natural born females but women on these boards also need to acknowledge that those rights they wish to protect are often not fully accessible to ethnic women.

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And genuinely, you seem to have a very narrow view on what is discussed on the board and what some of the exact same posters are doing in real life. My group has now started to work with a neighborhood group what is mostly ‘non white female’ people of all ages, religions and ethnicities.

Could you tell us why you think that should be publicised to show people our ‘right thinking’ when doing so could put those women and girls in danger?

Yet we are there gathering information on where we can help. But please, do keep up with the accusations. We will keep working behind the scenes regardless of your and other’s accusations.

AlisonDonut · 03/07/2023 10:37

I think we are now at the stage where people are just calling people racists or racist adjacent or racist sympathisers or racist defenders so that they snap and say something that can be deemed racist to prove the point.

The Royal We cannot stop people posting things before they post things.

The Royal We are wrong if we report it and also wrong if we don't.

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:37

And by that socrates talk to us. Tell us using actual examples so we can understand what you are referring to.

AmuseBish · 03/07/2023 10:38

I think one way to combat racism is for people to be honest. We can't get anywhere if people won't engage honestly about what their position even is.

Try and set out your thinking, and take on board others' posts in their own words - not constantly rewriting them to say something else.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2023 10:39

Try and set out your thinking, and take on board others' posts in their own words - not constantly rewriting them to say something else.

Yes, it's unhelpful that people are reading stuff into posts without directly calling out the posters.

MargotBamborough · 03/07/2023 10:42

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2023 09:48

People had definitive proof that 98% of sexual assault and all rapes were carried out by black people? Because that is "what we are saying" about male people. Sounds like he's a massive racist if he believes that.

Once you see it's all based on, and drenched in, deliberate dishonesty, you can't un-see it.

Exactly. See also "why are you happy for lesbians to be in female spaces". Er, because they are women and have equal rights to access them? It's you who are implying straight women are the default and lesbians have less rights to access their own spaces.

This argument is actually a massive giveaway.

It shows that they can't conceive of someone getting undressed in a space shared with people whose biological sex they are attracted to without having a sexual motive or presenting a risk of inappropriate sexual behaviour in that space.

If that's how they think then that is even more reason why I do not want to share changing spaces with heterosexual males, unlike lesbians, who I would have no problem getting changed in front of because I have never been sexually harassed by a lesbian and am pretty sure that lesbians sexually harassing women is not a widespread problem in society, the way men sexually harassing women is.

DeanElderberry · 03/07/2023 10:43

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting

as a British born female

are you suggesting that only people who are British born have a right to comment on this board?

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:44

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 03/07/2023 10:27

@ReleasetheCrackHen

What is the endgame here?
You obviously believe many posters on FWR are white racists, never mind the fact that there's no proof and you don't know the ethnicity of the posters there. Once someone has been accused of racism there's no way back as far as I can see. If anyone says they're not racist that's used as proof that they are indeed racist. What do you actually expect to happen here?
I'm certainly not going to accept responsibility for people just because I use the same message board as them.
What do you actually want to happen? FWR to close? The whole of MN to close?
What would be the ideal outcome?

An admission that there is a problem would be a start.

You (and others) obviously don’t think there is any problem with racism by your ‘no proof’ comment and saying it’s a matter of my ‘believing’ rather than an admission of the fact that there is racism on FWR and it is a problem.

The amount of effort to even get to you asking these questions has completely drained me. Especially since one poster makes a comment that TRAs can be racist and it’s head nods all around, and oh yes it is awful isn’t it. No proof was demanded. No one was gaslit by assertions it’s not racism. No one was accused of smearing, defaming, or trying to silence TRAs.

But when a mirror is held up to the rest of the posters on FWR…all that and more has happened. And sorry, but that’s a hostile response. And again, I’m drained, exhausted, demoralised and you know what? Feel a bit betrayed.

So I’m going to leave the thread for my own mental well-being.

MargotBamborough · 03/07/2023 10:44

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:16

It is only defamation if you can prove there is no racism on FWR (Which you cannot do) and that you have suffered some loss in reputation and/or income (which is impossible on an anonymous forum)

If you were secure in your anti-racist self, my posts would not have offended you at all. You’d be thinking “yeah racism bad, I’m happy to report it and will keep a closer eye on things that Black posters say are problematic”

But no, you are instead in full deny and counter attack- that’s not the actions of an anti-racist in support of better self-moderation of MN.

So, why have I touched a nerve in you particularly?

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No, you are implying that we are racist or denying or making excuses for racism by suggesting that it is rampant and we are pretending not to see it.

I wholly reject that accusation and consider it defamatory.

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:44

And I don’t think any has denied there has been racism on the board. Have they? We report it if we think it has come from a racist perspective or is clearly racist.

We deny the board has more of an issue than other boards have and we point out that the board is open for every one who wants to post. We cannot control who posts. But we deny that by posting there we assume the mantle of racist.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2023 10:45

This argument is actually a massive giveaway.

It shows that they can't conceive of someone getting undressed in a space shared with people whose biological sex they are attracted to without having a sexual motive or presenting a risk of inappropriate sexual behaviour in that space.

If that's how they think then that is even more reason why I do not want to share changing spaces with heterosexual males, unlike lesbians, who I would have no problem getting changed in front of because I have never been sexually harassed by a lesbian and am pretty sure that lesbians sexually harassing women is not a widespread problem in society, the way men sexually harassing women is.

Completely agree.

midgetastic · 03/07/2023 10:46

No one is saying there is no racism
Everyone is saying why pick on FWR

Do you really only see racism there ?!?

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:46

DeanElderberry · 03/07/2023 10:43

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting

as a British born female

are you suggesting that only people who are British born have a right to comment on this board?

I am not British born. I suspect many of us are not or are and now living in other countries. There is a diverse group of people on this board.

MargotBamborough · 03/07/2023 10:46

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:18

I haven’t claimed FWR is disproportionately racist. That’s been the weak sauce defence to the evidenced concerns regarding racism on FWR.

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You are aware that you are posting on a thread demanding that MNHQ crack down specifically on the FWR board where bigotry of all kinds has been allowed to flourish except that you can't prove it because the bigotry in question is being deleted, right?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2023 10:46

The amount of effort to even get to you asking these questions has completely drained me. Especially since one poster makes a comment that TRAs can be racist and it’s head nods all around, and oh yes it is awful isn’t it. No proof was demanded. No one was gaslit by assertions it’s not racism. No one was accused of smearing, defaming, or trying to silence TRAs.

I gave a specific example, and if you want proof I can get it. Do you?

MargotBamborough · 03/07/2023 10:50

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:33

No one has said you are racist. No one has labelled you.
There has been discussion and it’s been pretty much Black posters being gaslit by assertions that what they are seeing and experiencing isn’t valid.
You are literally defending the racists in your midst.

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How on earth do you think you know the ethnicity of anyone posting on here?

MargotBamborough · 03/07/2023 10:52

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:44

An admission that there is a problem would be a start.

You (and others) obviously don’t think there is any problem with racism by your ‘no proof’ comment and saying it’s a matter of my ‘believing’ rather than an admission of the fact that there is racism on FWR and it is a problem.

The amount of effort to even get to you asking these questions has completely drained me. Especially since one poster makes a comment that TRAs can be racist and it’s head nods all around, and oh yes it is awful isn’t it. No proof was demanded. No one was gaslit by assertions it’s not racism. No one was accused of smearing, defaming, or trying to silence TRAs.

But when a mirror is held up to the rest of the posters on FWR…all that and more has happened. And sorry, but that’s a hostile response. And again, I’m drained, exhausted, demoralised and you know what? Feel a bit betrayed.

So I’m going to leave the thread for my own mental well-being.

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One final time.

Please provide some evidence of someone making racist posts on FWR which have been allowed to stand.

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:54

“Especially since one poster makes a comment that TRAs can be racist and it’s head nods all around, and oh yes it is awful isn’t it. No proof was demanded. No one was gaslit by assertions it’s not racism. No one was accused of smearing, defaming, or trying to silence TRAs.”

You are showing very simplified thinking here.

If we show all the millions of pieces of evidence we have, that most of us have seen and some experienced, we will have derailed the discussion. The people you are accusing of ‘nodding’ along have seen it. We don’t need the ‘proof’ that some trans activists are inherently racist. No one ever says all of them are.

so, you using this as some kind of support for your argument is dishonest.

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:56

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/07/2023 10:46

The amount of effort to even get to you asking these questions has completely drained me. Especially since one poster makes a comment that TRAs can be racist and it’s head nods all around, and oh yes it is awful isn’t it. No proof was demanded. No one was gaslit by assertions it’s not racism. No one was accused of smearing, defaming, or trying to silence TRAs.

I gave a specific example, and if you want proof I can get it. Do you?

Let’s not forget a regular who posts about racism in general on the board who has been very racist themselves. But likes to forget that cos it was under a different name.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:56

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:44

And I don’t think any has denied there has been racism on the board. Have they? We report it if we think it has come from a racist perspective or is clearly racist.

We deny the board has more of an issue than other boards have and we point out that the board is open for every one who wants to post. We cannot control who posts. But we deny that by posting there we assume the mantle of racist.

First response to my first post was a flat out denial.
If it was a joke, it’s a joke about racism.

That’s my final gift to you.

SunnyEgg · 03/07/2023 10:59

Why are posters being evasive on simple questions

Helleofabore · 03/07/2023 10:59

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/07/2023 10:56

First response to my first post was a flat out denial.
If it was a joke, it’s a joke about racism.

That’s my final gift to you.

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So you take one poster’s opinion and that is applied to all people! That is a generalisation and is a weak discussion tactic.

Do you see your absolutist approach? It must get very difficult to live in the world with that approach.