Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

Because it's threatening - how dare women not have children? Worse yet, how dare they not have children yet want to post on MN?

I assume MorningPlatypus is referring to the quote about mums benefitting from advice and help from non-mums without even knowing, with an example of her own

It's very relevant because posters without children can, and have, given help and support to parents, despite not being one themselves. In context it's a lovely post and a good example!

It's virtue signalling and irrelevant to a board for posters who don't have children.

In fairness to PP she was replying the a comment that wasn't really relevant to the thread, but part of the wider theme (on the uselessness of non-mothers), no point in just singling out her comment.

tigger - do you believe or have you found that opinions of childfree/childless women are taken more seriously than those of mums? This is a genuine question, rather than me disagreeing with you. I personally haven't seen that but I recognise that, as a childfree woman, I'm not well-placed to notice it. I sometimes find I am not taken seriously because I'm female, as I am sure we all do!

Of course it's relevant and honestly it's a matter of opinion whether it was virtue signalling. I don't think it was.

It's an example of the support that's given by posters whether or not they have children, and that it's not an 'us and them' - some mums are very against the idea of a Without Children board but they're forgetting they may well have had support from childfree posters.

So therefore in principle why shouldn't a childfree/childless board be supported? That's the wider point I see.

Honestly its like you're spoiling for a bun fight, pecking at posters who actually are in agreement. Your tone is misplaced.

Tiggers post is quite upsetting in tone given shes referrencing me talking about whether or not I count as a mother after having a stillbirth

Time to mute the thread for a few days I think.

This is why we need our own board though. Because someone is happy to make pointed comments comparing me talking about still births and miscarriages to TRAs. Thats pretty disgraceful tbh.

Im also struggling to understand how mothers arent the majority given childfree and childless women make up 3% of the worldwide population (although slightly higher in the UK)

Helpful.

your post basically translates to: “I have zero understanding of the scope and function of the MN talk boards and I haven’t bothered to read the thread but I’m compelled to demonstrate my ignorance on these issues by posting”

That pretty much sums it up.

I am astounded to find out that people like me (without children) were really only tolerated because this site it for parents only. Amazing gatekeeping and defending of privilege. I almost feel as welcome as I did as an EU citizen after the brexit vote. I honestly never realised I was falling short so majorly as a person and woman by failing to have children.

I agree with the others pro the munsnot board: this site started out one way and has now morphed into something much more general. It's surprising to me that for many 'traditional users' a child free board seems to be over the limit and the proverbial hill to die on, but a board for small animals or chickens is fine because at least it's assumed that all the users of those boards are mothers and therefore it's not too niche.

@musixa I have felt denigrated as a mother in various ways. From references to 'baby brain' to school and medical staff referring to me as 'mum', rather than as a person. From impatient people huffing behind me on aeroplanes because it takes longer to disembark with a baby in a sling and a suitcase. To assumptions that I am not interested in politics/culture/science, to abuse for breastfeeding in cafes. Anyway, quite honestly I was also denigrated as a childless woman, so any excuse it seems to dismiss the female sex.

@musixa Oh, and joking references to 'mother's meetings,' 'gossiping mums' and 'hysterical mothers! Any time mothers get together to discuss or protest or be active politically, you can expect all that. I'm sure there are similar epithets for childfree women in the same circumstances.

I'd like to type a short reply to you in two words, but as that'd get me a ban I'll explain myself.

A previous poster said that mums may have benefitted from advice and support from non-mums I was replying to her.

I didn't realise that I would be merely giving another woman the opportunity to get the boot in.

I'm grateful for the mums on here who support the board. I hadn't expected the gratuitous nastiness from other women.

@musixa definitely - I think women are taken less seriously than men (who are thought of as impartial, rational, knowledgeable in all matters) but there is something unique about mothers the way even women dismiss us and see us as support humans

@Catchasingmewithspiders this is not true, I believe I disclosed my miscarriage earlier on this thread so I’d appreciate if you do not make up something like that about me, and kindly ask MN to delete your post, thank you

But you do have a website of your own. The whole mumsnet website with the exception of the Talk boards is mum-focussed.

The boards are not. There’s already a dadsnet board and multiple other boards focussed on non-maternal issues. This would simply be an extension of that which already exists in the Talk boards.

it’s nothing to do with #bekind and plenty of us are feminists regardless of parental status. You may not agree that everyone on the Talk boards including childless and child free posters are welcome but MN disagree with you.

Who is this "MN disagree with you" of which you speak?

I believe she was referencing this quote, from you:

This is what bothers me, it reminds me of the sex and gender stuff: mummies are supposed to be welcoming, nice, and basically pushovers. We’re supposed to put everyone else’s needs first. Our problems aren’t important enough for a website of our own! I bet nobody can even define what a mother even is.

You took the request for a childfree board as an attack against you, forcing you to put 'everyone else's needs first'. You compared it directly to TRA's with your mention of sex and gender 'stuff' and then by using the phrase 'nobody can even define what a mother is', referencing the 'what is a woman' conversation.

Show me the lie.

For goodness sake read the bloody thread and you can see what MN say for yourself!

Mumsnet themselves have repeatedly stated everyone is welcome.

Maybe read the whole thread?

@BodegaSushi basically I initially posted that I was surprised by how hostile people felt against the idea of a space for mums to chat, that people were offended by the very idea there should be such a forum. And then various people responded by saying I must want people kicked off mumsnet, that it’s impossible to define what a mother is anyway, that mums are an oppressor class vs childless people, that we should all just #bekind. Reminds me a LOT of the sex and gender stuff.

The post is not the truth because she is claiming I said she didn’t count as a mother - this is offensive for a number of reasons: firstly because I never started any conversation about who and who isn’t a mother - that was people who just misread my post I guess, secondly because I have already explicitly stated that of course she is a mother so there is no reason to say I believe anything other than that, and thirdly because of my own personal experiences.

It’s disagreement, that’s what happens on MN… There’s no “Mumsnet have decreed x, y, z” you’re allowed to disagree with policy as long as you do so civilly without abusing anyone.

Some people are determined to take offence where none is intended. And ready with the insults when somebody dares to disagree. Anyway it will be up to MN to decide whether a separate space is necessary.

Bizarre

Literally no one on this thread has been against a space for mums to chat or offended by the idea of such a forum.
I mean we’re all literally on just such a forum!