Safeguarding on the sex chat thread on the sex board

[AutumnLeavesFallingIntoPlace]

There have been a number of threads about changes to the Sex Board and the standard @MNHQ response is that they're taking feedback on board and ask us to hide the topic, which doesn't answer people's questions. I'd really appreciate some answers specifically about the sex chat thread on the sex board.

The user registration requirement to post on Sex has changed from 3 months to 7 days. It was in place to discourage trolls and predators on the Sex board so it would be helpful to know why that's no longer a concern and 7 days is deemed sufficient.

The sex chat thread exists for users to connect via PM for explicit chat and the thread advises posters they can then move that conversation to platforms like Kik and Telegram. At the moment, MN's advice is to report dodgy PMs; once users move off site this of course no longer applies.

Defence of the sex chat thread seems to be 'it's fine between consenting adults'. MNHQ, please could you tell us what measures you take to ensure participants there are adults? Currently, there is no safety warning and no age verification. How do you intend to keep any underage users from accessing this thread? How can anyone on there know that posters are over 18? You have removed the previously existing safeguards; why is this and will you put any more in place?

There is a risk users might feel safer and more inclined to trust a sex chat hosted by a site like MN; it does feel odd that you haven't made any attempt to counter this by pinning a post reminding users that MN can't vouch for anyone on there, particularly now the three month registration period is gone. Do you intend to do this?

Finally, the thread contains a number of married men who 'aren't getting any at home' and are seeking 'any available female' (direct quotes). Can you confirm this is in the spirit of MN and that you're happy to let it stand?

Thanks, and please don't advise us to hide the sex board again, or even just the sex chat thread, we get that's the MN party line but would really like an answer to the actual questions.

I know there are men here desperate to think there are loads of ‘horny’ women 🤢 chatting on the sex thread. I’ve looked at it and the men must outnumber the women three to one. That’s true of nowhere else on the site. And we do have some pretty vulnerable women here.

Oh @LilyMumsnet is back to tell us to hide the topic. So glad that's been suggested.

Nothing on the 90 day to 7 posting requirement? Just a confirmation that they don't care about safeguarding or anyone's concerns.

It's shit isn't it. So tone deaf.

@mnhq instead of repeatedly telling us to hide the Sex Topic, why don't YOU revert to not including it in Active, like you used to do for years.
We all know why this change was made...

doesn't mean there aren't any!

Thanks @AutumnLeavesFallingIntoPlace

I'm repeating myself from another thread, sorry, but early on the "new improved" [sic] sex chat thread are 3 men looking for FWB. All give their geographical locations and are clearly seeking more than chat, on or off MN. I have also seen a warning given by a regular (male) poster that some "chat" contacts turned out to be men posing as women (what a surprise)

From a thread about the deleted sex chat thread last year-

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet · 22/10/2022 10:15
Hi all - not sure which thread it was, exactly - if you've got any more info we're happy to take a look. We were made aware of disagreements happening on another platform that had made their way here and derailed a thread.

FWIW, we've no problem with a sex chat thread among consenting adults!

Impossible to police who is a "consenting adult" on a forum like this, not even a warning given on the board/thread and now it's in active.

Having been posting and helping for a little while now my take is somewhat different. There are plenty of men and women in happy places who are just trying to be students of their particular significant relationships.

There also seem to be a lot who are really struggling in relationships that seem difficult to transform by just one side (for a myriad of reasons) and as grown-ups are trying to find a way forward rightly or wrongly.

I have seen little of women masquerading as men but of late have seen so much vitriol aimed at men and women alike just because they are happy to be open and seek help and support as well as providing the same.

I for one would appreciate Sex at MN not appearing in Active, people have left the community because of the trolling not only on Sex but in AIBU as well.

Yeah, funny how all these "curvy brunettes, 36DD-23-34, seeking fun flirty chat with a discrete [sic] man, no pics as my hubby cant find out lol" have suddenly materialised on Mumsnet.

I'm not disagreeing that a large number are likely to be males pretending, for whatever reason they want to. Baffles me, but I don't judge. However, there are also a good number of females that post on the threads, and also are looking to chat with people. That's all I'm saying.

The thing is @LilyMumsnet people on MN do want advice on sex sometimes, and they do ask for, and receive, helpful answers from other users. They're just mostly not using the sex topic for these questions because they're well aware of how different the demographic is in there. I've seen on many occasions that an OP will start their post with 'I'm not putting this in the sex topic because...', so you'll find posts about sex in all kinds of topics so that they can fly under the radar, so to speak. I don't see that the sex topic will ever become a place where helpful discussion can take place for the majority of users, who have been quite vocally negative about the recent changes, as you have seen. Changing the registration requirement back to being a long period would help I guess, but not completely solve the problem.

And saying this does not mean I am trying to shame the users who like the sex topic as it is - they would rather fly under the radar too, hidden away from Active. It's absolutely fine to talk about sex in any way you want, but I don't think Mumsnet is the space for this. I can't ever imagine, as a longtime poster myself, that it would ever occur to me to want to chat to anyone in a flirty way, or look to hook up, or find out about men's experiences of sex, however helpful they may be, here on Mumsnet. I'd look for somewhere else online that's geared towards sex discussion or whatever. It's just not what MN is for, and I think it's ok to feel that way without being judged to be a 'pearl-clutcher' or 'sex negative'.

Really disappointed tbh @LilyMumsnet.

Why has the qualifying period to post on the sex board been drastically reduced?

Why is the sex chat thread allowed to continue? Who do you think is going to be attracted to the boards as word gets out about it?

How do you think the Active threads looks to new users? What sort of impression does it give?

What I can only assume are strategic decisions are having a huge impact on the general tone of the board. And not in a good way.

Who is making these decisions?

Since @LilyMumsnet isn't going to answer, to what extent do you think that a thread which invites and encourages married people to hook up with others behind their partners' backs is 'in the spirit of the site' and 'making parents' lives easier'? Out of interest?

I was going to name change for this because I don't want it linked to my other posts, though it isn't me who should feel ashamed. I know posting this will only invite minimising and gaslighting about what I should have felt or done, but here goes.

I was alone in the steam room at the gym one lunchtime. Three men walked in and sat in front of the door. They started a loud conversation about how one of them had made a girl squirt all over his bed at the weekend. They were laughing, swearing, loud, completely aware of my presence but they didn't care. The conversation was obscene, explicit, detailed and degrading. I was frozen, knowing I had to walk right past them in swimwear to get out.

Fine, people can say they had a right to talk about sex, the steam room is just for adults, why couldn't I just ignore it, what's my problem, they didn't mean me any harm, what was I so scared of, why should they curtail their behaviour because of my issues? So I got out of there as quick as I could and now I don't go on my own. It's another place I've learned isn't for me.

I didn't expect Mumsnet, a place I joined years and years ago as an anxious people-pleasing new mum and learned so much about boundaries from, to become that steam room, that gym, that unlit car park, that shortcut you know to avoid. I didn't think it would become somewhere that women aren't allowed to have boundaries.

Anyway, rather than name changing I decided to make this my last post. Deregistering should make my wfh days a lot more productive anyway!

There will always be both men and women wanting to sext/hook up/cheat on a partner. That's life, what people do with their own lives is none of anyone else's business, criminal behaviour aside. Of course if acts like a huge flame to a certain type of moth if there's any hint of the opportunity to talk anonymously to women where sex is involved.

However, there is no requirement for anyone to provide a platform for that to occur. That's a choice Mumsnet has to make, and it would be a very strange one if they decide to allow this type of chat, especially remembering how much angst there was over providing a sex topic in the first place.

There are a number of issues here. Firstly, not all people on MN are parents, not all are in relationships. In this instance, I don't see a problem with this at all. It can be a place where single parents connect also.

For those members who are married, there can be any number of challenges that are faced in a marital situation and a blanket judgement on it isn't possible. This isn't Ashley Madison or Illicit Encounters.

The Sex board can give very helpful advice for people who have no other place to have honest feedback on a number of sex related issues that thier marriage is facing. Until now, it has existed with relatively little judgement, insult or ridicule.

Equally, I understand that the Sex Chat thread can come across as 'unsavory' if you make assumptions about it. However, if you actually look at it, not everyone on there is looking to hook up and have an affair behind their partners back. Sure many partenrs don't know, and that is an issue for the posters themselves to address. However, some people like to talk about sex with other people, without any agenda for it to become reality.

Everyone has different views on sex and sexuality, and it is clear that a number of members of MN don't want to discuss or read about sex issues, for whatever reason. That is also fine. However,, for those members who would like to be more open in their discussions about sex, and connect with others who also want to, the villification and judgement coming from people isn't helpful, welcome, or necessary.

It is true that any part of the internet that tackles issues of sex can be infiltrated by people (often Men, granted) that have less genuine agenda's, but thats the internet for you, and you can't stop it.

We in the UK still live in a very prudish culture, where sex is often not easily talked about. Perhaps if this changed, and was more like The Netherlands, we would have lower rates of teenage pregnancy etc..

Equally, it is better for people to have forums such as this to ask about sex related questions, than trying to educate from watching Porn.

@AutumnLeavesFallingIntoPlace please don't go! I'm so sorry that happened to you, I've experienced similar so I know what it's like. It would be great if you could stay and fight and help stop MN becoming a dodgy steam room. Your posts have been fantastic.

@AutumnLeavesFallingIntoPlace

Your posts have been amazing. I'll be sorry to see you go although I don't blame you. The new 'sexed up' MN is a poor shadow of what it once was.

How many people have actually spent more than five minutes reading the great majority of the posts on the Sex part of MN??

We are here to help and be helped oh and heaven forbid we have a laugh and don't take ourselves too seriously sometimes.

No it's not perfect but take a look at AIBU, that can, at times, be vile.

Very good point. @LilyMumsnet no answer to the changing the registration time from three months ?

@Rieslinger i actually think it’s a fair point that MN on a whole can be horrible.

But while I’m not condoning that there is a difference between M(45) Glasgow, not getting any at home and the bitchy ‘so what you’re saying IS something you didn’t say at all but I’ll pretend you did because I’m a nasty little bully.’

Both should be dealt with, I agree. But actually the former is much easier to address.

Without question, your steam room experience is horrible, and I'm sorry that you were made to feel that way. I can understand totally why it made you intimidated and fearful, and that isn't right.

I don't really see that having a board about Sex on MN is the same, and actually there being a Sex Chat thread is also not the same. Of course there will be some comments by users that are distasteful, and thats unfortunately what the internet does.

However, do you also take up these issues with the Politics board for example? Some of the comments on there are outright racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic etc... and therefore make me feel uncomfortable. Is that helpful to parents? Do they make peoples lives easier? No.

Why do they belong on this MN safe space too?

The problem here is a lot to do with peoples attitudes to sex, which can bring o ut the best and worst in people.

A site that allows discussion and opinion is always going to give a plethora of subjects and opinions, and I don't think anyone would want an overly sensored siite where someone makes the decision to over filter and control what you see. That is a dangerous road.

It is easy to avoid reading the pages and threads you don't like, or that make you uncomfortable. I gave up on the Politics board as an example, because it used to wind me up. I don't however, choose to go an troll people on it, or start being abusive to the people posting there.

Please don't take this as me dismissing your concerns, and I am certainly not doing down what happened to you in the steam room. That is not pleasant at all, but MN having a Sex board isn't, in my view, quite the same.

The new 'sexed up' MN....oh come on. The board has been there for years without issue. It is only an issue because it showed up in Active.

You could look at the Politics or AIBU thread and call it the new 'Facist' MN if you selected the right threads for your arguent.

@AutumnLeavesFallingIntoPlace

I'm really sorry that happened to you and thank you for posting. It's a reminder of what is still sadly lived experience for too many women. Please don't dereg.

It is only an issue because it showed up in Active.

Plus the hook up thread and the 90 day down to 7 thing.

Understood. But again, why take it out on the posters themselves?