MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

@AmuseBish funnily enough most of my deleted posts are about a legal person. Yet I never report theirs. The deletion to allowed to remain ratio is about equal!. (Luckily Twitter don't delete me for saying exactly the same comments).

No one is making anyone look racist. If it talks like a racist and acts like a racist...

@Theyreallydidaskthat I don't think you understand what @AlisonDonut means

I'm tired of people making entirely baseless assertions in attempts to smear women and stop us talking.

Enough.

jane

no, I don’t think they did

there was a poster ages and ages ago who was arguing on the ‘tra side’ and made a sarcastic comments about section 28 and was then all over twitter as an example of the homophobia of FWR

(quite obviously there are racist, homophobic etc posters on all the boards)

I started reading through thread and gave up. As usual the topic of racism neatly sidestepped/diverted for a TWAW vs TRA/GC bun fight. I am sure that many women on the FWR boards are not racist, however it seems to me that there is:

A vocal group who are, or who dismiss the relevance of ethnicity in FWR discussions.

A larger group who are happy to let things slide/not get drawn in.
This means that the overriding impression is left by those who at best can be described at problematic when it comes to racism or at worst actually racist. There is a refusal to engage / recognise the legitimacy of ethnic posters. Making these women as much our enemy as any mysoginsyt. Most women recognise and accept descriptions of sexist and misogynistic behaviour even when no overt words are spoken or over action is made. Ethnic women are held to much more exacting standards when it comes to racism. Research and statistics galore exit to prove and document the problems ethnic people in this country face but that not enough for some on the FWR boards. It's all prove this, what about that... Trans , CIS, Surrogacy or any other distraction as on this thread. Let me say it loudly for those in the back IME RACISM APPEARS ON MANY THREADS ACROSS MUMSNET. The Royal Family board should especially come with a health warning for ethnic posters! I don't know about other ethnic posters, but I expected a little more from posters on the FWR because I thought the focus was 'Womens' rights as in ALL women not just White women. Perhaps that is the problem, having a higher expectation of a more informed and nuanced discussion the FWR boards. It seems to me that people are more focused on not being seen as racist that they refuse to take the time to see the truth for ethnic women.

It seems to me that people are more focused on not being seen as racist that they refuse to take the time to see the truth for ethnic women.

As a white woman I would like you to explain to me how, other than calling out the overt racism of trans women are a subset of women just like black women, that I often see espoused by TRAs either on FWR or on twitter I am failing to see the truth for ethnic women?

I do my best in my life to be fair to everyone, regardless of race, class , age, disability , religion etc. so If I have missed a truth for ethnic women on FWR please do take the time to explain.

I completely agree.

I'm tired of seeing anyone who disagrees with the FWR party line being rounded on, called a troll, a man, accused of not being a real lesbian, mocked, patronised, and insulted.

It's just an attempt to shut down women you don't like to hear speak.

I see black font on white background.

I have no idea how anyone tells who is whatever ethnic background on here.

If we are to now infer race from the words typed is that not racist in itself?

All these people so angry about things that they themselves seem to be choosing to ignore by not engaging, and just having a go at the people who are talking saying they are talking wrong things.

Bored shitless of it to be honest. They need to pitch in themselves rather than watch and take notes just to start another thread telling us we are doing it wrong.

'Ethnic women are held to much more exacting standards when it comes to racism. Research and statistics galore exit to prove and document the problems ethnic people in this country face but that not enough for some on the FWR boards. It's all prove this, what about that... Trans , CIS, Surrogacy or any other distraction as on this thread. Let me say it loudly for those in the back IME RACISM APPEARS ON MANY THREADS ACROSS MUMSNET.'

Trans v race is totally a White women distraction technique on this thread. Anything to avoid the elephant in the room - Race

No this is actually just bullshit.

I am disabled. I am a woman who has experienced misogyny.

Women are held to more exacting standards when it comes to womanhood than male pretenders these days.

Unless you can come up with specifics it's just hyperbolic nonsense designed to shut women like me up. No. Not happening.

I meant refer to Socrates earlier point. Sorry @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting not meaning to steal your thunder.

I agree with @Socrateswasrightaboutvoting . Trans issues are important issues they different to Black issues as are issues for the the Disabled.

But WHO is responsible for conflating these issues?

And I'll say it out loud till the cows come home issues that affect women of any personality, ethic minority, neurotype or ability or disability are different from those that affect men.

That includes men who consider themselves to be women.

Women's should be for any female. Any. It doesn't have to include males.

The problems started. And should end right there.

Are you saying you are always in FWR posting reams of data and facts and people say 'no, that's not enough' in some way? Have you any examples?

Is calling something a 'white woman distraction technique' not racist?

In a discussion about race, that is what an ethnic person wants to discuss, this may touch on trans but the core issue will be race. Issues with Transwomen and misogyny are unlikely to be the only issues you have as a disabled women. Those issues are not likely what you want to focus on if you are having a discussion about how able-ist our society can be and the issues that this causes you.

ON FWR?

You think that an ethnic minority woman has had more in common with a trans woman than anyone else?

When has that happened?

Or is this just made up shit to try to shut women up?

I've been on those boards for years and have NEVER seen this come up.

That’s not what the poster objected to. It isn’t how that thread reads at all. The language used throughout the thread appropriates from slavery and the slave trade as well as referring to slavery and the slave trade.

Surrogacy is referred to as the baby trade or trafficking in infants. The mother “sells” her baby. The parents “buy babies” that are “grown to order” Infants are referred to as “merchandise”, “commodities” and even “farmed like dogs”.

More than one poster explicitly equates surrogacy to the Atlantic slave trade and slavery.

I would encourage you to read the thread in its entirety. As the poster does indeed expand their point and clarify their ethnicity.

I should think my saying that posters who are against surrogacy are anti-surrogacy shouldn’t be a concern when discussing racism.

Black women had serious issues because of the colour of our skin, long before Trans women arrived. We don't see our struggles with race tied to theirs and often want to keep the discussion separate.

It isn’t how that thread reads at all

We read the thread differently @ReleasetheCrackHen

We?

You and I.

Oh ok! I thought for a minute there it was the royal we.

I thought gender was also an issue in ableism, but happy to be corrected. I believe the exact opposite of what you have interpreted. I was trying to say gender+ethnicity (Biologically born or whatever term we are using these days) discussions might touch on the ethnic aspect but its likely to be on the 'Trans is a separate issue and not relevant here' basis.

I'm sorry but males don't share any experience that I experience as a woman with disability that are important to me when it comes to access to care. Especially not males who don't consider my dignity more important than their identity.