Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

@coeurnoir I think mums do need their own spaces. Most of my mum friends haven't had a full nights sleep for the first few years, and can expect to be up many nights with poorly kids. Breastfeeding still causes people to insult you in public. You are expected to hold down full time work in many cases, though sleep deprived, leaking milk, and worried about whatever is going on with your kids. You are expected to magic up care for your children during school holidays. You can't take too much time off work, so every time your child is ill you worry about losing your job. While doing housework, shopping and running around to kid's activities. Fine if your partner does an equal share, but many parents do it all on their own. You can expect people to tut when your children don't behave well in public, and criticise you for not having time to look your best. Expect to be referred to as 'mum' by health professionals, and overlooked for promotions because of your responsibilities. Of course, the childfree struggle in other ways, and deserve their own space too. But you belittle the challenges of motherhood, which is unfair, I think.

@8state I am well aware of what it is like to be a parent, having been one for over 25 years now.

I still don't get why mums need this special place all to themselves.

I stand by what I said. It is weird and it is discriminatory.

Women without children are just...women without children. Exactly the same as women with children in every other way. As for no sleep...ever been an insomniac?

@coeurnoir You asked what's so special about mums that they deserve a space for themselves. You say you are a parent, so it's odd you dismiss the challenges mothers face. Mums do deserve their own space and so do non-mums, and they can welcome each other into those spaces, too. I would never ask what's so special about childfree people that they need a space for themselves. Clearly they have a set of specific issues and needs. Why not extend the same respect to mums? Insomnia is truly awful, but it isn't the same as just managing to fall asleep and then needing to get up and walk a crying baby up and down the hall for a couple of hours!

@8state probably, unlike many mums today, I really don't think that giving birth means that I am special in anyway. Millions of women have children and babies are born every day.
Why should we be entitled to keep this place to ourselves?
Why is my life more important to society than a childless/childfree woman's life?
Parenting js not some big secret society that must exclude other people.

It makes me really sad to see how mean and exclusionary some people are being on here. Some women who are already regulars on the site would like a space to talk about a niche issue and others not only want to prevent that but want to exclude them.

Just an extension of the usual "you aren't in our club" attitude some groups of women display when you admit to not having children.

Parents are the majority, can't you let those of us who aren't parents have a space to talk to each other about how it feels to be one of the minority.

I personally would hugely appreciate a space where I don't have to explain myself in every thread... not at at exclusion of parents at all, but just safe from the 'you're not one of us' type posters.

I just wanted to say thank you to all the posters on this thread who are mums but who've understood why some of us who dont want children want a "mumsnot" board and supported the idea. You've really helped counterbalance the negativity and without your posts I'd have felt really down and unwelcome.

Who don't want or can't have children I meant to say - without children for any reason.

The thing is, it's not about being "mean" it's about this being a parenting website.

Would you think it's fine for a bunch of white women to join a black women's forum to discuss being white?

Or might you think that black women should be allowed to have their own forum?

@coeurnoir That is not what I am saying. I have repeatedly stated that a board for those without children is fine by me. I don't know how often I need to repeat that. But, whether you are a parent or not, it is completely unreasonable to say that mums have no specific needs and no right to discuss them with others in similar situations.

I wish I could say I'm shocked by how you and other posters on this thread and others have been treated.

Sadly I'm not.

It really does feel like there is a section of women with children who think that the entire bloody world should revolve around them.

Most of us aren't like that. Most of us don't like the smug mummies either.

You’re seriously comparing the challenges arising from the personal choice (in the vast number of cases) to have a child, and thus gain membership of a majority group, with the systemic oppression of minority ethnic women based on their skin colour?

Wow.

Actually in this senario it would be more like black women asking to have a board on a mainly white forum, given that parents are the majority.

I feel like maybe that's already happened though...

But no, being a parent is nothing like being a black woman. Unless of course you are a black woman who is a parent.

I'm sure any black women, parents or not, on the thread will be thrilled by your analogy though.

Would you think it's fine for a bunch of white women to join a black women's forum to discuss being white?

Jesus Christ.

By far one of the most ignorant posts I've read. And I've been here years!

Humf, I don't get it, this place is already huge, so what's the problem, I mean the real problem with having a child free section....I very much doubt it would attract incels as I imagine it would still be largely inhabited by the female of the species, And aren't most incels just very angry male homosapiens?
Yeh people bash mums parents, people bash child-free woman folk to, you know why? Society just loves to bash women, okay sometimes dads get a bashing on here but to be fair it's normally justified, where as on other internet sites it's pretty much woman getting bashed either for being breeders or not being breeders.
It's generally why I like the feminist board and hang out there the most, because if you're a woman regardless of child / child free state it's generally supportive. Just as the relationships threads used to be supportive although I've noticed it's become more dominated by men some nincompoops but thankfully more sensible mumsnetters put the men nincompoops swiftly back in their box.
I always think perspective is important, yes life changes when you have kids, but life also changes when you don't have kids and your friends do; it can be really, really hard from both sides. I believe the most important issue is women child free or not, have a safe supportive place to discuss issues, and of course different issues will arrive for different groups.

@ everyone who replied to me like “nobody is saying…”

What is fundamentally wrong with the idea of a place for mums to chat with each other, without someone keeping an eye on us?

This is what bothers me, it reminds me of the sex and gender stuff: mummies are supposed to be welcoming, nice, and basically pushovers. We’re supposed to put everyone else’s needs first. Our problems aren’t important enough for a website of our own! I bet nobody can even define what a mother even is. Adult female parent, what do any of those words even mean! Besides, imagine what sort of things we might say when we’re not being supervised! Why can’t we just #bekind?!

Maybe some people don’t realise or know just how unusual a place where mums’ opinions on politics, culture, etc are actually welcome and taken seriously. Yes - mums are a majority on MN, because it’s mumsnet - but everywhere else we’re not, which is why MN was started in the first place. “Inclusion” is about there being a place for everybody, it doesn’t mean literally everything for everyone, because that by definition benefits the majority group (which is not mummies).

😆
What is it to you really if they have their own section? Why does it upset you so much? Would it affect your life in any way? You are being extremely petty and I think you need to unpack that.

Seconded

TBH I am probably going to unfollow this thread for a bit.

The aggressive gate keeping and exclusion is making me feel like shit and pushing me back into an unhappy place.

Hopefully I'll feel better when I'm a bit less hormonal.

It is about being mean though isn't it?

Because there is no gate keeping on MN. It isn't a space for Mums only as MNHQ have explained many many times. There are lots of people here who aren't Mums, some of whom are actually targeted groups like those thinking of or planning to become pregnant, then there are the Dads. There are also Childless and Childfree women here already posting all over the site.

How does it change the site if we have a tiny little tucked away board like the Dads, the Grans, the chicken keepers?

It doesn't take anything away from you.

It doesn't change the site (we're here and posting already) just hide the board if it offends you.

I do wonder how many posters are without kids - I think far, far more than you'd think. I don't believe we're a small minority, but a significant portion.

Nobody is saying that there's an issue with having a space for mums.

What we're saying is that MN is not a space that's only for mums. You keep saying you don't want to ban childless posters, but it's quite clear that you do, in fact, want a space where childless people aren't allowed to be present.

MN isn't the space you want. Childless posters are welcome here. We're not keeping an eye on you (wtf), we're just... chatting. Half the time, you probably have no idea whether you're talking to a mum or not.

It isn't some kind of nefarious takeover. We're not trying to hurt you, or spy on you, or oppress you. You don't have to martyr yourselves, deny your own needs, or prostrate yourselves over the #bekind altar to tolerate us, because we're not doing anything wrong by being here.

The tone of some of these later posts has been honestly quite bizarre. Some of you really do seem to think you're an oppressed class whose existence is being threatened by childless women.

What is fundamentally wrong with the idea of a place for mums to chat with each other, without someone keeping an eye on us?

What on earth do you mean by "keeping an eye on us"

No, please don't compare mothers to black women. Please.