MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

And there it is. You obviously have not been been on the board lately. Over the past few days, I have mentioned that specific phrase ‘black birthing bodies’ twice as examples of where these organisations go too far.

It is only defamation if you can prove there is no racism on FWR (Which you cannot do) and that you have suffered some loss in reputation and/or income (which is impossible on an anonymous forum)

If you were secure in your anti-racist self, my posts would not have offended you at all. You’d be thinking “yeah racism bad, I’m happy to report it and will keep a closer eye on things that Black posters say are problematic”

But no, you are instead in full deny and counter attack- that’s not the actions of an anti-racist in support of better self-moderation of MN.

So, why have I touched a nerve in you particularly?

I haven’t claimed FWR is disproportionately racist. That’s been the weak sauce defence to the evidenced concerns regarding racism on FWR.

How responsible do you feel for what other people post?

This is your take away? That it’s let racists be racist, I’m not responsible?

When people ask you to show FWR is disproportionately racist it's because unless you can show it is there is no reason related to racism to have an extra watch on FWR

Which then makes people think you are just another person who would like FWR shut down and you don't actually care about racism anywhere in MN

I absolutely agree that it is something to discuss. And that there are many specific issues to address.

However, if a person is claiming that it is an issue NOT discussed on the board this thread is about, then that is a falsity.

I guess what I was partly trying to say is that I learned about this on FWR and to me it is an example of structural racism that I think is both more of an issue than the odd, unclear and obtuse accusations of racism being levelled against FWR by some posters here and a tangible issue to move forward on.

No - sunny was clearly asking the question she asked. You can tell by the words she used, so no need to make up your own.

What is the answer?

This is your take away? That it’s let racists be racist, I’m not responsible?

Can you not answer the question, rather than make assumptions about what posters mean?

We’re not all checking everyone’s posts before they go up on FWR

If something goes up that we feel is off it’s reported

As I’m sure you do as well

Also can you answer explicitly what you find problematic, does it include that women cannot change sex as posted on FWR?

“those rights they wish to protect are often not fully accessible to ethnic women.”

Which rights are inaccessible to ethnic women ? Do you think that us working on multiple fronts means that ultimately those rights will be also made fully accessible?

Or, do you believe a board set up to only address the issues of where those protections are allowed to be accessed by male people, making them more inaccessible should change focus?

Honestly, if you posted a thread about where the demands from one group is causing detriment to a particular set of rights that you feel is overlooked, and you didn’t seek to shame other posters with your posts, do you think you would be ignored?

You accuse me of ignoring you, yet you also ignore the women who are not ‘non white’ who do post there who post there every single day.

How do you propose that posters on FWR manage or control the people that post racist words?

How do the Royal We stop them posting when we only know what they post after they have posted?

Except many ethnic people have told you and are trying to tell you that it is a hostile environment for them, a point you conveniently seem to ignore.

Im about done trying on this thread. It’s exhausting and even rain beating down on a leopard can’t wash out the spots.

I would love the two boards to be rejoined. I really would.

Don't suppose you can answer Sunny's very pertinent question before you go @ReleasetheCrackHen?

Is the Royal We said:
I cannot be friends with black women
They are everywhere
You can't wash out their spots

You'd be rightly angry.

Yet you can say it and that's all fine.

@ReleasetheCrackHen

What is the endgame here?
You obviously believe many posters on FWR are white racists, never mind the fact that there's no proof and you don't know the ethnicity of the posters there. Once someone has been accused of racism there's no way back as far as I can see. If anyone says they're not racist that's used as proof that they are indeed racist. What do you actually expect to happen here?
I'm certainly not going to accept responsibility for people just because I use the same message board as them.
What do you actually want to happen? FWR to close? The whole of MN to close?
What would be the ideal outcome?

Yes. There is very much a tone of ‘we have given you this label and you are not allowed the discussion to understand why, just accept it and capitulate.

Sorry, your moral superiority seems rather like authoritarianism to me.

There are LOADS of batshit posters on FWR by the way.

The Royal We have arguments all the fucking time

I've argued with some people that on a completely different thread we totally agree with each other on

Many posters on FWR are blokes. As I may have said earlier, one LARPS as a police officer monitoring and correcting women all the time.

Many are blokes pretending to be women [ooh the irony]

If you have an issue on a thread get on the thread.

Taking notes about people's 'tone' for use in future posts to have a go at them is pretty sad by the way.

Right, so it is your view that the racism on FWR is at an acceptable level and you have zero interest in working to be a shining example of how feminists can be anti-racist if they put their minds to.

FWR is not interested in leading the way to combat racism on MN. They are just as racist as the rest of MN, and that is good enough for them. And anyone suggesting they do more to grassroots moderate the threads has an agenda to “shut FWR down” (even though no one pointing out the racism has even remotely implied this).

This is so toxic and depressing.

How do you expect people to stop other people posting?

So what do we need to do to be anti racist?

Stop believing that surrogacy is a trade in babies when it clearly is a trade in babies?

Start believing that men can be women?

I just have no idea what you want.

No one has said you are racist. No one has labelled you.
There has been discussion and it’s been pretty much Black posters being gaslit by assertions that what they are seeing and experiencing isn’t valid.
You are literally defending the racists in your midst.

That might require a bit of honesty.

Back to the original op. I do genuinely think people from other bits of MN drop in here more often now, as people are more aware of the issues around gender self-id. I think with this comes the same causally thoughtless comments we get all over MN - could be racist, homophobic, sexist, just a bit thick, not able to articulate or honestly answer a question. (Nb i didn't see the Disney thread so obviously if that was different then this post might be irrelevant).

We've talked about varying approaches to reporting this. I'm generally happy to report unless it is something that needs discussing. Perhaps Bunbury guidance could kick in here more often.

However I know from years of posting on here that the regulars are thoughtful and generally anti-racist - anything that might seem racist usually gets discussed or called out. But I've rarely seen it. The maternity death rates of Black women have been discussed for a long time - I remember bringing it up with my real life friends over and over when I saw the data showing the extent of it. It's shocking.

I maintain that the word "woke" isn't helpful to anyone so I don't use it - people use it and understand it in varying ways so it's better to use a more descriptive or accurate term for whatever you're talking about (I've actually got my grandparents to agree this!)

So what do we need to do to be anti racist?

Stop believing that surrogacy is a trade in babies when it clearly is a trade in babies?

Start believing that men can be women?

I just have no idea what you want.

I hope it's noted that there are never any answers to these questions.